Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

Poll: Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports
Yes 100 / 61%
No 64 / 39%
164 total votes
 
pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 21, 2004, 3:05 AM
Post #1 of 154 (3510 views)
Shortcut
Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports Can't Post

Following the very interesting debate on whether skydiving is risky but safe I think that may be we could have consensus on this one.


Amazon  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 3:07 AM
Post #2 of 154 (3465 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey its been safe for a very long time... here is a picture.. circa late 1950's


(This post was edited by Amazon on Jan 21, 2004, 3:27 AM)
Attachments: Seattle Skydivers loft.JPG (42.2 KB)


velo90

Jan 21, 2004, 3:17 AM
Post #3 of 154 (3452 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

I am voting "no" on this one.
I have absolutely no data to back this up but I have a feeling that Formula 1 racing ( the stuff that Schumacher does) is safer.

Dave
Like who the hell is Michael Schumacher? - Kelel01


pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 21, 2004, 3:19 AM
Post #4 of 154 (3447 views)
Shortcut
Re: [velo90] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am voting "no" on this one.
I have absolutely no data to back this up but I have a feeling that Formula 1 racing ( the stuff that Schumacher does) is safer.

Dave
Like who the hell is Michael Schumacher? - Kelel01

I just said one of the safest, not the safest.


jceman  (D 19212)

Jan 21, 2004, 6:33 AM
Post #5 of 154 (3316 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Following the very interesting debate on whether skydiving is risky but safe I think that may be we could have consensus on this one.

I voted "NO".

The words "Safe" (and any and all of its derivatives) should never appear in the same sentence with the word "skydiving" unless it is the following:

"Skydiving is a dangerous activity but the risks involved can be mitigated so as to provide an illusion of safety."


(This post was edited by jceman on Jan 21, 2004, 11:57 AM)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jan 21, 2004, 6:59 AM
Post #6 of 154 (3283 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

It's an unaswerable question because you didn't define what is and is not a "risky sport".

What constitutes the set of "risky sport"?


Ron

Jan 21, 2004, 7:17 AM
Post #7 of 154 (3260 views)
Shortcut
Re: [quade] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What constitutes the set of "risky sport"?

I would say mine is "Requires the use of skill to avoid injury or death"


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 7:20 AM
Post #8 of 154 (3259 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

How many of these damn threads are we going to have?

Skydiving is dangerous. If you're unwilling to take the calculated risk to jump and are unwilling to deal with the dangers out of your control that could kill you, well, then quit the sport!


FrogNog  (C 34484)

Jan 21, 2004, 7:24 AM
Post #9 of 154 (3251 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Amazon] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey its been safe for a very long time... here is a picture.. circa late 1950's

So, back in the day, would you actually have a relatively normal landing if you put your rig on backwards like in the picture? (Looks like risers coming from his back.)

Doesn't sound "safe" to have the handles in back, tho...


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Jan 21, 2004, 7:25 AM
Post #10 of 154 (3245 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

Safe compared to what? Base jumping? Then yes. Rock climbing? Then no ... Skydiving is not safe ... but it sure can be fun. Wink


velo90

Jan 21, 2004, 7:31 AM
Post #11 of 154 (3240 views)
Shortcut
Re: [AggieDave] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
How many of these damn threads are we going to have?

We will keep having them as long as we keep taking on new students.
It's a normal phase they all go through.
Stage 1. Scared shitless
Stage 2. Survived a few jumps - hey It's quite safe!
Stage 3. Seen enough of the shit that happens - It's dangerous and not safe.

There are probaly other stages.
I am willing to admit that I went through the "hey it's safe" stage, but now I know better.

Some things can not be taught, they have to be learnt first hand.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 21, 2004, 7:34 AM
Post #12 of 154 (3234 views)
Shortcut
Re: [velo90] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I never went through all of those stages. Right before I was going to get on the plane for my 3rd jump (the 182 was decending) the previous load was landing. A guy hooked in. Fucked himself up BAD. So I knew from very early on that this sport can reach out and "touch" you.


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 21, 2004, 7:38 AM
Post #13 of 154 (3230 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CanuckInUSA] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Safe compared to what? Base jumping? Then yes. Rock climbing? Then no ...

Rock climbing: 75% of participants sustain some form of injury in their career.

"the following activities result in a 1-in-1,000 chance of death: rock climbing for 25 hours, skiing for 340 hours, driving a car for 2,000 hours, riding a motorcycle for 55 hours, and skydiving for 50 hours.
"

There are a lot of sports that are safer than skydiving..many many sports that are safer...
but rock climbing isn't one of them. (specifically, outdoor rock climbing. Indoor rock climbing is safer, yes...)


chuteless  (D 41)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:00 AM
Post #14 of 154 (3214 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people would agree the space program is risky and unsafe.

Commander James Lovell (Apollo 13) who had an explosion on board on his wayto the moon, told me " what you are doing (skydiving) is far more dangerous than what I do as an astronuat.

