Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Skydiving is risky but safe

 

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Poll: Skydiving is risky but safe
Yes 143 / 38%
No, it is not risky 19 / 5%
No, it is not safe 130 / 35%
No, if it is risky it is not safe 80 / 22%
372 total votes
 
pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 20, 2004, 7:01 AM
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Skydiving is risky but safe Can't Post

It may sound as a contradiction but I say that:

Skydiving is risky but safe

Risky because you risk death everytime you jump out of an airplane

Safe because human mistakes account for nearly 100% of accidents and human mistakes is what we can and should avoid by learning, training and knowing our limitations


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 20, 2004, 7:03 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

There is safety in the sport, but it is still an unsafe sport.

Overall, the sport is a calculated risk. You can work to minimize the risk via training and proper judgement.


velo90

Jan 20, 2004, 7:04 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

To quote Winsor :-
What part of flinging yourself bodily at the Earth from a couple of miles up strikes you as "safe?

Dave


grega  (D 100020)

Jan 20, 2004, 7:08 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Like you said skydiving is safe, people are risky.

Similar in traffic.If you put a car on the road it's as safe as it can be,but if you put a driver in it too it can be verrrryyy dangerous.

Exactly the same with skydiving.
so it's all up to you if it's safe or not. It's as safe as you make it (packing, flying, opening, landing...)

About risk, huh Everyday living is risky Smile


(This post was edited by grega on Jan 20, 2004, 7:13 AM)


Blahr

Jan 20, 2004, 7:11 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Safety is risky


StearmanR985  (A License)

Jan 20, 2004, 7:25 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It may sound as a contradiction but I say that:

Skydiving is risky but safe

Agreed. Believe it or not, I feel that I am less likely to be injured/killed skydiving than when I ride my motorcycle.


bsoder  (B 27004)

Jan 20, 2004, 7:37 AM
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Re: [StearmanR985] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

We had this discussion just recently. As long as you define "safe" as "safe enough" you're good. Smile


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:00 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Skydiving is not safe. You can do everything right, and still die.

_Am


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:04 AM
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Re: [AndyMan] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Its very safe.

Extremely safe.

All those deaths and life altering injuries are just a statistical bleep in this normally safe activity.


grega  (D 100020)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:08 AM
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Re: [AndyMan] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

you're absolutely right

And you can do nothing and sit all day long in a room, and still die if a meteor hits your house and you in it Crazy


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:13 AM
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Re: [grega] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
And you can do nothing and sit all day long in a room, and still die if a meteor hits your house and you in it

Do you really believe this?

It happens, about once a year. Roughly 1 in 30 deaths in skydiving happen even though the jumper did everything right. It's not even the end of January and a tandem pair went in in Japan, aparently all handles pulled, everything done "right".

If I wanted to take part in a "safe" sport, I would not jump from airplanes, I would ride roller coasters.

_Am


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:34 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

If you compare skydiving to base or free solo rock climbing, then yes it is safe. But do not fool yourself. Skydiving is NOT a safe sport. But it sure can be fun. Wink


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jan 20, 2004, 8:35 AM
Post #13 of 207 (6102 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If I wanted to take part in a "safe" sport, I would not jump from airplanes, I would ride roller coasters.

Ballroom dancing, maybe. Chess and bridge, that starting to stretch it. But roller coaster is a sport too now?


Skydiving adds a significant risk to your health. Dont forget it. Anything you do in life does, but if you skydive, even without doing a long exhautive stats analysis, I'm sure you'll get injured or killed by it before getting hit by a meteor.Crazy


pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 20, 2004, 9:59 AM
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Re: [AndyMan] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Roughly 1 in 30 deaths in skydiving happen even though the jumper did everything right.


So 97% are due to own human mistake... and a further percentage that puts it near the 100% mark are due to mistakes made by someone other. My point is that equipment failure is absolutely exceptional nowadays.

It definitely depends on where you put the bar for "safe". No doubt it is risky!


relyon  (D 18973)

Jan 20, 2004, 10:02 AM
Post #15 of 207 (6022 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing is safe and we all die.

Bob


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jan 20, 2004, 10:08 AM
Post #16 of 207 (6013 views)
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Not only is skydiving not safe, but it's also freekishly random.

A person rides a man/reserve entanglement all the way in, dusts himself off and walks away with no more than a bruise.

A person has a perfectly normal landing right until she trips over a gopher hole, her chest mounted altimeter catches her in the throat and she dies.

Also, nearly 100% is not 100%. Gear malfuntions happen and people die because of them. If you think otherwise, you're only fooling yourself.


(This post was edited by quade on Jan 20, 2004, 10:09 AM)


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jan 20, 2004, 10:16 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Well. From the mouths of babes:

Me: Jett, get off the stairs.

Jett: Why?

Me: Because if you fall from way up there, you are going to get hurt really bad.

Jett: How come?

Me: Because that is a long fall and you can hurt your body very bad if you fall.

Jett: Why?

Me: Jett. Playing on the stairs is dangerous! Please come down now!

Jett: Mom. Skydiving is dangerous.

Great. Now I have to have a risk factor acceptance talk with my 2.5 year old.


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jan 20, 2004, 10:18 AM
Post #18 of 207 (5998 views)
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing about this sport is safe. Make no bones about it.

