Search for
 

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?

Forums: Community: Skydivers with Disabilities:
Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing

 

 


peter_d


Jumps
License
In sport
:  
:  
:  

Feb 19, 2009, 3:50 AM

Post #1 of 17 (967 views)

Registered: Feb 19, 2009
Posts: 3

Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing Can't Post

I'm a paraplegic with a T6 SCI (that's an injury just below my chest), I have no movement in my legs but I really want to start solo skydiving on the AFF (Accelerated Freefall) course - my problem is that I have not got a clue how to land.

I have contacted the BPA (British Parachuting Association) and they have told me that there is no regulation that says that I can't do it, I just need to find an airfield that will throw me out of a plane and until I figure out a way to land that won't happen.

I know that amputees go skydiving but they don't have their legs in the way, the BPA have never heard of anyone in a wheelchair going solo before - any ideas?


chuckakers

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 4000
: D 10855
: 23 years


Feb 19, 2009, 6:07 AM

Post #2 of 17 (951 views)

Registered: May 8, 2002
Posts: 1466

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

You might try this link as a starting point for info

http://www.jagworksdesign.com/...skydive%20manual.htm


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Feb 19, 2009, 5:13 PM

Post #3 of 17 (925 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

hi Peter

There are a couple of 'pioneers' on here who have done a lot of reasearch into the possible problems you may face and ways to overcome them.

I have linked the two main threads below.

It seems that the UK (where Im from) may be behind the US and other countries in developing access to teh sport for paraplegic individuals however there is no reason you cannot be the first....

My personal advice *I am not an instructor and these are just my personal thoughts* would be to maybe find a good progressive Dropzone that is not too far from you, and do a bunch of tandems there.

or do a couple at least to see if you really want to take up the sport.

You would need to speak to the CCI (chief instructor) at the DZ you approached and see what, if anything they could do for you.

It would take experienced AFF instructors and a lot of commitment on your part, but it has been done by others abroad so it IS possible...


It comes down to how much you want it and also who will be prepared to put their neck on the line to offer it to you.
What area are you from?

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread


(This post was edited by humanflite on Feb 19, 2009, 5:13 PM)


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Feb 19, 2009, 5:16 PM

Post #4 of 17 (919 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [humanflite] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

To add/

once you have read all the threads and the full manual linked the post above mine. You will see that the technique has been to use a large strap to pull the persons legs up on landing, to prevent them getting damaged by being caught under the person.

however you would not have anywhere near as much leeway as a student who had the use of their legs in biffing in early landings, as landing on your butt demands some element of control in order that it doesnt hurt!!

How much do you weigh if you dont mind me asking?


peter_d


Jumps
License
In sport
:  
:  
:  

Feb 20, 2009, 1:04 PM

Post #5 of 17 (886 views)

Registered: Feb 19, 2009
Posts: 3

Re: [humanflite] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the links there guys, they were helpful. Reading them made me realise that I'm rushing into this a little fast and I need to get some tandem jumps done first to make sure that I enjoy the experience.

Looking at the way some of the guys have been landing does make me optmistic about the whole thing though.

I weigh 12 stone and I live in Liverpool, I'm going to start looking for airfields tomorrow but I have been told by a friend who also has a spinal cord injury that he has done some tandem jumps in Langar so I'll start looking there.

I'm going to keep on researching this but like I said I am feeling optimistic about the whole thing.

(This post was edited by peter_d on Feb 20, 2009, 1:05 PM)


Premier wmw999

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 2000
: D 6296
: 34 years


Feb 20, 2009, 1:08 PM

Post #6 of 17 (883 views)

Registered: Jul 23, 2002
Posts: 13379

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Try sending a PM ("Messages" on the side here) to Ripple. She's a UK woman with some degree of paralysis who's done some tandems in the UK as well.

Wendy W.


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Feb 20, 2009, 2:58 PM

Post #7 of 17 (875 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thanks for the links there guys, they were helpful. Reading them made me realise that I'm rushing into this a little fast and I need to get some tandem jumps done first to make sure that I enjoy the experience.

Looking at the way some of the guys have been landing does make me optmistic about the whole thing though.