If something happens when you are in freefall, its strictly up to you to get yopurself out of the problem and safely back to earth. If something happens to me in space (like on Apollo 13) I have millions of people around the earth who will assist me in solving my problem and getting me back safely"

I believe it is all relative...you can be killed carelessly walking across the road....Although I havent always looked both ways, Ive made it across each time.

Skydiving is the same....although I havent always jumped "safely" according to the BSRs, Ive been busted up many times, but I'm still here and willing to go again.

Sly


Bill Cole D-41


Ron

Jan 21, 2004, 8:04 AM
Post #15 of 154 (3207 views)
Shortcut
Re: [AggieDave] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How many of these damn threads are we going to have?

We will have these as long as we have newbies trying to convince themselves that they are safe.

In reply to:
Skydiving is dangerous. If you're unwilling to take the calculated risk to jump and are unwilling to deal with the dangers out of your control that could kill you, well, then quit the sport!

Amen


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:18 AM
Post #16 of 154 (3195 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We will have these as long as we have newbies trying to convince themselves that they are safe.

Why?

Why do you feel that it's so important to convince everyone that it's so dangerous? Why is that something you feel you must do?

Do you beleive that by trying to convince them (us) that it is so very dangerous that merely saying that you feel that it's "safe" means you're an idiot...do you think that makes them (us) safer jumpers?? What is your motivation for trying to convince newbies over and over again that it's so perilous?

I have never said that you are wrong for saying it's unsafe. I have never said that your opinions are inaccurate or that your opinion is invalid. I have simply said that it's a matter of definition - personal definition.

Yet you keep trying to convince everyone that not only do you believe that it's unsafe, but that everyone who disagrees with you are newbie idiots that will grow up someday and realize how very right you are. (while verbally patting them on the head) It's not that you disagree or have a different opinion...it's that you are right and they are stupid and naive and wrong.

so what are you hoping to accomplish? Why must this thread be debated everytime a newbie says it's safe?


ladyskydiver

Jan 21, 2004, 8:33 AM
Post #17 of 154 (3178 views)
Shortcut
Re: [elfanie] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

100% because of the word "safe."

The reality is that you can do things to mitigate the danger of the sport but there is nothing you can do to make the sport "safe." You can say that the sport is in your comfort realm and that the risks are such that you are ok with them. But, the reality is this sport is not nor will it ever be "safe."

And, yes, we are talking the dictionary's definition of safe.


Ron

Jan 21, 2004, 8:34 AM
Post #18 of 154 (3176 views)
Shortcut
Re: [elfanie] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Why do you feel that it's so important to convince everyone that it's so dangerous? Why is that something you feel you must do?

Because it is dangerous...And if you approach it that way you will live longer. Neglect the danger, and you can't manage it.

In reply to:
Do you beleive that by trying to convince them (us) that it is so very dangerous that merely saying that you feel that it's "safe" means you're an idiot

Show me where I said that. You can feel like a idiot if you want, thats your choice.

In reply to:
What is your motivation for trying to convince newbies over and over again that it's so perilous?

To keep them (you) from getting killed in this "safe" sport.

In reply to:
I have simply said that it's a matter of definition - personal definition.

And dictionary's, and experienced jumpers disagree with your definiton.

In reply to:
Yet you keep trying to convince everyone that not only do you believe that it's unsafe, but that everyone who disagrees with you are newbie idiots that will grow up someday and realize how very right you are.

Take a look at those that have said its safe....they are newbies..The experienced folks don't argue its safe, only you do.

In reply to:
It's not that you disagree or have a different opinion...it's that you are right and they are stupid and naive and wrong.

Never said stupid....I have said inexperienced, and that I think that you are wrong if you think skydiving is safe.

Walk up to a whuffo and ask then if skydiving is safe.....They will tell you that its not, and that you are an idiot if you jump from planes.

Suddenly you get a few jumps and learn a little bit about the sport and you think its "safe"....

After a while you learn more and realise that it is not safe, but that you can manage the risks and that you are willing to accept them.

That is different than safe.

In reply to:
so what are you hoping to accomplish?

To keep you "safe"

In reply to:
Why must this thread be debated everytime a newbie says it's safe?

Because its not. And for you to think that you are lying to yourself. And when you tell others that it is safe you are misleading them.

Why do you have to keep saying it is "safe"?

Why don't you listen to people with more experience than you? Not just me but all the others here?

Do you know more than all of us?


(This post was edited by Ron on Jan 21, 2004, 8:54 AM)


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:34 AM
Post #19 of 154 (3175 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ladyskydiver] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And, yes, we are talking the dictionary's definition of safe.

Ok...going by the dictionary's definition of safe...I'll go to that for a moment..

What, going by that definition, is safe? What activity would you say, using the dictionary's definition, is safe? (general "you", not a specific "you")


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:36 AM
Post #20 of 154 (3170 views)
Shortcut
Re: [elfanie] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There are a lot of sports that are safer than skydiving..many many sports that are safer...
but rock climbing isn't one of them. (specifically, outdoor rock climbing. Indoor rock climbing is safer, yes...)

