Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Round reserves

 


Freeflylizard  (A 101254)

Apr 5, 2001, 8:57 AM
Post #1 of 23 (2179 views)
Shortcut
Round reserves Can't Post

I have a friend in the UK who has a round reserve in his rig. You'd never know by looking at it, but you would if he pulled it! He says it's safer because it is less likely to get tangled if deployed through hung-up main, and that there are less possible mals it can have.
Trouble is, if you're jumping somewhere like Empuriabrava in Spain or Sebastian in Florida for example, where there isn't much margin for error in terms of off landings, I reckon you're gonna be more vulnerable under a round canopy.
Also, there are different wind limits for round canopies - something like 8 knots for rounds as opposed to 20 knots for ram-air. So do you have to stick to the round canopy limit if you have a round reserve?
Is there anbody out there who uses one, and if so, do you use it all the time, or only when the wind is light and you have a large landing area?
Blue Skies and safe landings!
Tom Arnold.



jayhfx  (B 6186)

Apr 5, 2001, 9:19 AM
Post #2 of 23 (2153 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

a few points on rounds:

- don't knock em! they're cheap and they work. I don't have one now but jumped alot with a round reserve and have seen them deployed all successfully.

- the key to tight landings is proper spotting. sometimes this gets forgotten at some places (gps, squares etc) but if you do have a round reserve the spot is crucial. If you can spot properly you should hardly ever have a problem

- I know other people who jump round reserves out of choice. If i'm knocked unconcious in the air and my cypress fires i'd rather be under a round asleep then a square turning downwind.

- let it be known that I do jump a square reserve now. I just wanted to make a point that all rounds aren't bad. Unless of course you weigh 200lbs and have a 22" lo-po.

OUCH!!!

jay



Freeflylizard  (A 101254)

Apr 5, 2001, 9:21 AM
Post #3 of 23 (2150 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Good points there - especially the one about spotting, and being unconcious after a CYPRES fire.
Any other views?
Tom.



Geoff

Apr 5, 2001, 9:44 AM
Post #4 of 23 (2145 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Another point - dual-canopy deployment is much less dangerous if one canopy is round, and that means that a canopy transfer rather than freefall cutaway can be used if you find yourself low under a malfunctioning main.

However, some modern container systems (certainly my Mirage G3) are no longer suitable for round reserves, though I'm not sure why not. Anybody know?

As for the spotting - you're right the spot has to be good, but it also has to be specifically spotted for a round canopy. I mean a deep spot could be a perfectly good spot for a square, but simply too deep for a round. I'm not sure how many people I would trust to spot for rounds nowadays, especially on a large load.

Round reserves definitely have some advantages, but I still think we'll see fewer and fewer of them.

Geoff



jayhfx  (B 6186)

Apr 5, 2001, 10:03 AM
Post #5 of 23 (2142 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree geoff

on our dropzone we have quite a mixture of square and round reserves. as part of out pre jump plan if we find out there is a round on the load we spot specifically for the whole load on the knoweledge assumption that he will land under that round.

The rest of us with squares understand that we can get back to the dz from anywhere. Right??????

lol just kidding
jay



Geoff

Apr 5, 2001, 10:18 AM
Post #6 of 23 (2139 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, let me re-phrase - I personally wouldn't want to jump with a round reserve at a tight DZ surrounded by hazards unless the pre-jump plan and the spot made allowance for the round reserve (put me out first or whatever) and I had a lot of confidence in whoever was spotting. Maybe that's just me.

If it's a wide-open DZ, surrounded by fields, then no problem.

Geoff



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 5, 2001, 10:57 AM
Post #7 of 23 (2130 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

a few other points on rounds:

-if you have an AAD, and got it "in case you get knocked out," a round is a very good idea. it will land you more reliably if you're unconscious, especially compared to a small square reserve.

-a round is more likely to entangle in a two-canopy-out situation, due to its attached pilot chute. it is more likely to be landable if it does deploy correctly in a two-canopy-out situation.

-you need to learn the differences between rounds and squares if you're going to rely on one as a reserve (i.e. know what a mae west is, and if you need to fix an inversion.) many people have never jumped a round, and often don't know what to expect.

-bill von


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Apr 5, 2001, 6:42 PM
Post #8 of 23 (2102 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
However, some modern container systems (certainly my Mirage G3) are no longer suitable for round reserves, though I'm not sure why not. Anybody know?
Because round canopies are ancient technology and having to build two different reserve deployment systems isn't cost effective for a container manufacturer anymore. Pretty much anyone who can afford a new container can afford to put a square reserve in it. I know a few people who carry a round for non-financial reasons (like those listed above) and there are a few container manufacturers who will make you a rig set up for a round reserve, but the majority of today's skydivers have square reserves so many container manufacturer's do not support rounds.

pull and flare,
lisa


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 5, 2001, 7:02 PM
Post #9 of 23 (2101 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

hey Bill do you remember me from last sunday while you were working on the Solar array at Otay Smile Howdy



DBTECH  (B 21186)

Apr 5, 2001, 7:39 PM
Post #10 of 23 (2095 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

And then of course, there is the "claimed" higher malfunction rate for rounds, but that's a whole other issue.

