Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
reserve flying...

 


Zeemax

Jan 30, 2004, 2:07 AM
Post #1 of 18 (929 views)
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reserve flying... Can't Post

Ok, this may just sound like a stupid question, but it's something i was thinking the other day.


Other than just popping silver is there an easy way i can fly MY reserve, not just a similar one?

I know it sound a bit anal, but i want to check how it flys, make sure the toggles are in the right place etc..

This stems from my first cutaway where the toggles were no where near in the right place (it was rental gear) and so the flare was pathetic. I know i could have wrapped the toggles, but it was the last thing on my mind at the time.

Its just i want to fly it under conditions i'm happy with, rather than end up under a canopy that i'm not comfortable with at a low atlitude, with not many options.

Obviously i dont want to just grab silver as i like to have a back up if it goes wrong.. am i making sense?

anyone got any ideas? is this normal?


grega  (D 100020)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:19 AM
Post #2 of 18 (921 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well you could ask PD for a demo PD160-R, but that's not your canopy.
If you want to test your own reserve. the best way is to pack it as a main in some borowed rig. Remove his main from the risers, and replace his main with your reserve. I don't know about the links though. Reserve's soft links are bigger (stronger) than normal soft links so which one to choose. Consult about that with some local rigger. You can't go wrong with reserve soft links that are stronger (or can you?)
The only problem is the D-bag.
D-bags for main canopies are attached to the canopy, freebags are not. So the only option to try your reserve is to pack it in some D-bag, that you are willing to lose, because it can't be attached to your reserve.
After you or rigger sets up everything (lines, toggles, d-bag,...something i missed) pro pack it, close the container and off you go.

Take everything here with a grain of salt... don't just go and do what i said, talk to local rigger! Wink

I'm yet to try my reserve this way, but i'm afraid because it's so small Tongue


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:22 AM
Post #3 of 18 (918 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

You can organise a demo of the same model of canopy as your reserve, thats probably the best way. I've done this and its a cool learning tool. Afterall, we rely on a demo to see how our main will fly before jumping our actual canopy - why not for our reserve?

I personally wouldnt want to fly my actual reserve as the only have a limited longevity. If you jump it you instantly cut a lot of the resale value and take a chunk out of its life span.

As for where the toggles are etc, sit through its next re-pack with your rigger if they'll let you.


AirtecKai  (D 13788)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:40 AM
Post #4 of 18 (912 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is definately no stupid question.

I did this with the last 2 reserves I bought. It's a good way to avoid surprises and to get an idea about the handling of YOUR reserve.

Take your reserve out and connect it to other risers.
Borrow a rig, and put your reserve in as main.
If your reserve has a ring for bridle attachment, you can mount the main bridle as usual.

If the reserve has no ring at the center cell, take a static line deployment bag and pack the rig as static line.

Contact your rigger if you should not be firm with any of the above issues, especially about the routing of the static line (if applicable).


Make a static line jump or a clear and pull.
If you really want to check out the stall point and the general performance you should go up to at least 5000 feet.

Put your reserve back in your container. In case you should need it later, it's one unknown player less.

Pull before we doWink

Kai


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:40 AM
Post #5 of 18 (911 views)
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Re: [mr2mk1g] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

You dont have to take it to terminal. IHMO a subterminal opening wont efffect so much.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:43 AM
Post #6 of 18 (905 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely true - and you can mention that fact when selling and it would surely carry weight.

Any jump still counts as a cross on your repack card though.... 20 of those and you have to send it back to the manufacturer (re PD rules anyway) so even a sub terminal jump has an effect on re-sale.


gus

Jan 30, 2004, 2:44 AM
Post #7 of 18 (904 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you allowed to use a canopy as a reserve once it's been used as a main? Or is that just an American restriction? I thought I'd seen something along those lines on here before....

Gus


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:47 AM
Post #8 of 18 (901 views)
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Re: [gus] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

No your not in this country - thats a good point. The rules changed about 5 years back after an incident. I actually have the full case on it. The DZ got sued by someone after he hit under a piece of crap reserve that was used as a tandem main for hundreds of jumps. He got about a milion for his injuries back in 98 I think. It was a fair decision too if you ask me - his body was snafued and the DZ were well out of line.

