Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel!

 


SCR10480  (D 27870)

Dec 31, 2003, 11:27 AM
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My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! Can't Post

Hi Everyone. I need some help here...I have a new Sabre2 150 (loaded @ 1.3) and am getting snivels in the 1600- 1800 foot range. It also does the left/right "turn and seek" that have been mentioned here on numerous occasions, but it's the VERY slow inflation that has me puzzled.

I do not fold, or stuff the nose and use the 525 micro line held with tube-sto's along with a ZP bag and 27" KL pilot.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 31, 2003, 11:53 AM
Post #2 of 24 (3541 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Give it to someone else to jump and also shoot video of the opening. I bet you'll find its more likely about 700-800 feet.

1600 foot snivel is approx 15 seconds. Thats a Streamer...


Ron

Dec 31, 2003, 12:11 PM
Post #3 of 24 (3526 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Everyone. I need some help here...I have a new Sabre2 150 (loaded @ 1.3) and am getting snivels in the 1600- 1800 foot range.

Thats called a malfunction


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Dec 31, 2003, 12:18 PM
Post #4 of 24 (3517 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Everyone. I need some help here...I have a new Sabre2 150 (loaded @ 1.3) and am getting snivels in the 1600- 1800 foot range. It also does the left/right "turn and seek" that have been mentioned here on numerous occasions, but it's the VERY slow inflation that has me puzzled.

I do not fold, or stuff the nose and use the 525 micro line held with tube-sto's along with a ZP bag and 27" KL pilot.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Do you have a neptune? Or any other electronic device that tells you canopy deployment altitude?

My Neptune said I was under canopy at 3800' when I waved off at 5700 and pulled. And no I did'nt feel anything like a snivel on opening. I think I was open before 4000'. I jumped the original sabre not the sabre2.


(This post was edited by KrisFlyZ on Dec 31, 2003, 12:48 PM)


PhillyKev

Dec 31, 2003, 12:18 PM
Post #5 of 24 (3516 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

So, for instance, you throw out at 3000 and have an open canopy at 1200 feet?

If that's really true, my suggestion is don't jump that thing anymore.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 31, 2003, 12:23 PM
Post #6 of 24 (3507 views)
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

So... if you waived at 5700 by the time you got around to throwing your hackey you were probally close to 5200 or 5000.

Do a search on here for some of my posts on why people think Snivels last longer then they really do.


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Dec 31, 2003, 12:29 PM
Post #7 of 24 (3502 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it took 1200' to open because the canopy would be fully inflated before I finished my 1000, 2000, ...5000 count. The videos of my jumps confirm this as well.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Dec 31, 2003, 4:22 PM
Post #8 of 24 (3428 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

The only solution to a 1600 foot snivel is to fedex it straight back to PD for their analysis.

Do not jump it again until it gets looked at by a profesional.

_Am


SCR10480  (D 27870)

Dec 31, 2003, 7:07 PM
Post #9 of 24 (3400 views)
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Re: [KrisFlyZ] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have a neptune? Or any other electronic device that tells you canopy deployment altitude?

______________________________________________________

Yes, I use a Skytronic that has me in the saddle at 1700 to 1900 (after a pitch at 3500) on ten of the only ten jumps made on this canopy. As for the consideration that "That's called a malfunction" or "You have a streamer" I admit holding the Oh Shit handle on more than one of these jumps.

The canopy does inflate, and you can tell it's going to open, it just takes forever.

Might a smaller slider help?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Dec 31, 2003, 7:40 PM
Post #10 of 24 (3395 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Might a smaller slider help?
I'd give PD a call before you do anything to the canopy. Actually, I'd give PD a call before you jump it again.

I've had a couple of real slow openings on my Spectre, but never anything over 1000 feet.


Junkers87  (C 70868)

Jan 5, 2004, 10:05 AM
Post #11 of 24 (3134 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you roll in the nose when you pack? If you do, don't!

I roll my nose, and my Sabre 2 190 usually snivels for 800-1000 ft. (Loaded @ 1,1).

