Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
20 year old reserve

 

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skygirl1  (A 45811)

Jan 29, 2004, 2:53 PM
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20 year old reserve Can't Post

My boyfriend has a 20 year old reserve...it has never been used. He took it in to a rigger for the 120 day repack, and they refused to do it.........just because it is so old........is that reserve chute safe at that age even though it was never used?

skygirl1


Brains  (D License)

Jan 29, 2004, 2:55 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I AM NOT A RIGGER!

It is my understanding that re-packs (20 yrs worth in this case) can be harder on a canopy that jumps.Unimpressed

I am sure someone else could give you a definate answer.


Jib  (C License)

Jan 29, 2004, 2:58 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

A good start:
http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=254628#254628


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Jan 29, 2004, 3:00 PM
Post #4 of 80 (2155 views)
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

What type is it and how many repacks on it?


Samurai136  (D 26609)

Jan 29, 2004, 3:03 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

What is the make/model of the reserve?

Do you have documentation that the reserve has never been jumped?

Riggers are not required to pack reserves, they are accountable for the work they choose to perform. Most riggers I know choose to not pack reserves that old as a general rule.

Ken


skygirl1  (A 45811)

Jan 29, 2004, 3:21 PM
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Re: [Samurai136] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

okay....my bag.....it is a microraven--square canopy--and it has had 2 jumps on it......and it has never missed the 120 day re-pack. He bought it directly from a private person and had the reserve looked at by a rigger when he bought the whole rig 2 years ago.

skygirl1


skygod7777  (D 24081)

Jan 29, 2004, 3:37 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My boyfriend has a 20 year old reserve...it has never been used. He took it in to a rigger for the 120 day repack, and they refused to do it.........just because it is so old........is that reserve chute safe at that age even though it was never used?


it's all up to what ever rigger packs it to determine if the canopy is safe. if the guy looked at it, and said no i will not pack this because i feel it is unsafe, well then that's his decision, and i would respect it. i mean, it's your life your playing with, and if a rigger told me that my reserve was unsafe, i'd be getting a new one.

still, take it to another rigger that you trust, and have them look it over, if they say its ok, and they'll pack it then go for it. but other wise i'd be looking for a new reserve.

later


Samurai136  (D 26609)

Jan 29, 2004, 3:39 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm confused... Are we talking about two different parachutes?

One is your boyfriend's reserve, 20 years old, and no jumps and the other is yours (microraven w/ 2 jumps on it)?

The microraven should have a label near the center of the tail that should have a production date and serial number. Tell us that information.

Edit: That information should be on the packing data card if the canopy is packed at this time.

Ken


(This post was edited by Samurai136 on Jan 29, 2004, 3:41 PM)


skygirl1  (A 45811)

Jan 29, 2004, 4:19 PM
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Re: [Samurai136] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsurelong day..........I am talking about the same 20 year old reserve of his...........his is the microraven with 2 jumps on it.......we have to pick it up from the dropzone that refuses to do the repack........once we get it I can give you more info........
sorry for the confusion........

skygirl1


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 29, 2004, 4:34 PM
Post #10 of 80 (2073 views)
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure MircoRaven's were'nt around until the early 90's. Thats only 15 years old at the max. The 80's had the Raven I, Raven II, Raven III and the Raven IV. The Super Micro Raven was introduced in 1988.

If a rigger refuses to repack it there is usually a good reason. Find out the reason and if needed have another rigger verify. If its that old and has been repacked 30+ times it might be tripping the poresity scales and might be failing for that reason.


dterrick  (B 5079)

Jan 29, 2004, 4:50 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Heya Skygirl,

Notwithstanding how old the reserve actually is, those who say that the rigger's discretion is final are likely going to be "right". When a rigger seals the reserve, they are effectively certifying that "all will be well if this thing actually gets used". I'm sure there's no hidden profit motive in selling your b/f a new reserve, just good intentions. If another DZ's rigger will do the job then it becomes THAT rigger's issue. Maybe one more repack is in order while going on a new reserve shopping spree?

And now for my story.... I jump a Raven II, DOM 1991, as a MAIN ShockedShocked. Yup, that's all the money I had at the time ( and still do) and in 150 or so jumps I've had line twists on opening precisely twice. The flare SUCKS and the opening s can be slammers - but remember this is a similar canopy loaded at nearly 1:1. When I asked my rigger if it was worth getting a porosity test to verify its condition he just snickered and said "don't waste the money, we KNOW what the answer will be".

A lightweight newbie might be a good candidate to use the "uncertifiable" reserve for a main - if someone else has a container - and if you can still find someone who doesn't have Shiny Gear Syndrome. You could also buy your b/f a spare set of risers - effectively treating him to a "spare" canopy. LEt's face it, if he would rely on it as his last chance then why would he not jump it as his first?

Good luck Don't write off your rigger or DZ for being overly "protective" but also don;t be afraid to ask for some short term grace if you are working a new reserve deal through them. Communication is everything.

-Dave


Ron

Jan 29, 2004, 5:09 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Chances are if the rigger said no...There is a reason.

Do you want to risk your BF life on a canopy that someone grounded?

Parachutes don't last forever. I have heard several riggers refuse to pack gear over 20 years old....

