Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Procedure for front riser approach

 


ojf1982  (D 25629)

Mar 3, 2002, 9:18 AM
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Procedure for front riser approach Can't Post

Can someone post what would be the correct procedure for pulling down both front risers on final approach? I have heard that this is a safer way than hooking.

Omar B-24801


apoil  (D License)

Mar 3, 2002, 9:52 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Can someone post what would be the correct procedure for pulling down both front risers on final approach?
um, that would be: pull down both front risers on final approach.

was this a trick question?





nws01

Mar 3, 2002, 9:57 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

I almost posted that same reply. I think what he is looking for is this. Pull down both front riser but ensure you have both toggles secure in your hands. Just before you get to the normal flaring point let the risers go (with the toggles still in your hands securely) and flare. You should get some swoop on your Sabre 2.

Again caution...most injuries are caused when someone lets go of the risers and loses their toggles. You WILL bounce.

Nathan



Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Mar 3, 2002, 10:32 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Close... but not quite there...

About 5 feet above your flareing altitude SLOWLY let up on the front risers instead of suddenly letting them go. When you getto your flaring altitude, do your flare by feel. If it seems like you are to high to flare, hold thatposition and surf until you are ready to finish. A sudden release of the risers makes the canopy go unstable for a second while it reloads the lines. This can be felt by a sharp decrease in speed and AOA. Your speed towards the ground will be higher then any other approach you have done so be prepared to dig your self out of going low on the flare.

And you probally won't bounce on a double riser approach, you will just take a trip to the ER...

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush


ojf1982  (D 25629)

Mar 3, 2002, 10:32 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Well i know that, i just dont know at what point to let it go at.

Omar B-24801


nws01

Mar 3, 2002, 10:36 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And you probally won't bounce on a double riser approach, you will just take a trip to the ER...
Ok. You will go splat and then to the ER.




nws01

Mar 3, 2002, 10:41 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

One more thing Omar. This probably goes without saying but it might save an injury. Before I ever attempted front riser landings I practiced the whole sequence at altitude several times. I than started doing them at lower altitudes and slowly let off the risers quite a ways before flaring. Ease into it and get the feel before as Phree said "you will go to the ER."

Stay Safe,

Nathan



freeflyguy  (D 24207)

Mar 3, 2002, 10:34 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Practice up high is good advice.

Also, I would tend to start with slowly letting them up a bit higher than has been suggested. Slow, yes, but get a feel for what your canopy, and wingloading is going to do. So what if you let them up to high, you will know it, you will loose the speed a little too early, but it will tell you where to do it the next time, and it will be safer.

Don't rush to find the perfect point to get out of the risers. Time is on your side, if you're careful.

j



axe96bam  (D 23380)

Mar 5, 2002, 2:47 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Turn on final, pull both front risers about 2"-4" without letting go of your toggles. Hold the front risers down until you get scared or you are 5 feet off the ground - whichever comes first. You will notice that you will let go of the risers way early at the beginning and than you will keep holding them longer and longer until finally you reach that 5 feet off the ground spot where you need to let them up and get going on your swoop. Just be careful and don't rush it. Slow is fast!

Alex



ChromeBoy

Mar 5, 2002, 3:28 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
5 feet off the ground spot where you need to let them up and get going on your swoop.
After you let the risers back up 5 feet off the ground, what flare sequence do you use to gain the most out of the swoop. I know you have to feel it but can anyone describe how they ensure they do not bounce?

ChromeBoy
"Psycho Monkey"


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Mar 5, 2002, 3:37 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

If you start to let up at 5 feet slowly to get the best proformance, you will smack in before you can flare, or you will have to dig your self out of the swoop to stand it up. Start letting up slowly when your feet are at about 10 - 12 feet. When your feet hit 5 feet you will have swung under the canopy and will still be able to be in full glide as you are about 2-3 feet up before you need to plane out the canopy, hold up on the planing for a half a second and you have a toe drag, wait too long and you will face plant. Keep slowly adding more input to keep the canopy flying, just as you feel like you are about to run out of speed, put your feet down to unload the canopy, Keep flying it at this point and slide on your shoes at this point. If you can't slide, convert the rest of your forward speed to lift to make for a great stand up landing.

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush


ChromeBoy

Mar 5, 2002, 3:45 PM
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PhreeZone,

Can you describe the planing out portion again by describing where your toggles are approximately located at each point. And what do you need to do to get airlift at the end. I am not talking about any extreme canopy I am asking for a Sabre 2 for example.

Thanks,

ChromeBoy
"Psycho Monkey"


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 5, 2002, 3:54 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

I have'nt jumped a Sabre2 or any other PD product for more then 1 jump in the last 8 months so I'll let someone else answer with general toggle position, I landed by feel alone. But for good reading on the subjuct check out Brian Germain's site and read the Jedei's owners manual. This will get you the intros of hooks, carves, planing out and some tricks to play with up high....

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Mar 5, 2002, 5:56 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

As previously discussed by several people in this thread already, a smooth release will help you to maintain that speed you worked so hard to build up with the "double front" you just did. A canopy has it's own natural recover arc. That is the distance, and length of time, it takes for your canopy to recover from a turn or "other" speed inducing maneuver such as "double fronts", a one-riser dive, or a "stall surge" like some tandem masters use nowadays.

