Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Fullface on tandem-instructor?

 


alexey  (D 22)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:28 AM
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Fullface on tandem-instructor? Can't Post

I want to ask expirienced TI about using of fullface helmet while jumping with passenger.
Any pro or con?

Sorry for bad English


DShiznit  (B 27023)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:34 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bashing the back of the head of your student, maybe? Unsure


Brains  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:39 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not being able to talk to your student at exit or during freefall or under canopy. Not having clear field of view for emergency procedures(you shouldn't need to see all the handles, it just helps) Not hitting the student in the back of the head. These are just the reasons i can think of off the top of my head, i am sure there are more.


jdthomas  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:50 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

 No full face bro, I don't even wear a helmet at all.. it is an option for my passenger (frap hat only) though and once they see the frap hat they will usally opt for none!
I talk to my passengers in freefall, so the full face would not allow yelling arch in the ear of passenger.
Next is the ol head bump thing.. ouch!

Least impotant but still a factor is that it's camera shy, you don't get good pics with a full face. and I know the tm should not have a concern for his face shot. but hey it looks like you might be thinking of your saftey with a full face and not for the student if they don't have one as well..

and besides that, a helmet is just one more thing for me to worry about when tandems can be stressfull enough.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 9:57 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I want to ask expirienced TI about using of fullface helmet while jumping with passenger.
Any pro or con?

I'd say pro. I know quite a few who do use one. It prevents catching the students head in the chin on opening and landing, things that have happened to me in the past.

That said I use an open face because that's what I like.


crutch  (D 10182)

Jan 21, 2004, 10:17 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't wear any head gear, too much to worry about.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 10:24 AM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen it done, although I don't like it for myself.

It takes the ability of telling (yelling it) your student something in freefall. On a few of the working tandems I've taken, I've had to yell pull before their pull altitude, since about half-way through the dive I noticed that we weren't getting the freefall drift we needed to make it safely back to the airport. Worked like a champ, they waved and pulled after they heard me, thus they passed that part of the dive and we made it back to the airport with no problem.

Also, on "fun" tandems, I find that its nice to have a big smile for the camera. That's sort of hard to do with a fullface on. Although I always wear mirrored sunglasses on tandems (especially with video) so my eyes are not in their video, which makes it less personal on my end and more their video, instead of mine.

Take my advice for what its worth, though, since I only have a bit over 200 tandems.


jdthomas  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 11:00 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I agree with aggiedave about the personal touch to the video, I try to wear dark lens' as much as possible.
good tip to new TI's..


jumpy  (A 8109)

Jan 21, 2004, 9:58 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'd say pro. I know quite a few who do use one. It prevents catching the students head in the chin on opening and landing, things that have happened to me in the past.

Wouldn't the student catching the hard fiberglass instead of your chin in the back of the head be a bad thing?.. Potentialy knocking them out even?..Crazy


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2004, 5:14 AM
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Re: [jumpy] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Its better to knock your student out then to have their head smash into your chin/nose/forhead and knock out or rended the TM useless. I've seen some TM's come down with bloody noses and busted up lips from Students heads hitting them or their head slamming into students heads on hard openings.


jumpy  (A 8109)

Jan 22, 2004, 5:20 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its better to knock your student out then to have their head smash into your chin/nose/forhead and knock out or rended the TM useless. I've seen some TM's come down with bloody noses and busted up lips from Students heads hitting them or their head slamming into students heads on hard openings.

True but purhaps making making it manditory for students to wear a frap hat?.. But hey just my 0.02.. Just another 100 jump wonder Smile


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 22, 2004, 7:27 AM
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Re: [jumpy] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
True but purhaps making making it manditory for students to wear a frap hat?..

Agh. Do a search, you'll see a farily heated debate about frap hats.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 22, 2004, 7:31 AM
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Re: [jumpy] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

I did one tandem without a helmet and concluded that it was too LOUD!
Then I did 500 tandems while wearing a leather hat because it kept my ears warm and was great place to mount a Dytter.
After a bad solo landing, I binned my leather hat for a Pro-Tec and have worn them for my last 2,000 tandems. I have worn out a couple of Pro-Tecs and my current one has dozens of scratches because those loving students find so many ways to show their appreciation by SLAMMING MY HEAD INTO THE DOORFRAME!
If the weather is good on Saturday, I will wear my brand-new HAVOK full-face helmet on a tandem dive because I am really tired of students bashing my jaw.


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 22, 2004, 7:32 AM
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Re: [jumpy] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wouldn't the student catching the hard fiberglass instead of your chin in the back of the head be a bad thing?.. Potentialy knocking them out even?..Crazy

Logic says to me (newbie that I am)....that if they are hitting the fiberglass hard enough to knock them out, that they'd be smashing the TM's face hard enough to knock THEM out....which would be a very bad bad thing.