Leaving the nose hanging should reduce the snivel. Smile


Zeemax

Jan 5, 2004, 1:44 PM
Post #12 of 24 (3106 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

my Sabre2 loaded at 1 takes about 600 ft to open.. if that helps


TimDave  (D 25554)

Jan 5, 2004, 1:50 PM
Post #13 of 24 (3104 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you tried to use your altimeter to check your alitutde instead of relying on your Skytronic? I am pretty confident that the opening is less than what you think. What was your previous canopy since you said that this is new? It is possible that you are having an adjustment problem with your new canopy. If your old canopy opend more quickly your preception may be that it is taking so long. I am pretty sure that if you checked your altimeter you would notice that from the time you pitch your pilot chute to the time that you recognize a good canopy above your head that it will be 1000' or less. People like Brian Germain say that an opening of 800' is a malfunction. So when you you pitch at 3500' and look at your altimeter and it is reading 2000' feet when you are comfortable in the saddle, this is not a 1500' opening. Just a question and comment


SCR10480  (D 27870)

Jan 6, 2004, 1:26 AM
Post #14 of 24 (3051 views)
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Re: [TimDave] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks TimDave, some honest help is all I asked for. I reviewed video of the deployment several times tonight, and the canopy DOES NOT develop as one might expect. It's like a hung slider, then some inflation of the outer cells...then they deflate. eventually the cells on either side of center inflate, thus drawing the center taught so it too can inflate...bizzar.

As for my "Old canopies" I've had 2 Sabres, a Hornet, and also have a Stiletto. Just for the record, with a 3500' pitch on the Hornet, you'ld be in the saddle at 3450...I do mean WHAM!


TimDave  (D 25554)

Jan 6, 2004, 12:51 PM
Post #15 of 24 (2997 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

This sounds like a really weird opening. I have jumped the Sabre2 and noticed that it seemed to be "searching" a bit. They did not seem overly strange but enough to make you notice. 3 of the 4 previous canopies are teeth looseners since I have put jumps on both types and you are right. Have you tried moving the slider slightly more to the rear of the canopy just before wrapping the tail (assuming you PRO pack). This would allow the nose to catch the air more cleanly and hopefully open cleaner. Another question (if you PRO pack) is doe you push the nose back into the pack? If so, try not doing this as another experiment. Try only one thing at a time to see what happens. One last thiing, has the trim been checked?


SCR10480  (D 27870)

Jan 6, 2004, 5:58 PM
Post #16 of 24 (2962 views)
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Re: [TimDave] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah TimDave, I do PRO pack. As for trim, well it's a brand new canopy...custom. I have been leaving the nose completely alone, but have been drawing the slider (the front 1/4) to the front of the pack. As it sits now, waiting for a weather break (Oregon is in deep winter "doo doo" as I write) the slider is entirely internal. I also only wrapped the tail enough to get the bundle on the floor, where as before I sorta restrained it "Stiletto" fashion. I'm sure it's something I'm doing...just don't know what...yet. I do know that I'm tired of needing a calender instead of altimeter during deployment.

Thanks so much for you time and help.

Greg


TimDave  (D 25554)

Jan 6, 2004, 6:36 PM
Post #17 of 24 (2955 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a thought on the trim. I have seen new canopies fresh from the factory with very bad trim. If you are waiting for the weather to break, measure it with your rigger, good use of time on the ground. It can't hurt. Try pulling the slider towards the rear more and make sure that you are not pushing the nose in and you may see a difference. I am curious to hear of the results.

Tim


SCR10480  (D 27870)

Jan 7, 2004, 8:51 AM
Post #18 of 24 (2918 views)
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Re: [TimDave] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Very good idea. The trim never entered my mind, but, as with all things made by hand.

I'll head over to the DZ and perform the check...as you said, it's a good use of down time.

I will keep you posted.

