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Skydiving Gear and Equipment: Main and Reserve Parachutes: Performance Designs : Vengeance : Reviews: Pages: 1 2 [>] [>>]

has contributed 18 reviews

(Review ID:2162)

24 of 48 people found the following review helpful:

Airlocks on a 170 at only 1.17

Rated by: brinary01 on 2009-04-08 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Great fun to fly
Cons: Freaking pain to down it

Ok I got about 40 jumps on this canopy not much but I want to put in my two cents about the airlocks as this is the most distinct feature on this canopy and what really sets it apart from the other canopies I have flown, including Saber 2 190/170, and spector 230/210, and a few others not worth mentioning. Before buying this canopy I read a lot about it, and about the airlock technology. Three big issues mentioned downing the canopy on windy days, cutaways, and packing oh and openings I will address this separate.
Cutaway: well I had to chop it once it was diving when I cut it away and it did not go far and winds I think were around 8 to 10 knots that day I recovered it with no problem but this is a forgiving DZ if there were trees I would have been paying a tree service to get it back but in no way did it fly any more than other cutaways I have seen.
Packing: My canopy had about 400 jumps on it when I got it, I don’t know what every one is speaking of when they talk about it being hard to pack. To me it is not more difficult to pack than any other canopy of equal size in a equal size container, I am packing into a Jav J4 so it is going into a d-bag made for it. It is at the point were it is much easier to pack, but the issue is supposed to be with getting air out of it this has never been a problem.
Downing the canopy: this is the pain about this canopy windy it is a real pain, I don’t bother trying to stow my breaks on a windy day because I will end up fighting the canopy, I don’t bother trying to daisy chain the lines on a windy day because I will end up fighting the canopy. I get to the tail asap and shake it to get as much air out as possible, stick the toggles in there holders, and pick the lines up neatly pickup my d bag n pc then move out. On low wind days if I twist and down it on it’s side just right it will land on the ground up side down (still fully inflated) in this case I do the same as above but stow my breast, and daisy chain my lines.
Openings: not as bad as I had read but still kind of funky not bad at all if I fly the opening, and soft I have opened in a track and it did not slam me if not flown some times it is fine most of the time it opens in a dive, which can be a problem if you have line twist, and opened kind of low like below 3000 in my experience this was enough to chop it as I was loosing a lot of altitude quick I do not blame the canopy design for this as most of the issues that led to the cutaway could have been prevented and were a result of me being in a rush to pack, and opening lower than I planed to. So to summarize a lot of fun to fly, and other than downing the canopy, I like the airlock design, but as I jump in Spain it is quite windy very often, and I will replace it with something similar in a non air locked design if the right deal comes along. Hope this helps anyone considering this canopy.

The only reason I do not recommend it is because it is such a pain to down and sense there are so many canopies that are similar with out airlocks I would say go that way first, but if the price is right you wont be disappointed with the flight.

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(Review ID:2034)

0 of 8 people found the following review helpful:

Vengeance 135

Rated by: nicksoccer20 on 2008-08-02 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Flare, Riser Pressure, Airlocks
Cons: Openings!!!!!

I have approximately 30 jumps on my Vengance 135 now. The openings can be some what unpredictable! I have had the best openings i have ever had with any canopy on this thing. I have had some of the worst openings I've ever had(IE opening in line twist and spinning up). The canopy opens consistantly with regards to smoth and soft, it has yet to hurt me because of a hard opening.

I dare say that I have even jumped this thing with my wingsuit (Ghost) and I have still not had to cut it away, possibly luck????

I'm not big on swooping so I dont have much of an oppinion with regards to that. It has lighter front riser pressure then the stilleto, a bit more oversteer, and a lot longer recovery arc. Thats about the extent of what ive noticed. I really never do more then 90 degree turns with it on landing!

Well over it is a great canopy fun to fly as long as you can get it to open without chopping it!

PS. The airlocks are amazing in turbulance I cruse right through it!

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(Review ID:1325)

22 of 31 people found the following review helpful:

Airlocks ROCK!

Rated by: SCR10480 on 2005-07-20 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Incredible flare, and "finger tip" control.
Cons: Only a couple...

I have been waiting to add my review of the Vengeance, until I had a few jumps on it. Not that I don't appreciate the reviews written by folks that have made only 10 or 20 demo jumps on a canopy, I do...it's just that the "personality" of airlocked parachutes don't fit the common mold. Even though the Vengeance is often compared to the awesome Stiletto (what elliptical isn't)? I have found them to be, at best, distant cousins.

If you have read the other well written reviews here, you've noticed a common theme. Openings with the VN require immediate attention, (from line stretch to slider stow) if you want to have anything that resembles an on heading opening. If you try the "shoulders level, hips flat and feet together" routine, you're gonna get a very scenic ride! One really needs to be on the rears as soon as the Vengeance is out of the sack.

