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Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse

 

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WeakMindedFool  (D 28195)

Feb 24, 2004, 11:23 PM
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Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse Can't Post

Does anyone have advice on packing methods for the Saber 2 to reduce the amount of end cell collapse on deployment?


ifics  (B License)

Feb 24, 2004, 11:42 PM
Post #2 of 40 (5700 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I fly a Sabre2 170 loaded at 1:1, the only time I have ever had end cell closer was when I was seeing where my stall point is. So I can't help ya, sorry...


Shivon  (E License)

Feb 25, 2004, 1:50 AM
Post #3 of 40 (5674 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I would also be interested to see if there are any techniques which can help prevent this. I have a friend who is on a Sabre2 170 loaded at 1.2:1, and he has repeated end cell closures (no particular side), with the side dictating the direction of the turn. Usually a 90 or 180.


piisfish

Feb 25, 2004, 2:55 AM
Post #4 of 40 (5665 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe packing as the manufacturer recommends would help ??
which technique is used ?
what loading ??
is it really disturbing ?
are the cells really collapsed, or not inflated/under pressure yet ??


linestretch  (D 21060)

Feb 25, 2004, 3:02 AM
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

if I were you, I'd be happy with what you have. I take it the opening are generally soft...right? That's the only time I get them, and am usually happy to have it. It's usually not a problem, unless you can't keep them inflated.


deurich2003  (D 26668)

Feb 25, 2004, 5:33 AM
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Re: [linestretch] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup...my sabre 2 150 opens nice and soft when I have end cell closure. I like it much better than a "snap" in the saddle. One tug on the rears and I've got 9 full above me.


piisfish

Feb 25, 2004, 6:23 AM
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Re: [deurich2003] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

to what I think due to the description, it's just that the canpoy is not fully in pressure. No big deal, as explained, little input on the toggles and here you go...


INSANEDADDY  (D 27625)

Feb 25, 2004, 6:25 AM
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Re: [deurich2003] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I just got my new sabre 2 170 and put 4 jumps on it. I have noticed the end cells not inflating on opening. No big deal just pull the rear risors down and they inflate and the slider comes right down.


skytash  (D 100388)

Feb 25, 2004, 11:29 AM
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Re: [INSANEDADDY] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Sabre2 120 which also often has end-cell closures. When I asked a rigger what may help end cell closure, she asked what canopy it was and when I replied a sabre2, her answer was 'a re-design' Smile

She explained that the end cells have less re-enforcement tape on them and so they tend to take longer to inflate or something to that effect. I am happy to stand corrected by a rigger or PD!

I've just learned to live with it.

tash


WeakMindedFool  (D 28195)

Feb 25, 2004, 12:20 PM
Post #10 of 40 (5500 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
maybe packing as the manufacturer recommends would help ??
which technique is used ?

Pro Pack

In reply to:
what loading ??

1.35

In reply to:
is it really disturbing ?

not really...but attenetion to detail and all that. If I could get it to open well it would make me happy. But soft is better if this is the only price.

In reply to:
are the cells really collapsed, or not inflated/under pressure yet ??

Oh yeah, they are really collapsed.


(This post was edited by WeakMindedFool on Feb 25, 2004, 12:21 PM)


philly51  (D 25269)

Feb 25, 2004, 1:05 PM
Post #11 of 40 (5487 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I've put 200+ jumps on my Sabre 2 190 and have had end cell closure on every one. Openings are great, but the 90 deg turns were disturbing at first. Talked to riggers and to PD and was told that the closure was do to its design. As the other responses indicated, slight riser and/or toggle input and they open right away.


heims  (D 26913)

Feb 25, 2004, 1:54 PM
Post #12 of 40 (5484 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump a Sabre2 135 with a wingloading of .96 and have over 350 jumps on it. I used to have problems with closed end cells and my slider staying up, but when I was in DeLand, I talked with and got some packing tips from John LeBlanc and Rikster Powell. Unfortunately, seeing these minor changes in person is probably better than trying to write them out, but I'll try my best.

BTW None of these are major adjustments. In fact they may seem like Duh?, but I found my openings improved dramatically when I started to pay more attention to the little details.

Using the manufacture recommended pro-pack (BIG Surprise, huh?Tongue), I first made sure my pack job was very neat. (When I watched Rikster pack, it actually looked like the picture in the manual!) When I clear my stabilizers, I leave them out to the side and let them lay toward the nose when I wrap the tail around. (I've seen people wrap the stabilizers in the opposite direction.) I pay extra attention to the smallest one, making sure the D line attached to it stays clear of the other lines (it always liked to move on me Blush). I also make sure that my nose is symmetrical and exposed. For about a dozen jumps, I even opened the nose (I think Rikster was the one who suggested I try this) by opening the center cell and taking the four on each side slightly away from the center. (It certainly sped up my openings, but I have since found it isn't necessary.) I only roll the tail enough times to keep the canopy under control as I lay it down. I try to get all the air out of the canopy before I start to cocoon it (John suggested that using one roll to create the cocoon rather than a bunch of little tucks can help prevent me from messing with my neat pack job). Continue (as usual) to keep it neat and under control into the bag and be sure to leave enough line out and Voila . . .

Also keep in mind, the Sabre2 is designed to open slower (Thank God), so give it a little time. I found that I was in such a rush to have that full canopy above my head that I wasn't giving it enough time to let it finish opening on its own. (I had gotten used to the openings on the old Sabre. Mad)

I hope this helps, but if you still need advice I would HIGHLY recommend talking to PD. Their customer service has been five star plus. I was extremely impressed that John and Rikster took the time to help me when I visited DeLand and any time I've had a question, PD always does an excellent job either over the phone or via email answering it (and prompt too).