At the risk of getting into a heated debate (which I'm not really interested in), I feel differently here (at least based on my rock climbing and skydiving experiences). I have only climbed indoors a few times, so believe it or not most of my rock climbing experience has been outdoors. Trusting your belayer, knowing your gear and your knots, knowing how to setup proper anchors and climbing procedures is a must in rock climbing. And besides having your belayer falling asleep on you, top ropping isn't dangerous and seconding a lead climber isn't bad either. Lead climbing, especially on big walls with multiple pitches does have it's dangers, but besides the weather or an unknown route, the dangers in rock climbing are visible and known up front. The dangers in skydiving can be random and you could do everything right on a skydive and still die. I'm not so sure the same statement can be applied quiet as often in rock climbing.

Now free solo rock climbing is a whole different can of worms and so is mountaineering and ice climbing.


(This post was edited by CanuckInUSA on Jan 21, 2004, 8:38 AM)


pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:37 AM
Post #21 of 154 (3168 views)
Shortcut
Re: [quade] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's an unaswerable question because you didn't define what is and is not a "risky sport".

What constitutes the set of "risky sport"?

Well, I guess risky sport implies one in which you can get killed while practicing it. You could also include those in which you can get very seriously hurt but very rarely killed like american football for example but let's keep it to the significantly potentially deadly ones.


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 21, 2004, 8:47 AM
Post #22 of 154 (3155 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What is your motivation for trying to convince newbies over and over again that it's so perilous?

To keep them (you) from getting killed in this "safe" sport.
In reply to:
so what are you hoping to accomplish?

To keep you "safe"

Why don't you listen to people with more experience than you? Not just me but all the others here?

Do you know more than all of us?
First...what you're saying is that you believe that I, by virtue of believing the sport is safe, am more dangerous than someone who believes that the sport is dangerous...? So if two people are sitting side by side with the same experience and jump numbers and wingloading..and one said it's safe and one said it's unsafe...that the person who thinks it's unsafe is somehow a safer jumper?

that logic doesn't make sense. (to think that you're somehow SAVING people by saying over and over how dangerous it is....THAT is naive. to give suggestions of how to make it safer, THAT is saving many more people than you just trying to convince people to define the sport as you do.)

As for why don't I listen to people with more experience than me? I do! I just don't take their word as God when it comes to a personal assessment. Just because someone tells me to jump off a bridge doesn't mean I will do it...I will look at the benefits, look at all of the risks, and decide for myself if it's a safe thing to do. That's what you don't seem to be able to understand...that it's not about knowing more, it's about interpretation.

Lets get away from skydiving for a moment...
Epidurals are used in over 90% of birthing women in many hospitals across the country. You will hear over and over from anesthesiologists that epidurals are safe.
Yet there are many risks...and some of them are VERY common (like, nearing the 50% mark).
Are they wrong for thinking epidurals are safe? Nope...but I don't agree. My risk assessment says that epidurals are dangerous...
doesn't mean that they are wrong..it means that their risk assessment came to a different conclusion. Do I know more than they do? No. Do they know more than I do? No. WE both have all of the same knowledge...but came to different conclusions.

Same here. It's not about knowing more...it's about our interpretation of that knowledge.

And you aren't saving anyone or making anyone safer by insisting that this is an incredibly dangerous sport...

(but I am good at eating humble pie. when I hit 500 jumps....I will come let you know what I think. You could be right..I could change my risk assessment opinion...but we will have to wait another year or two to see...)


lawrocket  (Student)

Jan 21, 2004, 9:05 AM
Post #23 of 154 (3143 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, I see things like "safer" and I laugh. "Safer" and "risky" are terms of pure puffery.

I'll put it this way. Is skydiving as safe as I am ugly? Is skydiving as dangerous as Ron is honest?

Look. Just understand something. Skydiving can kill. Skydiving has little social utility.

Sure, skiing can kill you. The danger of dying while skiing is not so in your face apparent as leaving an aircraft from a couple miles up.

And, ask Bill Booth. Booth's law #2 states "The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant."

What's this mean? The sport will NEVER be safe so long as humans are doing it.

We can only make it "safer." And that starts with the stark realization that this sport is about as dangerous as you can get.


relyon  (D 18973)

Jan 21, 2004, 9:08 AM
Post #24 of 154 (3137 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chuteless] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Commander James Lovell (Apollo 13) who had an explosion on board on his wayto the moon, told me " what you are doing (skydiving) is far more dangerous than what I do as an astronuat.

Very interesting, but I don't buy it. The fatality rate for manned spacecraft operations is far in excess of that for skydiving.

Bob


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 21, 2004, 9:14 AM
Post #25 of 154 (3135 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CanuckInUSA] Skydiving is one of the safest risky sports [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The dangers in skydiving can be random and you could do everything right on a skydive and still die. I'm not so sure the same statement can be applied quiet as often in rock climbing.

When I read the incident reports in skydiving I don't see people randomly going in, I see a lot of failures in judgements with the rare "did everything right" thrown in. A lot of times it's even a chain of poor judgements, someone pushing things too far in one or more areas and when they eventually make a mistake it goes fatal instead of just being broken bones and bruises.


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)