Once your Vengeance is out of the bag, and you have it settled down...Oh Baby! What a ride! I disagree with the reviews claiming that the Stiletto turns faster. My stiletto needs to be "told" to turn...my Vengeance seems to read my mind. I have found the VN to be both more responsive, and quicker to enter turns and dives than my ST. Riser pressure is also noticeably lighter on the VN compared to the ST. And as noted in other reviews, the VN will continue to dive, until told to do something else...where my Stiletto will recover on it's own.

When it comes to stability? Well, the Vengeance is in a class by itself. I jump in the "High Desert" of Central Oregon, and we get some pretty nasty air during summer. I've had my ST do some really weird stuff in the trash, and even had it "drop" me a few times. My VN on the other hand, gives me a rougher ride, but is always on top and immediately controllable.

Yes, in moderate ground winds airlocks can be somewhat embarrassing to gather...just follow Germain's instructions, and get over yourself! Look at it this way: If your friends aren't teasing you about "folding your air mattress" they will find something else!

Airlocks: "Rock and Roll is here to stay" (Brian Germain)

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(Review ID:1224)

14 of 21 people found the following review helpful:

Great glide, wide performance range

Rated by: SkydiveMO on 2005-03-11 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Great glide for long swoops
Cons: Goofy openings

When I was looking to move into the world of ellipticals I had my heart set on an air locked canopy. I liked the idea of a canopy that resisted collapse in turbulence and retained its shape at slower speeds of flight. The choice was between Performance Design’s Vengeance and Big Air Sports’ Samurai. I test jumped the Samurai 136 first and found it very responsive to control inputs and fast in flight and landing. The recover arc was much longer then a Stiletto but I believe slightly shorter then the Vengeance. The Samurai was a little too responsive for my abilities at the time so I tried the Vengeance next. The Vengeance 135 was more subdued in toggle and riser response and tamer in its flight characteristics. Toggle turns are slow initially but after a couple rotations can match or exceed a Stiletto’s turn rate. The big difference that sets both the Samurai and Vengeance apart though is the glide. On a long spot all I have to do is unstow the breaks and pull slightly on the rear risers to flatten out the canopies glide angle and it will cover some real distance. The only canopy I’ve found that can out glide my Vengeance is the new Katana, which if it were available in a 135 yet I would highly consider. Another characteristic of the Vengeance is a long recovery arc, much longer then a Stiletto and nearly as long as my cross-braced canopy. I have had the most difficulty getting the timing right for front riser carves with my Vengeance. It dives a great deal before it starts to plain out. After a great deal of practice and some not so pretty landings I’ve started to become consistent swooping. Whether making a conservative straight in approach or cranking a 270 front riser turn the Vengeance blew away the Stiletto 135 and 150s I have jumped in both distance and flare power at the end of the swoop. After touching down if there is just a little wind the canopy will remain inflated and flying begging me to squeeze out that last bit of distance on the next jump.

My only complaints about my Vengeance are that the openings are just plain awkward and that on windy days canopy collection can be a chore. With the airlocks the cells do not inflate in a consistent order and the canopy does a lot of seeking before finally opening off heading. The openings are slow and comfortable and thanks to a long line set the off heading opening simply means a quick 90 or 180 turn that is easily stopped with rear riser input. Another characteristic caused by the long line set used on the Vengeance is over steer. I find often that coming out of a turn I have to counter steer as I am consistently overshooting my target. Like the dive this is all about the timing. My other complaint is that collecting the canopy on a windy day can be a chore. The airlocks are a dream in the air but a real pain on the ground. Following Brian Germain’s tips on collecting an air locked canopy really helps though.

I have made about 200 jumps on my Vengeance and am very happy with it as a progression canopy. Now that I’m more skilled as a canopy pilot and am confident in my abilities I think I’d prefer the higher performance of the Samurai. I would have no problem suggesting the Vengeance as an Intermediate level canopy to any jumper. It has a wide performance range and works great as an all-around canopy with a little pep in its step.

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(Review ID:757)

7 of 13 people found the following review helpful:

End cells or every canopy is an individual

Rated by: nina on 2003-08-13 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: great landing variability
Cons: none

I just did about ten jumps with a Vengeance 97 while normally jumping a Stiletto 107.
Had a great time getting much more swoops out of it. But will need a smaller one. My exit weight is between 140 and 150 lbs.

My rigger, who lent the canopy to me, told me to be aware of dives to the right after opening. It started doing those dives after great soft openings. When I discussed that with the owner he told me what PD had told him. A parachute is an individual.
I found that after the next jumps (anyway always hands on risers and no change in the packing-method) the canopy began to know me or other way round. I obviously learned to push down the left leg to stop it from diving. It never dove again.
What a beautiful storyÉ

I love this canopy Ñ thanks Brian.

nina

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(Review ID:711)

13 of 18 people found the following review helpful:

Vengeance 120 and 107

Rated by: magnanp on 2003-05-28 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Swoop, swoop,swoop :-))
Cons: End cells closure, maybe.

