Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Be very suspicious of any buyer or seller who wants to transact via Western Union or certified "cheque." These two phrases almost always seem to accompany a scam. I'll re-post this message periodically to get warnings live on the Classified page.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 21, 2009, 8:52 AM)
Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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I've heard about the scams through Western Union, but the company I work for accepts certified cheques all the time. What are the other payment options to be considered, if you don't happen to be dealing escrow through a DZ or rigger?
Not sure if I should post this type of question here. Feel free to move or delete :)
Re: [skydude2000] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Lots of "certified cheques" are being used by scammers that are either stolen checks or copies of checks that bounce since they are fraudulent. PayPal is a decent option since you can pay by credit card and use the insurance your Credit Card company offers to back the transaction.
Re: [PhreeZone] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Or,if you do transact via certified check, don't send the item until you're certain -- absolutely certain -- that your bank has authenticated the check. Call them and ask them specifically about it. These guys rely on the loopholes in the global financial system for their scams to succeed, and checks represent one of those holes.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 20, 2009, 9:48 PM)
Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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What if I'm the one sending the check? I wouldn't expect anyone to accept a personal cheque either. So what's best? Asking my DZO to make the transfer, and then hand him a wad of cash or clear up the account with him by direct payment or usual means?
How would HE make that transfer, generally, just out of curiosity?
Fake Shipping Agent or Money Order Scam If you are selling an item (especially a motorcycle, automobile, or other high dollar item) you will get e-mail attempting this scam. The scammer will attempt to purchase your bike with a money order. They will want you to take a money order for an amount larger than the purchase price for the bike. This scam works well because you are always thinking "how is he going to get the bike without paying for it", but the scammer isn't even after the bike! He is after your money! This scam is designed to get you to cash a counterfeit money order or cashiers check..
This is a typical scenario of how the scam works:
You have a bike for sale. You are asking $12000.
The scammer e-mails you with an offer to buy the bike. He may ask for photos of ask about the condition of the bike. He offer you a $11000. (A little fake haggling to make it sound good)
You reply with the information he requested and agree to sell for $11000.
He says he will purchase the bike. He asks if a money order is ok.
You agree to accept the money order.
He will give you some excuse for having wanting to send a money order for a larger amount. The most common excuse is that he has a friend who lives in the USA and owes him $15000. And because he can't easily cash the money order in his country he would like you to cash it and send the remainder to him or his "shipping agent" via Western Union.
This sounds good to you. You are thinking, "get a money order, cash it, and send the remainder. Wow, he must trust you with the a lot of money". You agree to his offer.
He wants your phone number and address. He wants to call you to verify the information.
You provide a phone number and address.
He calls you using a system designed for those who are deaf. You speak only to the operator and she relays the info. (They almost always use this type of service). On the call you can verify the address and terms etc.
The deal is all but done. You wait for a money order. It arrives FedEx overnight.
You also receive an e-mail reminder to get to the bank and cash it. The e-mail also gives you the address of Western Union locations near you.
You deposit $11000 from the money order in your account. You get $4000 to send to the shipper. You go to Western Union and send the money. You send $3995 and give Western Union $5.00 in fees. You e-mail the code to the "shipper".
With everything complete you wait for the shipping agent to come by and pick up the bike. A week will pass, maybe two weeks.
Soon you get a letter from your bank. They have charged your account $15000 plus $20 service fee because the money order was returned to them unpaid and marked counterfeit. You check with Western Union. The money was picked up and their is no way to recover it.
The final tally: The bank Western Union The Scammer You + $20.00 + $5.00 + $3995.00 - $4020.00
Re: [skydude2000] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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In Reply To
What if I'm the one sending the check? I wouldn't expect anyone to accept a personal cheque either. So what's best? Asking my DZO to make the transfer, and then hand him a wad of cash or clear up the account with him by direct payment or usual means?
How would HE make that transfer, generally, just out of curiosity?
This may be just me, but I'd deal through Paypal exclusively. Even if somebody doesn't have a Paypal account, it's pretty easy for them to make the payment with a major credit card. Then you have some actual protection.
Even then, ask the standard questions: Where do you jump? Who's your rigger? And then contact those people to make sure the one who contacted you is telling the truth.
Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Creditcards aren't as common over here as in the States and opening a paypal account with a bank account as money source takes a while. So while I usually prefer paypal, over here bank transfers are sometimes faster and often cheaper. And just as safe (for the seller anyway). I've also accepted a cheque once, funny as the check fees cost the buyer as much as the freefly suit I was selling Money orders, Western Union and stuff, never.
So far, I haven't been burned with skydiving stuff, although I did receive a surprise hybrid triathlon once that was listed as a regular triathlon (or rather not specifically as a hybrid). It pays to be smart about the person you're dealing with, after a bit you'll pick out most scams immediately by just reading the first email. My tip: don't be afraid of dealing with foreigners or with people who's English isn't that great, but mind the warning lights in your head
Re: [j_ung] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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How can be untrustworthy someone who will send with pleasure the money via Western Union to unknow man? Such guy has to be naive or has to trust you as no other, but if you hold cash 10 minutes after, you can not be scamed. I just want to want say: Western Union transaction is dangerous only for buyer not for seller. Anyway better way is to disable sellers without filled up profile.Sorry for my English Stan
Re: [Stanley76] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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Stan you are correct - except in these cases the scammers request to GET PAID through WU - and like you said, cash in hand, the buyer (in this case a legit person) is screwed.
Re: [Stanley76] Buyer Scams: Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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How can be untrustworthy someone who will send with pleasure the money via Western Union to unknow man? Such guy has to be naive or has to trust you as no other, but if you hold cash 10 minutes after, you can not be scamed. I just want to want say: Western Union transaction is dangerous only for buyer not for seller. Anyway better way is to disable sellers without filled up profile.Sorry for my English Stan
The fake buyer won't wire you money through Western Union, he'll send you a counterfeit Western Union money order or a fake cheque, which will be made out for far more than the agreed upon price. He will then ask you to wire the excess to a "shipper" or somebody else via Western Union or some other similar service.
Re: [j_ung] Western Union and Certified "Cheques"
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The idea of working through paypal is great because you have some assurance, but I tried to set up an account to buy some gear through that last week. It wouldn't recognize my bank transit #, and I wouldn't have been able to set it up with my credit card because the card company wouldn't approve a $3500 limit, even though I had the money in my savings account.
So for me the buyer, paypal was more of a hassle than I wanted to deal with.
Money orders, Western Union and stuff, never. 