I weigh 12 stone and I live in Liverpool, I'm going to start looking for airfields tomorrow but I have been told by a friend who also has a spinal cord injury that he has done some tandem jumps in Langar so I'll start looking there.

I'm going to keep on researching this but like I said I am feeling optimistic about the whole thing.


Yes, Langar will certainly do you a tandem Im sure.
I have heard they have done quadraplegic tandems before and also a 94 year old lady!! so you should be no problemo.

As for the AFF, like you say, baby steps, do lots of research, and see where that takes you.


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Feb 20, 2009, 3:01 PM

Post #8 of 17 (870 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [humanflite] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, a great source of information would be if you sent a PM to the user gimpboogie

Here is her profile

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=gimpboogie;

She has overcome lots of hurdles and would be able to give you lots of tips


gimpboogie

Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
: 222
:  
: 2 years


Feb 25, 2009, 4:38 AM

Post #9 of 17 (804 views)

Registered: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 184

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
DITTO TO EVERYTHING SAID ABOVE.

THEN PLS CONTACT LONNIE, [HERE ON FORUMS-HE'S DEFINITELY THE MOST EXPERIENCED in all of us para's in landing-& yet a dufferebt landing style then the rest of us-NOTE WE ALL GOT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT LANDING STYLES].

OK, got the support of DZ CRITICAL.

AFF instructor EXPERIENCED in TANDEMS WITH DISABLED ia almost i would say a must-unless they allready did teach a para to dive- i.e. FuzzyDave [on the forums], he taught me along with Angus-n maybe this was his 1st [BEER DAVE! Sly] PARA-TEACHING learning experience.

YES ITS GING TO TAKE

1) RESERACH-TALK TO THESE PEOPLE-WATCH THE VIDEOS OF PARA'S DOING BASE, -THEY ARE OUT THERE WATCH SOME ON BRIDGE DAY AND LOOK FOR RUSSEL-another prara-THESE GUYS CAN TELL YOU MORE ABOUT LANDINGS THEN ANYONE ELSE.

2) WATCH the few videos there are out there of these base [sorry- i KNOW THIS IS NOT a base forum- this is NOT INVITATION to go do it, OR even encouragement-opposite- do NOT GO DO BASE NOW!].
bit i speak of these fellows for they know-best!].

WATCH the videos i got up on youtube extremewheelchairs is the nickname there.
lots from the 1st tandem to the 12th tandem progression, wind tnnel testing, building of the FFreeFly pants, the knee braces, [both of which still need modifications-are not set the way i need-want them to be].

WATCH the videos of the other paras doing tandems, talk to them on these forums-scan through this forum n look for those doing there 1st tandem as paras n talk to them-what went wellm what went badly-i.e WATCH THE VIEEO OF THE TANDEM WITH A PARA WHERE THEY PARA'S LEG STRAPS GET STUCK N DOOR OF PLANE n NO ONE HAS A HOOK KNIFE to hand to the TM.its freaken scary-BUT if you PLAN FOR IT ALL,
and your instructor plans for it all [we got a knife taped to the side of the doorway now, AND i jump alone with a knife-if my leg is bleeding profusely on a bad landing or a water landing i want to cut off my eg panel/crotch panel on my pants-you will know what we mean when you talk to Peter in SA, HE IS ANOTHER PIONEER in this sport of para's skydiving alone.

me, n dale, n you eentually perhaps will be the few who were never skydivers [oops sorry dale did a few dives] before paralysis.
lonnie and some others parhaps [lonnie is so respected in all worlds of diving that his advice on any skydiving aspect for apara is needed-ofcourse i doudt he does a lot of high altitue FF jumps -not his style Laugh but otherwise ALL aspects of canopy control n landings HE IS THE EXPERT as a para diver].


SO WATCH, TALK, N GET THE DZ INSTRUCTOR WHO AGREES TO GO THE DISTANCE WITH YOU WATCH THIS ALL ALSO-SOME HE MAY HAVE I.E. SOME BRIDGE DAY JUMPS OR OTHER PARAS EITHER DONE THEM IN TANDEMS OR WATCHED IT-

THEN PREPARE!