Think about it...If it fails....he is dead.


crapflinger2000  (D 15756)

Jan 29, 2004, 7:39 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I always refused to pack stuff older than 20 yrs for sport stuff. I always did extensive inspections of reserves, but past a certain point (and I admit 20 years is totally arbitrary) it is not worth the money I charged for a repack to do all the extra stuff I thought I should, like mulitple pull tests and the like...

I know not everyone can afford new gear, but there is certainly enuff good used stuff out there at reasonable prices that people should be able to afford it.

I always used to shake my head when people would bring in an old Wonderhog with a Preserve in it and say, "it's good enough" or "it works."

Yeah, it works. So does a 57 Chevy, but I'd still rather have a car with airbags, ABS, seatbelts, etc.

I am not trying to start a shit storm, I know Wonderhogs are great rigs, etc etc for their day, but this is not their day anymore.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 29, 2004, 9:02 PM
Post #14 of 80 (1979 views)
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Re: [crapflinger2000] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

A more graceful option is for riggers to say "this is the last time I will repack this reserve."
That gives customers 120 days to find a new rigger or rig.


jdthomas  (D License)

Jan 29, 2004, 9:24 PM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

 I would never pack anything that old for anyone.
I used to have an old rig, it had a round reserve in it.
Later in life I went to rigging school and there was that old rig and canopy in it.. the canopy had a "death diaper" (no free bag on round). and I wish that my rigger back when I purchased that rig would have told me NO to packing that thing.

You where handed a blessing, run with that to the gear store and get your man a new canopy! if you don't have the money get it! be safe today, jump again another day.


GroundZero  (A 9044)

Jan 29, 2004, 11:28 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Later in life I went to rigging school and there was that old rig and canopy in it.. the canopy had a "death diaper" (no free bag on round).

WHAT!?!?!?!???

Free bag on a round?


The diaper makes a round survive opening in most ...do I say, more modern systems....

Chris

age does not determine airworthiness, condition alone determines airworthiness...


scottjaco

Jan 30, 2004, 2:43 AM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked a rigger about the 20 year thing.

He said it was totally up to the rigger, and that there is no age limit on gear, since age doesn't dictate wear and tear or airworthyness, you rig could have stayed in a closet for 15 of those 20 years, and the reserve was only used 2 times.

I though F-111 canopies could take a couple hundred jumps before the porisity got too low to flare efficiently?


PD126r  (D 48025)

Jan 30, 2004, 6:10 AM
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Re: [scottjaco] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

As it has been mentioned:
The rigger who grounded the reserve probably did this out of good will. Remember it's supposed to be a life-saver...
I don't really see the problem here: If one DZ's rigger wants to ground it today, every rigger will also follow in on the decision not long from now (given the first wasn't a blind half-brainer...). So the res. will have to go soon anyway.
Tell your BF to hold the jumping for some time; this will save some of the money he needs for a new canopy. Or maybe you can chip in..? ;)


jdthomas  (D License)

Jan 30, 2004, 6:53 AM
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Re: [GroundZero] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

 Chris, are you not familiar with the death diaper, two band stow system? the one that did not want to open all that much!


wmw999  (D 6296)

Jan 30, 2004, 7:47 AM
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Re: [jdthomas] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

What differentiates a "death diaper" from any other diaper on a round reserve? Or are you saying that any diaper on a round reserve is bad, in which case I'll say you're wrong.

Wendy W.
(active rigger in the days of round reserves)


(This post was edited by wmw999 on Jan 30, 2004, 7:49 AM)


skygirl1  (A 45811)

Jan 30, 2004, 7:56 AM
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Re: [Samurai136] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

okay folks...............got all the info.......

MAKE---GQ

MODEL--X-210

rigger said reserve chute is fine...BUT....the pilot chute is weak and the main risers are not airworthy.

I guess bf needs to think about safety and quite being stubbornWink

skygirl1


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 30, 2004, 8:17 AM
Post #22 of 80 (1808 views)
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds more like the container is the issue rather then the reserve.

A GQ X210... wow, have'nt heard of that canopy since I started reading PPM's as bedtime stories. I think seaches of DZ.com will even come up empty for that canopy.

Your BF needs to get new risers and depending on the make of the container, he might need to replace the reserve PC, freebag and the fees with that. If there are that many issues with the rig he probally should just retire the container and get a newer one. Used rigs are 300-700. Small price to pay for good gear.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 30, 2004, 8:38 AM
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Re: [skygirl1] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

X-210 or X-210R both would make a nice car cover.Crazy


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 30, 2004, 8:46 AM
Post #24 of 80 (1796 views)
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Re: [wmw999] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What differentiates a "death diaper" from any other diaper on a round reserve?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

First time I have heard that term.
I lean towards the other end of the scale and refuse to repack round canopies without diapers because diapers reduce the malfunction rate on round canopies ten-fold.


(This post was edited by riggerrob on Jan 30, 2004, 8:48 AM)


GroundZero  (A 9044)

Jan 30, 2004, 9:20 AM
Post #25 of 80 (1779 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] 20 year old reserve [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
First time I have heard that term.
....

I was worried something got by me in the diaper days...

The diaper is a marvelous development for round canopies... greatly reducing the rounds natural desire to pick up a lineover... Where does the term "Death-" diaper come from?

Chris


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