I don't know if that applies to canopies that are manufactured as "reserves" and used once for test purposes though - that may be an exclusion to the general rule. It may be that the rule is worded to exclude mains - ie you cant just stick a sabre in there.


(This post was edited by mr2mk1g on Jan 30, 2004, 2:56 AM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jan 30, 2004, 2:57 AM
Post #9 of 18 (889 views)
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Re: [gus] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ive read about the RAven reserves that the new owner was adviced to take a subterminal jump as a main to test if it has a "built-in" turn.


grega  (D 100020)

Jan 30, 2004, 4:47 AM
Post #10 of 18 (855 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ive read about the RAven reserves that the new owner was adviced to take a subterminal jump as a main to test if it has a "built-in" turn.

seriousness off

And if not you can return them the reserve and they'll build in a turn for you.

sorry couldn't resist Laugh


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jan 30, 2004, 4:50 AM
Post #11 of 18 (853 views)
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Re: [grega] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

I happend to fly reserve with a "built-in" turn. If it would be a main I wouldve cuted away, but I had to land with that.


pds  (D 27641)

Jan 30, 2004, 5:02 AM
Post #12 of 18 (846 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

talk to your s&ta, gain access to a belly mount reserve and learn how to use it. seeems to be the procedure for intentional cutaways.

R.E. 'would cutaway reserve with built in turn if it was a main': WHAT? wow. i am pretty sure i wouldnt trade a canopy thats out but flyin crooked for a canopy thats not out yet. sure would feel stupid, for a few seconds anyway, if the reserve malfunctioned.


grega  (D 100020)

Jan 30, 2004, 5:11 AM
Post #13 of 18 (842 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I happend to fly reserve with a "built-in" turn. If it would be a main I wouldve cuted away, but I had to land with that.

Hmm, Carved swoop comes to mind Wink


pilotdave  (D License)

Jan 30, 2004, 5:32 AM
Post #14 of 18 (833 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that raven reserves may be used ONCE as a main before being used as a reserve. Can't be switched back and forth. Once it's a reserve, it's a reserve.

Dave


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 30, 2004, 5:56 AM
Post #15 of 18 (813 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, once its a main more then it should always remain a main. Technically if you can find a rigger that will recertify its airworthyness you can put 5000 jumps on a Raven as a main then repack it as a reserve. The inspection and certification will get you there since no rigger I know will certify something with more then 20 or 30 rides on it with out having factory sign off.

You can always move a Raven from a reserve to a main, its moving it back again thats much harder.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 30, 2004, 6:37 AM
Post #16 of 18 (791 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you just want to familiarize yourself with how 7-cell, rectangular canopies fly, borrow a similar-sized Triathlon and put a few jumps on it.

Second option, borrow a special "demo" PD160 from Performance Designs and put a few jumps on it.

Third option: ask your local rigger to attach your reserve to a set of main risers and jump it. One familiarization jump will not significantly degrade an F-111 canopy and any knowledgeable second owner will understand. You will not notice any difference in openings until at least 70 jumps and we used to put about 700 jumps on F-111 mains because we got tired of the tired openings and tired landings.
Heck, some reserve manufacturers encourage one or two familiarization jumps.

Relax, it is easy to install reserve Slinks on modern main risers. The only limitation with reserve Slinks is that they are difficult to install with Slink Hats, but I always thought Slink Hats were silly to begin with!


BASE813

Jan 31, 2004, 11:11 AM
Post #17 of 18 (658 views)
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Re: [Zeemax] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

why not don a chest mount and do an intential cut away??


Crazy


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 31, 2004, 2:41 PM
Post #18 of 18 (639 views)
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Re: [BASE813] reserve flying... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you do that there is no way to release the "bad" reserve if you don't like it. Best you can hope for is a double out.

Jumping it as a main is the best bet.



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