I mean PREPARE!

its said

PLAN THE JUMP
N
JUMP THE PLAN.

if it isnt going like planned
STOP.
DO NOT JUMP OUT or move forward.
I MEAN IT.

this is not a stroll in the park,
this isnt 'murder ball' -rugby in wheelchairs,
this isnt fencing,
this is life n death split second decisions,
n abilities to make them...

no meaning to discourage you
I ENCOURAGE TO REAEARCH AND DECIDE WITH INFORMATIVE MIND AS TO WHAT YOU WILL DO NEXT

N IF DIVING IS GOING TO BE IT!

WELCOME TO THE BLUE SKIES!!!!


ok got to go, will talk more later when can.

thanks for writing,
keep on sharing with us the progress,
snags along the way.

ooh and also maybe find TK in FL
for your AFF instructor to talk to along with Angus at Parachute school of toronto [google it-it will show uo] :)
n FuzzyDAVE.

AND TRY TO GET A SUPER EDXPERIENCED ACCURACRY CHAMPION-NATIONAL LEVELOR BETTER- to teach you a course on canopy control before your 1ST AFF.

kusit will help SO MUCH.

n try to get in a tunnel, IF AT ALL [OSSIBLE
set up your instructors-get the pANts/gear you think is ok for you-with instrutors help,
do a harness hanging rest to make sure your ok with FJC mmaterial EMERGENCY PROCEDURES [ kus if your not-the tunnel wont ,atter-it matters not if you can FF like a bat out of hell if you mind lock as altitude eats up on you n you forget Emergency procedures].

do ALL THAT 1ST THEN GO TO TUNNEL

NOW, being the 1st in UK, to try this para diving alone,
yiu MIGHT GET A SPONSOR of SOME SORT-EITHER SPORT ORG. TO DISABILITIES or some help from tunnel-perhaps a team training rate-15% OFF would be a great help but remember to ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR HELPERS IN YIOUR BEER RULES Wink

n NOT US INTERNET HELPERS-we do this without the beer-they would break in transport-but i'd like it if you give the beer rules serious thoght at yoru DZ, with ALL WHO HELP in person.

it keeps the spirit of hel[ing, going and people really appreciate it!!!!!!!

check out'beer rules' in search here.

like i said, i gonna shut up now n go on with the day.

cya
-gimpboogie



Distabled

Australia
Jumps
License
In sport
: 60
: A 
: 10 years


Mar 8, 2009, 5:44 AM

Post #10 of 17 (748 views)

Registered: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 76

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Peter, I have done 4 jumps as a para and will have my A licence in the next month so if you want some up to date info email me dale@daleelliott.com or contact me on skype, username 'daleelliott'

TO JUMP SOLO AS A PARAPLEGIC
Three points, you will need 90 degree leg braces, a pair of custom made pants which have heaps of padding in the butt and a system to pull up and connect your legs to the chest strap for landing.

WITHOUT THESE 3 THINGS YOU WILL KILL YOURSELF! (eventually! lol)

It is of course, far more complicated then normal so i advise you do heaps of research, you will need to convince your AFF instructors to jump with you and to do this you need info.

Cheers

D


(This post was edited by Distabled on Mar 8, 2009, 5:46 AM)


gimpboogie

Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
: 222
:  
: 2 years


Mar 9, 2009, 12:35 PM

Post #11 of 17 (704 views)

Registered: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 184

Re: [Distabled] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

a little info on the leg braces.

please do not think 90 degrees is 'the formula'
it isnt.

for me, 90 degrees would have me backsliding so much there is no chance to do anything other then what i saw Dale doing in his last video-potato chipping the farther he went into affa,.
i can F for 20 secs or so without any troubles without leg braces for that matter, but with my legs stuck at 90 degrees i will 'die' without my instructor deploy fior me-well i wont die necessarily because the AAD will deploy for me just depends on what body position i may end up by then-fli[pping around like in a w3ashing machine in FF isnt that easy ior safe for the instructor to keep up to.
Angus can affa like anyone,
he's been in the 400way world record-its a tough thing to get invited to even try to fit in there.
he can be the point man, oor the last one to get in, it dont matter Angus can outfly anyone i know of in tracking-he has world record, over 10,000 jumps over 72 hrs FF time, jumping about 30 yrs now...
and HE wanst comfortable with the amount of issues...