Sorry so long.

Blue skies,
Sherri


Blahr

Feb 25, 2004, 3:33 PM
Post #13 of 40 (5463 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump a Sabre2 210 loaded at 1.1:1
and I have no end cell closure issues at all.

I pro-pack and leave the nose hanging in the middle. I dont push it in. I dont spread it out. I dont do anything to it at all.

I have exellent openings 600-700 ft and on heading. Occasionally off heading by 10 - 15 degrees at the most.


WeakMindedFool  (D 28195)

Feb 25, 2004, 6:18 PM
Post #14 of 40 (5416 views)
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Re: [heims] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the tips! I'll definitely be giving them a try. My rig is in for a repack for a week so I hvae to waitMad. I'll tell ya how it goes!


rigging65  (D 21921)

Feb 26, 2004, 7:08 PM
Post #15 of 40 (5300 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll lend you mine...that would really stir it up, wouldn't it? WinkTongue


WeakMindedFool  (D 28195)

Feb 26, 2004, 7:15 PM
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Re: [rigging65] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll lend you mine...that would really stir it up, wouldn't it? WinkTongue

I can handle it...what would that be 2.1 to 1?


Laurent  (C 106993)

Feb 27, 2004, 1:36 AM
Post #17 of 40 (5267 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,
I fly a Sabre2 135 loaded at 1:2. In 200 jumps, I had only once an end cell collapse.

I do a standard pro pack, and don't roll anything.

By the way, the 3 Sabre2 135 and 170 we fly in La Reunion do a 180 degree u-turn at the end of each opening. Any pack or body position tip ?


ACMESkydiver  (B License)

Feb 29, 2004, 11:17 AM
Post #18 of 40 (5187 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

Jumped a Sabre2 190 on Friday...never been under one of those before. End cells were collapsed on opening, too (nice gentle open, though! Smile). Toggles once and all was good; I wasn't worried but didn't really think about it too much until I started reading here about others who have noticed it on that canopy.

Wish I could help, but the DZO packed it so I have no idea what they did...and as I said, the opening and end cell closure wasn't scary at all. -My landing...well, that is another story! TongueWinkShocked


FrogNog  (C 34484)

May 3, 2004, 11:05 AM
Post #19 of 40 (5070 views)
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Re: [ACMESkydiver] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jumped a Sabre2 190 on Friday...never been under one of those before. End cells were collapsed on opening, too (nice gentle open, though! Smile). Toggles once and all was good; I wasn't worried but didn't really think about it too much until I started reading here about others who have noticed it on that canopy.

Wish I could help, but the DZO packed it so I have no idea what they did...and as I said, the opening and end cell closure wasn't scary at all. -My landing...well, that is another story! TongueWinkShocked

Did you jump a Sabre2 190, or Tom's Hornet 190? (which we all know is similar to a Sabre2.) Part of why I'm asking is I'm searching these forums for help about how to stop the deployment end-cell closure on my Hornet 190. Cool

For anyone who has not had this lovely experience, I describe it as "the opening is fine, and about the time the opening feels complete and the slider comes down, the canopy makes a hard turn to one side or the other, for ~90, 180, or even 360 degrees."

I have decided the way I know that a toggle didn't just fire during deployment is that a fired toggle would start the turn more gently*. Tongue (*based on full-flight simulation; may not accurately simulate this problem at opening.)

Pulling both rear risers or waiting both seem to fix the closure after it has happened. I've been experimenting with different pack jobs to try and fix it (understanding that what I may be fixing is subtle details in my pack job, not the canopy), but it's beginning to look like I either need to learn to fly the opening or I need to pucker up and live with it. Crazy


ACMESkydiver  (B License)

May 13, 2004, 6:19 PM
Post #20 of 40 (4979 views)
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Re: [FrogNog] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a Sabre2; I jumped it in Texas.


pilotdave  (D License)

May 13, 2004, 6:44 PM
Post #21 of 40 (4985 views)
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Re: [FrogNog] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

My sabre2 usually turns at the end of the opening too. Really hasn't bothered me much. But on my last jump I did have a toggle come unstowed, and at first I thought it was a normal opening. When the turn continued, I looked up expecting to see a closed end cell but the canopy looked normal. Then the spin got fast and I realized it must be a toggle. But yeah, the turn started off very gentle.

Dave


ChrisD  (No License)

Sep 2, 2012, 1:04 PM
Post #22 of 40 (3804 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

I'm glad for this thread...I'm a newbi renting gear and each opening has had both fully collapsed, on heading and nice and soft compared to my old 230. I thought it was me...After letting go of the risers on opening, I just pull down the brakes for a second, no turns at all. More issues with the different slider collapsing cords...can't pull em with gloves on. thanks all who have posted here...It's very reassuring to read all of your comments!


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Sep 2, 2012, 1:08 PM
Post #23 of 40 (3802 views)
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Re: [WeakMindedFool] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Does anyone have advice on packing methods for the Saber 2 to reduce the amount of end cell collapse on deployment?

http://www.performancedesigns.com/...s_endcellclosure.asp


5.samadhi

Sep 3, 2012, 8:18 PM
Post #24 of 40 (3644 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

it probably means your brake lines are out of trim


DocPop  (C License)

Sep 3, 2012, 8:43 PM
Post #25 of 40 (3631 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Saber 2 and End Cell Collapse [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it probably means your brake lines are out of trim

Please do explain.

This I have to hear.


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