Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like

 


airdrew20012001  (D 24834)

Feb 27, 2002, 10:45 AM
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my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like Can't Post

Here's my concern folks: in reading a post about RSL's and freefly I saw one person say that they were going to leave their RSL on until they had a cutaway. That way the person could see if they needed it or not in that if that cut away and pulled the deploy handle they might remove it, if they panicked and only cut away they would leave it. Hmm.

I think RSL's and cypress are a great advent to an admittedly dangerous sport. The problem I see these days is a an attitude that people can rely on these backup safety devices instead of proper training and reaction. I have heard of people doing head down two ways from 5,000 on the theory that worst case scenario the cypress would save them. YIKES!!

When I started, few had cypress, nobady had RSL, and hook turns killed most skydivers. I had a lineover wihtout an RSL and pulled both handles as I was trained. I had another slow speed mal a year ago with an RSL and still pulled both handles. I wear a ditter and wrist mount and even though I shoot tandem video's I still find a way to peek at my altimeter.

My point: rely on your training and awareness not your RSL and cypress. They are worst case scenario back up devices not substitutes.

That is all.

Drewfus McDoofus


skydivemonkey  (B 102345)

Feb 27, 2002, 11:03 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said - things fail, you might think the RSL is hooked up when it isn't. Always follow your drills properly....

You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!! Laugh


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Feb 27, 2002, 11:08 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

Along the same lines, I heard someone say they would get on the 300 way attempts only if they had a cypres. If it so dangerous that you feel there is a good chance you will need a cypres to save you, don't do it. If you couldn't handle it w/ only a rig and a helmet, don't do it. These devices (I won't get into RSL's, my pet peeve:-) ) can fail, rely on yourself first and if you want them, great, but treat them as back up's only.

Hook



Spy38W

Feb 27, 2002, 11:17 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

I for one know that I have returned borrowed gear after forgetting to hook the RSL back up.



Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Feb 27, 2002, 11:34 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

I think on the 300 way they were more worried about mid air collisions then anything else. And based on watching the videos of the last few world record attempts... I'd agree with them... Break off looked like Chaos for about 2 seconds, easy to get hit by a jumper in that mess. Smaller big ways everyone's got more room then the confines of a super big way.

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush


airdrew20012001  (D 24834)

Feb 27, 2002, 11:41 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

300 hundred way...Drew no like...feh

Drewfus McDoofus


GrumpySmurf  (C 32988)

Feb 27, 2002, 11:45 AM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here's my concern folks: in reading a post about RSL's and freefly I saw one person say that they were going to leave their RSL on until they had a cutaway.
Given the opposite (polar opposite, mind you) opinion, "Even though I have never had a cutaway, I will never need an RSL. I know I will find my handles." - the first opinion worries me less.

My take on the two devices are like airbags and ABS on cars - if you are a competent driver who can judge road conditions and drive accordingly - you should never need them. But there is always lurking 'statistical probability' (betterly known as really bad luck) that you may just need to depend on them - I don't drive more aggresively because of them (nor do I take more risks skydiving just because I have either an RSL or AAD).

I think alot of folk who voice the opinion strongly in favour of either safety device are doing so because they want to err on the side of caution - and given the unforgiving nature of our sport - doesn't seem to un-reasonable to me.

Now if you do drive like a socio-path because you do have air-bags - much like if you feel ok with pulling low cause you have a CYPRES, or feel ok to put off emergency procedure review because you have an RSL - then you might want to consider taking the bus (or in our case, taking up a new hobby).

Figured I'd chime in :)

Gotta get my message post numbers up Wink




airdrew20012001  (D 24834)

Feb 27, 2002, 12:01 PM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed. Read the whole post. I think people should have both if they can afford them. The idea of "I'll wait to see if I react the way I was trained to" was what I was reacting to.

Drewfus McDoofus


skymedic  (C 33561)

Feb 27, 2002, 12:30 PM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

I know the person that you are talking about...now I do agree with you about Know where your handles..are I also think it is a good idea for people who have not had a cutaway to have an RSL...(unless your skysurfing,photo,yada yada yada)...WHY? just because they have not had the pleasure of finding the handles and doing what they have been trained to do......many people have died due to them NOT pulling there handles and going in nice and stable.....that is not good..in these cases RSL and Cypres surely would have made a difference....

marc
BSBD


GrumpySmurf  (C 32988)

Feb 27, 2002, 1:34 PM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

I more stating a view on the topic of discussion rather than offer a dissenting (or affirming) opinion - actually, looking them both over - it was a mixed bag of agreement and disagreement. Sorry.Smile.

But -
If anyone thinks this way:

In reply to:
"I'll wait to see if I react the way I was trained to"
I have a feeling you are thinking much along the same lines as I -> that this is the wrong sport for the individual who said this (or in the very least, the individual should spend some additional time in a harness getting, "You're spinning, you're spinning, you're going to die!" yelled at them until some variation of 'look, reach, pull, repeat' is permanently implanted in their head).

As well (in my opinion) the vast majority of people who use an AAD and/or RSL (such as I) do so because we want our 'ABS' and 'air-bags' just in (the absolutely remote) case that sh*t hits the proverbial fan in a real, REAL bad way.

Have you touched your handles today? Wink




Beachbum  (B License)

Feb 27, 2002, 2:00 PM
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

Being someone with low numbers .... (I have a Cypres in my rig) ... I completely agree with the "do as trained" concept .. I'm one of those who you talked about ... I want both on my rig ... and leave the RSL connected ... but I have no intention whatsoever of relying on either to do my job for me ... they are as you said .. backup systems for the "just in case" situations. I know that a lot of people with higher numbers leave their RSL's disconnected most of the time, and tho I know there are some situations where that is a good idea, to me, for a typical bellyflying fun jumper not shooting video or something ... just doesn't sound like that good an idea.



AndyMan  (D 25698)

Feb 27, 2002, 3:48 PM
Post #12 of 13 (824 views)
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

The thing is that training is no indication of how we'll react when the preasure is on. Just look at how many tandems go fetal when they've been trained to arch.

It wasn't until I actually had a cuttaway that I had the confdence that I'd perform under preasure like I had been trained.

Now since I've done it, I can put confidence in the training.

_Am

ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Feb 27, 2002, 6:40 PM
Post #13 of 13 (805 views)
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Re: my 2 cents on rsl's, cypress and the like [In reply to] Can't Post

>The thing is that training is no indication of how we'll react when the preasure is on.

Then the training is poor. Good training _puts_ you under pressure to see if you'll perform. I've made a few people cry by yelling at them and spinning them around in a harness - the idea being, if they lock up on the ground where the worst thing that can happen is they get yelled at, they won't perform better when their life is on the line.

You can't determine with 100% certainty how someone will react under stress, but it doesn't take much experience teaching to get a pretty good idea how someone will react.

>Now since I've done it, I can put confidence in the training.

Sounds to me like you have placed your confidence in your own experience over training, which is a good thing in any case. While no training is perfect, keep in mind that most of the lesson plans for FJC's were written in blood - a lot of the details that are covered are intended to prevent fatalities we've seen in the past. While it's not perfect, it works pretty well.

-bill von



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