so, i want to stress that DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM PEOPLE LIKE ME N DALE OR ANY OTHER PARALYZED DIVER BEFORE CHECKING IT OUT WITH PEOPLE LIKE ANGUS OR FUZZYDAVEA.
PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE,A GOT THE EXPERIENCE!

im sorry it sounds harsh

but this is NOT A SPORT TO TASKE LIGHTLY,

yes i believe Dale can do it, do i believe every para can do it?
NO.
there IS a limit to everything.

WE ARE NOT THE EXPERTS.
(we being the 'students' here... its those instructors who are the experts- and one with a few thousand jumps is not one who can take on a project like this without putting you at risk...
all i know is that i wont trust my life in the hands of anyone other then someone like Angus, TK in the USA, and im not familiar with other countries...
so find the equivalent of such instructors in BARITAIN...
IF THEY CANT BE FOUND, EVEN MORE CARE IS TO BE TAKEN.

I THINK ITS SERIOUS FOR US-STUDENT DIVERS-TO GIVE ADVICE.

IM LEARNING THAT AS I GO,A
I DO NOT EVEN CALL MYSELF A SKYDIVER YET
DESPITE OVER 30 MIN. FF TIME
ND OVER 100 LANDINGS WITH AS PARACHUTE OVER ME [AONLYBROKE MY ANKLE ONCE-BUT NOT WITH AS SKYDIVING CANOPY OVER ME-TOO SHORT CANOPY RIDE-I DIDNT HAVE TIME TO FLARE PROPPERLY IT WAS ABOUT A 5 SEC CANOPY RIDE)

so aplease be carefula.

and please notice that the experienced para's are LONNIE AND RUSSELL....
IF IT ISNT FROM THEM, OR INSTRUCTORS WHO HAVE WORKED WITH PARA'S....

BE CAREFUL
ITS YOUR LIFE, NOT OURS.


I REFUSE TO GIVE 'ASDVICE' NOW THAT I KNOW IM THE IDI*T KID OF A IDI*T FATHER (DESPITE HOW MUCH SOME PRESIDENTS CLAIM THAT TITLE LOL)

ALL I NOW KNOW,
IS THAT I REALLY KNOW NOTHING.
ASLL I KNOW HOW TO DO IS FALL AND FIND MY WAY BASCK TO THE GROUND WITHOUT KILLING MYSELF
UNTIL THE DAY COMES THAT I MESSED THAT UP SALSO...
JUST HOPE IT ISNT DURING SKYDIVING.


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Mar 9, 2009, 5:34 PM

Post #12 of 17 (695 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [gimpboogie] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Good advice there.

For ur info there are AFF instructors in the UK (not Baritain but Britain Wink) who have 7 -> 10,000 plus skydives.

One of them teaches at my DZ and is really at the top of his game.

Theses guys have some really amazing bodyflying skills and can catch pretty much any AFF student they have ever jumped with, and thats a lot.

BUT, a big but.... Im not sure if they would take on the challenge of teaching AFF to a paraplegic, mainly because they think safety first and I guess have no experience in this area...

The AFF instructors you find at your DZ would certainly need to think it over for a while and see what they could come up with.

As mentioned, I reckon get a few tandems under your belt, make your intentions known at the DZ... and see how it goes from there.

If that DZ will not offer a course, move to the next DZ!!!

But it really does depend on how much you want it I would say. You will need to be very persistent.

And I havent seen a reply in this thread from you for a while so ..... who knows Crazy


gimpboogie

Canada
Jumps
License
In sport
: 222
:  
: 2 years


Apr 23, 2009, 9:03 PM

Post #13 of 17 (551 views)

Registered: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 184

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive -you still out there> [In reply to] Can't Post

hey, if your still on the hunt, chasing your dream give us an update... please.

it would be good to hear from you....
even if things haven't gone the way you had hoped/expected.
It's ALL a learning experience and we all learn from reading what's going on with others.