You figure this out at altitude by making a couple of hop and pops from around five grand or more. It is up there in the clean air that you first try any new landing maneuver. At altitude, pick up a heading on the ground then throw the move. Hold it as long as you think you would need to on your final approach. How do you know what altitude to start your move? Simple; check your altimeter at altitude, throw your speed-building move, then see how long it takes for your canopy to "come around the corner" on it's own, both time-wise and altitude-wise. Do the math, then on your actual approach, throw your move at around that difference in altitude above the ground. That should allow your canopy the opportunity to do the work for you.

It has been stated here that when doing double-fronts, one should hold them down until you are either scared or at around five feet AGL. The "scared" part is actually true, at least in my experience. The actual safe altitude varies wildly according to the natural recovery arc of your main. A mildly loaded Sabre 2 is going to come around the corner quite quickly on it's own; a VX loaded at 2.8 is going to aim straight at the ground and take a long time to come around, thus one would release the risers smoothly at a much higher height. Also, as previously stated, one should always keep his or her hands in the toggles at all times. If your canopy bucks in a riser dive, then your brakes are set far too tight. A bucking canopy will not do a very good job of cleanly building speed. Likewise, a snapping release of those front risers will only shorten your swoop, as your canopy will be induced into an "artificial shortening" of the recover arc, which will generally mean that you will pendulum out from under your main, be laid back in the saddle, the the canopy will fly back over your head and not do a good job of stopping at the end of your surf.

As for the proper transfer from risers to toggles upon riser release at the beginning of your swoop: I generally only have to "tap" my toggles, to get fully around the corner and on plane. If you have to "dig", then your surf will be similarly shortened as if you "popped" off your risers (artificially induced shorter recover arc). The main mistakes novice swoopers make is that they release their risers too soon; they hit their brakes anyway, thus planing themselves out three feet above the ground; and they continue to apply brakes even as their canopy would hapilly fly along without the parasitic drag they are inducing. That being said, most will grab double fronts after a too-high turn to final, let up too soon, let up in a "popping" motion, flare too hard to get around the corner, swoop too high off the ground, then subsequently bowtie their mains as they try to shut it down from three feet up. All of those things should be addressed in your search for that smooth swoop landing.

Of key importance to me is the position my "landing gear" is in during my swoop. 99% of the swooping pictures you will ever see of me will have both feet under me and off to one side at the start of the swoop. This is so that if I catch some dead air, a contrail, etc, I will just do a modified PLF and roll out of it on one side. Once I am "around the corner", I put one foot out front, and have the other, toe down and under me, until I slow to under 20 mph ground speed. From there, I put the rear foot back under me, in trail but offset to the side a tad, like on a slalom ski. I skid every landing to a stop in that configuration. I NEVER run out landings, and might have to take three steps on a sketchy landing.

I have been swooping since there way before the term was coined for parachute landing purposes. I, and my contemporaries made all the mistakes for you younger guys so you wouldn't fuck yourselves up as many of us did "back in the day". Those willing to set aside their egos and approach the smooth swoopers will be far better off than those who just "must" make the same mistakes over and over. I used to do some very nutty stuff by todays standard and lost plenty of skin trying to be cool. One key thing I would like to really have you avoid is doing double fronts and then attempting to drag both toes under you with your body squared straight to the front. Botch your turn or riser release in that mode and you will most easily tear your body up. Problems with that are: a- flaring late and piling straight in on your knees, thus inviting the old double-femur. Flare kind of late and only go down to your shins and bust up your knees and lose skin on your toes (if you are jumping in Tevas or barefoot). None of these is the hot ticket, so think ahead and stay with your legs cocked sideways as I suggested.

Hope that helps someone. Feel free to PM me with any more specific questions, or just ask again in open forum.

Chuck Blue
D-12501

My webpage HERE


ChromeBoy

Mar 5, 2002, 7:34 PM
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Chuck,

Thanks for the replying to my private message in the column. It is not only important to understand the basics of swooping but understand the safety aspect as well. In todays day and age it is not the sport that is dangerous but the canopy pilot.

Smile

Kachink,

ChromeBoy


flyhi  (D License)

Mar 6, 2002, 4:41 AM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Excellent post Chuck!! Hope more people see it. Great insight into foot placement. Mahalo.

Just take it one day at a time, like the drunks do.
flyhi
Cool


n2skdvn  (B 22375)

Mar 6, 2002, 12:31 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

kudos chuck verry informative im glad to have people like you on this forum wish we had more!!!...thanks!!!

dont let your mind wander.....its to little to be left alone......


dzdale  (B 102591)

Mar 7, 2002, 9:27 AM
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Thanks chuck, I hope to see more posts like that ! I could learn alot.

Dale



TEB6363  (D 16363)

Mar 7, 2002, 12:55 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice Info. I hope this makes it to the Home PageSmile.

:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Mar 7, 2002, 3:09 PM
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Re: Procedure for front riser approach [In reply to] Can't Post

We are working on a project to collect the most valid tips from all the skills forums for future reference. Hopefully, somebody will let me go back in and re-edit that post before it gets saved to that place. I noticed several typos and dropped words which I need to fix, but waited to long so my "edit" timeframe has passed. Oh well, I am sure yall got the idea.

My webpage HERE



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