The111  (D 29246)

Jan 22, 2004, 10:49 AM
Post #15 of 21 (1111 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agh. Do a search, you'll see a farily heated debate about frap hats.

I'm not trying to take this post off-topic, but I can't find any current "heated debates" on frap hats. Every thread I can find ended rather quickly after someone made it clear that a frap hat is safer than no helmet in any situation, something which is too obvious to be arguing in the first place IMO. Again, not trying to start that discussion here, but I'd like to see any threads about this that are still heated debates...


(This post was edited by The111 on Jan 22, 2004, 10:51 AM)


Ron

Jan 22, 2004, 11:10 AM
Post #16 of 21 (1099 views)
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I want to ask expirienced TI about using of fullface helmet while jumping with passenger.
Any pro or con?

No. Don't wear a full face.

You could hit the student with it.
You can't talk to them with it.
It removes the "person" from their thoughts and can add to fear.

I wear a frap hat..Not to protect my head from impact, but from riser slap.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 22, 2004, 2:23 PM
Post #17 of 21 (1069 views)
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Re: [The111] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe I remember the threads about Fraphats being more heated then they were...I'm getting old, memory is failing.Tongue


Ron

Jan 22, 2004, 3:00 PM
Post #18 of 21 (1061 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe I remember the threads about Fraphats being more heated then they were...I'm getting old, memory is failing

FRAP HATS ARE BLACK DEATH!!!!!!!

Feel better?

Oh yeah, RSL's kill and CYPRES's (CYPRESI???) are for loosers.Laugh


vamp  (Student)

Jan 28, 2004, 5:23 PM
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

Disclaimer: total newbie/aint never jumped/just tryin' to do some book larnin' afore I do true larnin'.

That being said...um...if one is leaping from a plane miles up in the sky...and if one were to impact upon the ground roughly one would be, say, going really really fast...why wear a helmet? What is the purpose of a helmet in this particular sport?

Please be gentle.Crazy

I'm harmless. Most of the time.


tombuch  (D 8514)

Jan 28, 2004, 5:56 PM
Post #20 of 21 (931 views)
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Re: [vamp] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Disclaimer: total newbie/aint never jumped/just tryin' to do some book larnin' afore I do true larnin'.

For tandems, a helmet protects against light abrasions in the airplane, and softens the bumps if the tandem student and instructor knock heads on exit, in freefall, at opening, or on landing.

For AFF jumps a helmet can protect against aggressive docks by instructors dealing with an unstable student, or slight bumps between instructor and student from instability in freefall.

For all students, and all jumpers for that matter, helmets can help when the parachute opens fine, but the landing isn't "all that." For example, a low toggle turn can cause a nasty but survivable landing and a helmet can help. A landing in a tree or on a building, car, fence, etc, can be pretty ugly, but a helmet can help reduce the ugliness.

In freefall, folks doing relative work or freestyle can have some pretty high closing speeds, or may be moving very fast close to each other, and a helmet can help prevent head injuries.

Beyond accident mitigation, a helmet can help keep your head warm, and some people like them because they block out much of the wind noise in freefall.

So, those are a few examples of when a helmet can help. As you think about and research the sport it's important to understand that complete parachute failures with a "splat" at the end are very rare. More common are minor injuries caused when good parachutes are landed, umm, less that well.

I hope that helps. If you are interested in more information keep reading the Internet and consider picking up a couple of books. The first is called Parachuting: The Skydivers Handbook. It's a good text for beginners and experienced jumpers. It was published by ParaPublishing and is available at most book stores and at Amazon.com. The second book is called JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy. I wrote JUMP! and it was published by McGraw-Hill last year. This book was written for folks like you who have questions about the safety of skydiving, the why and how's, and wonder if the sport is really right for you. JUMP! helps answer questions for first timers and helps you to find, evaluate, and select a great drop zone. JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy is available from many book stores as well as from Amazon on a great discount.

So, keep researching and reading, and enjoy your first skydive!

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
Safety and Training Advisor
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy


linestretch  (D 21060)

Jan 31, 2004, 1:19 PM
Post #21 of 21 (877 views)
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Re: [alexey] Fullface on tandem-instructor? [In reply to] Can't Post

My biggest issue has been losing my ears to the risers whipping by. It hasn't happened in a long time, but I've had a few bloody ears. But, I don't wear anything still. I really don't care what the student wears.....unless they have very stinky hair. That's just me. YOU need to do what feels good for you.



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