I purchased a Vengeance 120 when they first came out (serial # 69) that was replaced by PD after about 80 jumps on it because of the ‘funny’ opening that where a little unpredictable. I can only praise PD for customer service as they tried very hard to fix the canopy, build me a new one, test jumped it and sent it back. I am very, very satisfied, enough that I purchased a 107 Vengeance as well.

I now have about 500 jumps on the 120 and 80 on the 107 that I sold this year as my jumping habits are not steady enough (winter) to ride this kind of canopy. My exit wait full gear is 195 Lbs for a wing loading of 1.6 on the 120 and 1.8 on the 107. The openings are nice and I avoid harness input but do have my hands ready on back risers to maintain heading if it goes off (once in a while). I found that straight packing works best, do not play with nose, don’t sink it in . Just flake it, quarter slider, roll the tail a little and great openings. To the best of my knowledge, PD does not recommend folding the nose (either 4x4 to center or otherwise).

This canopy is made for front risers, dives a lot and has great swoop but watch altitude loss and recovery it is much, MUCH more then the Stiletto. I sold my 107 after getting a perfect front riser 2700 carve out of it and realized that the swoop was getting out of hand for where I jump (limited landing space) and the dive was very pronounced. Big difference between 120 and 107 at my wing loading. I love this canopy and yes it is very solid in turbulence.

Last comments from personal experience. I did crash into the ground due to an unscheduled power line in a demo jump (no room to comment on my own stupidity here) and paid my dues (51/2 week hospital stay and 1 year in rehab-training with two Titanium bars as a reminder). For those who consider this canopy at a wing loading of 1.5 or higher, 500 jumps in the last 2-3 years and a course on front risers canopy handling should be considered a minimum !! and get a good briefing (there is a ‘delay’ on flare). If you doubt this, 2 persons I know hit hard after less then 10 jumps on brand new Vengeance they purchased (after trying mine). They both tried over 900 turns and found out that this canopy dives a lot, and both have over 1000 jumps. Be careful, have fun, blue skies.

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(Review ID:573)

14 of 20 people found the following review helpful:

Veng 120/107

Rated by: flipper on 2002-09-12 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

Pros: Stable flight, handling, lift during landing
Cons: none so far

My exp : 850 jumps on stiletto 120

before i bought the veng 120 i did around 30 jumps on the 107.
i found the 107 to open better than the stiletto 120 slightly faster but more positive, in flight the canopy handles very stiletto like...thats the best way to describe it. At landing time I found there to lots of lift with a change in swoop direction to be very easy to do.

I bought the 120 because i found the 107 to be faster than i needed. i find the 120 to be as per the 107 only just a little bit slower

now there is some discussion as to whether the airlocks will cut out the turbulence hassle...I cant really comment on whether they do or not but i can say that the chute feels more solid than the stiletto 120 with no concertina effect

I have found the chute requires rear riser control as soon as its opened to keep it on heading

front riser input is easier than a stiletto...less pressure and it stays in the dive alot longer as well ...so if your gonna hook it...do it higher (a lot)

hope this info is of help

flipper

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(Review ID:394)

8 of 16 people found the following review helpful:

Vengeance 150

Rated by: webracer on 2001-10-01 (user profile) (user reviews)

Review of: Vengeance in Unknown Tag: 'cat_linked'

After 9 jumps on the Vengeance 150 demo I have from PD, here are my comments:
I am a first-year skydiver, with 200 jumps so far this year.
I have had intermediate canopy training from some skilled HP canopy pilots
I have been jumping a Sabre 170 with excellent landings & control
My exit weight is 225.
The flight of the vengeance is superb to the sabre, in both turbulent and smooth skies. Landing the vengeance required very little adjustment from my sabre technique. Mostly I realize more lift at slower speeds (farther into the surf), and that the last few inches of toggle input do much more than on the sabre.
Turns are much faster, and diving is quite a bit steeper. Less g-force in saddle on toggle spirals than sabre.
I have not tried any high performance landings with the canopy yet, but have landed it in conditions from 0-15mph wind.
Openings are the biggest change. I am learning to fly the opening, which is slow enough to watch and react to. Three openings resulted in corkscrew dives, the first was corrected with brake release, the second two were corrected by steering with my body in the harness prior to releasing brakes. It appears to me that this opening behavior will be completely controllable with more time in the saddle.
I have not had end cell closures as of yet
I would guess the canopy I have has 250-400 jumps (based upon fabric condition) and new lines.
I am waiting also for a Samurai 150, and will review that after I get some jumps on it. I plan to put another 10-15 on the vengeance next weekend prior to sending it back.
Troy C
webracer@theads.net

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