Dave Brownell



miked10270  (D 10270)

Apr 6, 2001, 3:12 PM
Post #11 of 23 (2049 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

... Plus the "Acid Mesh" issue... Age of the round reserves out there...

Mike D10270.



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 6, 2001, 4:25 PM
Post #12 of 23 (2045 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

>hey Bill do you remember me from last sunday while
>you were working on the Solar array at Otay

yep! red hair, right? terry looked very happy to have a new audience for all his stories.

-bill von


Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 6, 2001, 5:32 PM
Post #13 of 23 (2041 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

yep yep thats me, names Arthur. and i take it that Terry has told his stories to everyone several times. I am going this sunday again so i guess i will see you there. that is if we don't get clouded in again Mad



Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Apr 7, 2001, 6:25 PM
Post #14 of 23 (2017 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw a dude cutaway WAY too low once, about 700 feet. His Strong 26' Lo-Po opened right away, and he had enough time to turn the canopy into the wind and do a standup landing in the middle of the runway. BTW - he started off by breaking off late, pulling at about 1400 feet, then had a spinning malfunction because his pal had replaced his lower control lines and forgot to bartack the fingertrap on one side. When it rains it pours!

Anyway, rounds are great, but they do limit you. Wind velocity, DZ size, alternate DZs all come into play. And, if you do demos, the FARs require a square reserve for Level I, II, and stadium demo jumps.

jayhfx has a good point about landing unconscious under a square, but remember that the brakes will still be stowed, which will slow the forward speed a bit.

Leaving out main-reserve entanglements, double-malfunctions are rare. I jump my square reserve with confidence, but I don't think we should shun those who choose to drive on with their "round power."

Respectfully,
SP



propblast

Apr 7, 2001, 8:28 PM
Post #15 of 23 (2011 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone still make current/new round reserves? I havent seen em for sale anywhere.
-e



propblast

Apr 12, 2001, 7:57 PM
Post #16 of 23 (1959 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

*BUMP*
I bumped this in hopes someone will see it and maybe have an answer. Thanks.
-e




Viking  (B 30397)

Apr 12, 2001, 8:03 PM
Post #17 of 23 (1955 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe you can get a surplus military round from the 101 or another aircav unit.



flyboy62000  (D 29937)

Apr 12, 2001, 8:15 PM
Post #18 of 23 (1954 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Strong makes the 26' Conical LoPo Reserve. I know Para Gear sells it, but I don't know anybody else that sells them. I'm sure there are a few other rounds on the market as some jumpers still prefer a round reserve. Also rounds are very common in pilot bailout rigs. National Parachute sells pilot emergency rigs equipped with 24, 26, or 28 foot conical reserves. There are quite a few other places to buy round reserve parachutes. They are pretty common in pilot bailout rigs as they will get you down safely and you don't really need to know how to fly a canopy as long as you can PLF. I hope this info helps.

Blue Skies,
Adam



propblast

Apr 12, 2001, 8:26 PM
Post #19 of 23 (1950 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks all.

-e



cdunham

Apr 19, 2001, 6:30 PM
Post #20 of 23 (1906 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

I jump a round reserve. Or at least I did, and will again if it passes inspection this time Frown.

I've ridden in on them twice. Once (with student gear), the AAD fired as the main was deploying. Wasn't too worried about both being out, but cut the main and landed in a tree. I found out later that my hand was broken from an earlier high flare landing on the runway. Ouch. Took a while to get rescued, majorly embarrassing and beer expensive. The second one was after a lineover. Worked great, had a good landing spot, remembered the procedure for landing under a round from the student days (basically you mutter "oh, shit, oh, shit, oh shit" until you slam into the ground, do a good PLF and hope to never repeat).

I will be replacing the old 'saver as soon as I can afford to, as the DZ 10 minutes from work doesn't allow round reserves (apparently it is a State law! - State airport). I think that because Rhode Island is so small, they are afraid of people landing on the Governor's house, or drifting into Massachusetts (heaven forbid!). Can't pass up the opportunity to sneak out for a long lunch here and there. Otherwise, I would keep jumping the round, acid mesh and all.



riggerrob  (D 14840)

Apr 23, 2001, 10:11 AM
Post #21 of 23 (1872 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

Aside form the whole acid-mesh problem, I believe that the primary reason round reserves have almost disappeared is because hardly anybody knows how to land them any more. Round mains disappeared during the mid 1980s, at the same time as serious PLF training disappeared. If solid PLFs are not second nature, you are going to bruise yourself or worse landing a round canopy.



Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Apr 23, 2001, 5:25 PM
Post #22 of 23 (1853 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

If I can't see where my feet are going, like on an off-dz landing in a field of crops, I do a PLF. My rig and jumpsuit get dirty, and I lose cool points, but I don't break my leg in a woodchuck hole. Just my rule of thumb!?!?

Respectfully,
SP


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 2, 2001, 9:40 AM
Post #23 of 23 (1772 views)
Shortcut
Re: Round reserves [In reply to] Can't Post

If you insist on jumping a round reserve, please do yourself two favors.
First, learn how to spot very well.
Secondly, learn how to do Parachute Landing Falls. Hint most armies take 2 or 3 weeks to drill PLFs into young soldiers.




Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)