Did you find a tandem master?
did you do any tandems?
how about the DZ hunting, if not a tandem yet?

and if you did, but weren't able to jump, would you mind explaining what happened, why etc?

I think it's IMPORTANT info for others following in these flight paths.

this is a sport where all info is relevant.

(that's why the incident forums evenUnsure)

Don't get me wrong, if things went sh*t for sideways and you didn't get to jump- I'm sorry to hear that... Unsure, but sharing with us why that was would be a real good lesson for others coming on the boards looking for similar info.

thanks for posting back...
if you do.


peter_d


Jumps
License
In sport
:  
:  
:  

Jun 28, 2009, 10:40 AM

Post #14 of 17 (425 views)

Registered: Feb 19, 2009
Posts: 3

Re: [gimpboogie] Paraplegic Skydive -you still out there> [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry that I've been absent from here for a while, that was rude of me.

Here's how things have progressed so far...

Early on in March I booked myself in for a tandem jump at Langar airfield, I went down all hyped up only for it to get cancelled because of heavy winds. I was really eager to do it so I booked in two weeks later only for it to get cancelled again because of the weather. After two cancellations I decided to leave it for a while so I could concentrate on finishing my degree.

Fast forward to last Wednesday and I finally got to the jump. It was everything I thought it would be and more!! I got such a massive adrenaline rush on the FF and it is something that I could definitely get used to. Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTxATnZTScA

I spoke to an experienced instructor there who said that he would be willing to teach me the AFF if I can research a safe way to do it.

So I plan to start putting together some ideas on paper now so I can show him. Although I still really want to do this I'm not sure when i'll find the time but I really think it can be done, and I want it so much.


Andy9o8

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 1200
: D 
: 34 years


Jun 28, 2009, 1:25 PM

Post #15 of 17 (413 views)

Registered: May 15, 2005
Posts: 9290

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive -you still out there> [In reply to] Can't Post

There's an Australian paraplegic jumper who goes by the screen name Distabled on here. He's posted some very interesting (and inspirational!) threads about his own recent training. Give them a read!


humanflite


Jumps
License
In sport
: 760
: C 99999
: 4 years


Jun 29, 2009, 9:27 AM

Post #16 of 17 (394 views)

Registered: Dec 6, 2006
Posts: 507

Re: [peter_d] Paraplegic Skydive -you still out there> [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sorry that I've been absent from here for a while, that was rude of me.

Here's how things have progressed so far...

Early on in March I booked myself in for a tandem jump at Langar airfield, I went down all hyped up only for it to get cancelled because of heavy winds. I was really eager to do it so I booked in two weeks later only for it to get cancelled again because of the weather. After two cancellations I decided to leave it for a while so I could concentrate on finishing my degree.

Fast forward to last Wednesday and I finally got to the jump. It was everything I thought it would be and more!! I got such a massive adrenaline rush on the FF and it is something that I could definitely get used to. Check it out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTxATnZTScA

I spoke to an experienced instructor there who said that he would be willing to teach me the AFF if I can research a safe way to do it.

So I plan to start putting together some ideas on paper now so I can show him. Although I still really want to do this I'm not sure when i'll find the time but I really think it can be done, and I want it so much.


Well done on doing your first skydive Wink
It seems like you enjoyed it....!

Thats also great news that an AFF instructor at the DZ will take you on.

As above, read this

http://www.jagworksdesign.com/...skydive%20manual.htm

You could print out the zip file contents and send it to the AFFi, or go and visit him and discuss it.

Get some email contacts of people on here that are listed above... get in touch with them

It all depends how much you want it, but it can be done.. time is a thing that is short for all of us!!!

pm username distabled

on here (Dale Elliott). Im sure he will offer you some advice


KathleenL

United States
Jumps
License
In sport
: 226
: C 37482
: 3 years


Jun 30, 2009, 8:44 AM

Post #17 of 17 (364 views)

Registered: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 192

Re: [Distabled] Paraplegic Skydive - Ideas on Landing [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to see you on this thread Dale. I was about to refer to your website.

 
 
 


Search for (options)





Other sites in our network:
BASE Jumping | Rock Climbing

NameMedia, Inc
Outdoor Sports