You're committing suicide every time you get out of an airplane until you decide to alter the inevitable course...by throwing out a limp piece of cloth that you hope will catch air and pull out a little stainless steel pin that you can bend with your fingers. If nothing goes wrong there, then all you need if for a bunch of slack lines to release in the proper order from a bag that is being drug away from you without any real sort of stabilization, then dumps a mass of material (without shape) into a 120 mph slipstream. You're then relying on the fact that air should go into the mass of material and sort it out...taking you from 120 mph (or faster ) to near 0 mph in somewhere around 4-5 seconds (try that in your car and see how safe you feel).

If all that doesn't kill you, you've still got to fly this inflated mass of nylon through the air with no source of power to create lift if you need a go-around or something. You fly into some sort of a pattern with a bunch of other people who probably have no true flight training, then attempt to time a last ditch effort to create lift from your mass of nylon just in time to keep you from glancing off the ground while going 25 mph.

If all that doesn't get you, then you go and haphazardly flip and flop the mass of nylon around until you can get it jammed into a little black bag, so that you can cram it into a bunch of nylon strips that will hold it to your back while you go tempt fate again.

Yeah, sounds real safe to me.... Tongue


pkasdorf  (D 40)

Jan 20, 2004, 10:25 AM
Post #19 of 207 (5985 views)
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Re: [quade] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not only is skydiving not safe, but it's also freekishly random.

A person rides a man/reserve entanglement all the way in, dusts himself off and walks away with no more than a bruise.

A person has a perfectly normal landing right until she trips over a gopher hole, her chest mounted altimeter catches her in the throat and she dies.

Also, nearly 100% is not 100%. Gear malfuntions happen and people die because of them. If you think otherwise, you're only fooling yourself.

I can assure you that I am not fooling myself! Of course near 100% is not 100%. I honestly think that the statement RISKY BUT SAFE implies exactly what skydiving is, a risky sport that you can enjoy in a safe manner, as safe as a risky sport can be. 100% safe does not exist in any risky activity.


Jessica  (B 25202)

Jan 20, 2004, 10:47 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
human mistakes is what we can and should avoid by learning, training and knowing our limitations

"Human mistakes" are a very real part of this sport. I'm a bright, responsible woman who jumped when it was windy and smashed the fuck out of her pelvis.

You can't discount human nature in your evaluation of skydiving's "safety." People are not infallable. Many injuries and fatalities are traceable to human error. That doesn't mean they're not going to happen again and again.

A sloppy gear check, a quick downsize without proper canopy training, misjudged altitude, a bad spot...these are things that are unfortunately not going to disappear.


(This post was edited by Jessica on Jan 20, 2004, 10:50 AM)


rigging65  (D 21921)

Jan 20, 2004, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Many injuries and fatalities are traceable to human error.

And the really shitty part is that even when you do every possible thing right and by-the-book, it's still possible for you to end up dead or near dead. I speak from very personal, very first-hand experience with this one folks. This sport is not safe.

You do the best you can to stack the odds in your favor, but that's all you can do: risk management.


elfanie  (B 27003)

Jan 20, 2004, 11:17 AM
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Re: [rigging65] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And the really shitty part is that even when you do every possible thing right and by-the-book, it's still possible for you to end up dead or near dead. I speak from very personal, very first-hand experience with this one folks. This sport is not safe.

You do the best you can to stack the odds in your favor, but that's all you can do: risk management.

and how is that different than everything else we do in life?

I drive very conservatively and very defensively. I follow the rules (often to my husband's chagrin) and do everything I can to make it as safe as possible.

I can still get creamed taking my daughter to gymnastics class..or going to the grocery store.

I lock the doors on my house and we take steps to try to ensure our safety...but every year that are many break ins in which people are killed.

Knowing someone who has died from one thing or another doesn't make the risk greater or make it more real or whatever...just makes it more emotional to the person who has experienced it.

I agree that skydiving has risk...but I believe it to be safe according to my definition of safe. (my definition of safe doesn't mean "without any risk"...I doubt that anyone's definition of safe truly means that, anyways.)


Ron

Jan 20, 2004, 11:34 AM
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Re: [pkasdorf] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Not safe.

You can limit the risks, but you can do everything right and still die.

1/1,000 folks in the USPA in the US will die this year. Odds are you will know one of them.

There is nothing safe about the sport, only some really neat ways to reduce the chance of a fatality.

God I wish folks would quit acting like this is safe.

It can be done safley...but that does not make it safe.

And I don't want to hear Bullshit about meteors falling on my head....

There are Billions of folks that could get hit by a meteor just in the US...The USPA says there are only 35000 active jumpers...yet 30 still die a year. When was the last time you heard of a meteor hitting someone?


velo90

Jan 20, 2004, 1:32 PM
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Re: [Ron] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There are Billions of folks that could get hit by a meteor just in the US...

Just how many people live in the US?

Dave
Edited to add : maybe that was your point Smile


(This post was edited by velo90 on Jan 20, 2004, 1:33 PM)


Newbie  (C License)

Jan 20, 2004, 1:45 PM
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Re: [rigging65] Skydiving is risky but safe [In reply to] Can't Post

i agree with what you said, but i don't think im "committing suicide everytime i jump unless i do something". That would imply i'm trying to kill myself - or - i like the idea of death. I'm doing something that makes me feel more alive. Serious injury/death is the outcome if you don't do what you have been trained, or by Murphy showing up, but is the one thing we all want to avoid at all costs right?


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