Greg


kay2four  (C 17773)

May 17, 2008, 9:46 AM
Post #19 of 24 (2479 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have a new (2006) sabre2 with about 40 jumps on it. I have 10 on it myself and have had 600-800 ft. openings. I was looking here to see if anyone else was having snivel issues. I love the force of the openings but it can be unnerving, and potentially dangerous. I have tried tucking and not tucking the nose with mixed results. Also have end cell closure on each jump. I will be watching for suggestions


labrys  (D 29848)

May 17, 2008, 4:06 PM
Post #20 of 24 (2410 views)
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Re: [kay2four] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I also have a new (2006) sabre2 with about 40 jumps on it. I have 10 on it myself and have had 600-800 ft. openings. I was looking here to see if anyone else was having snivel issues. I love the force of the openings but it can be unnerving, and potentially dangerous.

Laugh When I first started reading this thread I thought "Wow, Ron and PhillyKev are back" and then I realized it was 4+ years old.

600-800 feet seems to me to be a perfectly acceptible opening range. My Sabre2 170 takes 900 easily and my 150 takes about 600-700. Does anyone else think those are 'potentially dangerous"? I'm really happy with the slow openings.

My 170 also has closed end cells almost every opening. Those don't bother me either. Pulling down on the rears pops 'em right out.


erdnarob  (D 364)

May 17, 2008, 5:05 PM
Post #21 of 24 (2388 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a Sabre 2-170 for about 400 jumps loaded at 1.5 and it was opening on an average of 340 feet (average on 10 jumps and calculated from altitude-time graphs downloaded from the Vigil using the Vigil interface and software) that was confirmed by the graphs downloaded from the PROTRACK using the software and interface for the PROTRACK this time.
BTW I did the same with my Katana 170 and found that it was opening on an average of 600 feet which is softer.

Anyway, using your altimeter before pulling and after inflation could likely lead to erroneous results. Why? Because the pressure at your wrist influencing the altimeter is very variable.
If you don't have access to a PROTRACK with interface + software, I suggest you to use an audible altimeter set for instance at 5000 feet. Have an eye on your altimeter around 6000 feet and have your hand ready on the hackey at that time and when you hear the beeper at 5000 feet pull immediately. Try to check the altitude of your altimeter as soon as the parachute is open and before releasing the brakes. Since you have slowed down your altimeter reading should be more accurate. Now, you should probably deduct say 200 feet to allow for the reflex time before pulling and after opening when looking at your altimeter. It will be even better if you repeat this experience several times by taking note of the results and do an average.
1600 feet to open is not at all acceptable but I have some doubt about your evaluation method. The method explained above should yield more realistic results.


Broke  (A License)

May 17, 2008, 5:05 PM
Post #22 of 24 (2386 views)
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Re: [SCR10480] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

YOu could always pack it slider down

Or send it to PD


d123  (B 6134)

May 17, 2008, 6:23 PM
Post #23 of 24 (2371 views)
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Re: [erdnarob] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Andre,

Wouldn't the error in the altimeter be constant in all the cases?
I mean if you open a Nav at 5000 and it takes @ 500 feet to open (reading the altitude difference from pitch to saddle) and you open you Spectre at 4000 and it takes 1000 feet to open doesn't this mean that the Spectre takes +500 to open compare with Nav?

How's your golden handle? I've meet you at Twin-Otter Boogie last! Hope it's going to be another one this year!

Blue skies boils so I wish you hazy & humid skies with good visibility to everybody!
Jean-Arthur Deda.


(This post was edited by d123 on May 17, 2008, 6:26 PM)


maurice1369  (A 52669)

May 18, 2008, 10:59 AM
Post #24 of 24 (2193 views)
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Re: [kay2four] My Sabre2 has a 1600 foot snivel! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Sabre2 190 with a DOM of DEC 2007. I have put almost 100 jumps on it so far and other than the 90 degree turn to the left I have never had any problems with any snivel. It used to take me 1000 feet for the canopy to fully inflate but all I had to do is quarter the slider a little more and I now have consistent 600-700 ft openings. In my experience with Sabre2's any problems you have with the canopy sniveling usually falls on the packing method. If you are the one packing the canopy and you get the snivel then you should pay for a packjob and see if you have the same snivel. In the end if you still get the same snivel you may want to contact PD and see if there is a problem with the line trim or the canopy itself.



But then again that is my 2 cents



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