Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-(

 


Krishan  (D 26361)

Mar 30, 2001, 2:00 PM
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Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( Can't Post

Hi all. What's up. Everyone ready for the weekend? I sure as hell am. I'm going flying and skydiving and planning on doing my first camera jump, should be great.
Anyway, I'm posting this here because no one ever responds in the Photography forum. I am going to be using a camera helmet that weighs about 5-6 pounds with the camera on it. Does anyone have any advice to save my neck (Literally) on opening. What techniques do you use? I have a saber 170 and it usually opens fairly brisk. Any advide on how to slow that down, I do roll the nose a good amount.

Anyway, any advice would be awesome. Everyone have a kickass weekend and BLUES.

Krishan



SkySlut  (D License)

Mar 30, 2001, 2:08 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

hold your head while you are dumping so it doesnt snap.

"I'll jump anything!"


tigra  (C 27417)

Mar 30, 2001, 6:27 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I've never jumped with a camera, but will you be wearing a winged camera suit? When I first started jumping a sit suit, I was told to bring my arm in as I reached back to toss my pc. The wing can catch air and cause a nasty twist. Line twists and hard openings go hand in hand, and both are especially dangerous with a camera on your head.


My sabre has a tendency to open briskly too, and I've gotten in to the habit of sort of bracing myself for the opening. But I'm tired of that, so I bought a Spectre! Big difference!

Good luck! Be safe and have fun!



BarrettJ99  (D 24173)

Mar 30, 2001, 11:24 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Advice would be to ditch the sabre and buy a spectre... I'm betting that you really don't have that option though.

-T1
C-30757


Geoff

Mar 31, 2001, 1:37 AM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Sabres do bang open on occasions - one damaged my neck and I was wearing a normal helmet!

A much cheaper alternative to a Spectre is to get a 'pocket' slider made to slow the opening of the Sabre - or even just a larger slider. Check with your rigger or PD before doing either though. Larger sliders can actually speed up the openings depending on the geometry.

You won't see many long-time camera jumpers using Sabres with standard sliders.

Geoff



FallRate  (A 35970)

Apr 3, 2001, 11:50 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw video of a sabre opening that resembled a bomb going off: look...reach...pitch.*BAM*

FallRate



Groundrush  (A License)

Apr 4, 2001, 12:45 AM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Take a look at this link: http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm

I got a sabre 170 that opens quite fast so I'm going to try this.

Blue skies...



MC208B  (A 35654)

Apr 5, 2001, 6:35 PM
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I usually use one of those cheap throwaway cameras for my jumps!



Tee  (C License)

Apr 6, 2001, 10:08 AM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I can pack about an 800 ft snivel on my Sabre and therefore have a sweet opening everytime! I roll the nose about 4 times and gently tuck it into the centre cell and I also roll the tail nice and tight. Just be careful if you are pulling low due to flying camera because the snivel is so long.

Tee



parachutist  (D 25468)

Apr 26, 2001, 10:34 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I asked the same question about 2 years ago & got some good advice: before deploying, point your head down... ie: pull your chin against your chest. this has 2 benefits...

1) it keeps the camera well away from the risers while canopy deploys.
2) when your head is already pulled as far as it will go down, there is no way for it to get yanked down as canopy snatches your body.

Chris



Kris  (D 26033)

Apr 26, 2001, 11:28 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

If it is a consistent problem, talk to your rigger about having a pocket put onto your slider. There's a reason why it's also called a 'camera pocket. My Sabre 210 went from instant openings to consistent 400-600' footers and if I really try I can pack 1000' of snivel into it.

I think my rigger here charged me all of $40 to do it.





Tee  (C License)

Apr 27, 2001, 7:19 AM
Post #12 of 20 (1317 views)
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What techniques do you use? I have a saber 170 and it usually opens fairly brisk. Any advide on how to slow that down, I do roll the nose a good amount.
Hey Krishan. I jump a Sabre as well and was only bit on my first jump with it. Ever since then, I have been rolling the nose about 4 times and tucking the outside 4 cells into the centre cell (not far, just enough to keep it in there) as well as rolling the heck out of the tail. I have nice soft opening in about 800 feet from deployment.

Hope it helps!

Tee





Krishan  (D 26361)

Apr 27, 2001, 7:30 AM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks people. I appreciate the input. Lately I have been rolling the hell out of my nose and it has been working okay. So I think I'll just stick with that.

Blues

Krishan



jcoller  (D 25966)

Apr 30, 2001, 8:09 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Sabre 170 loaded at about 1.2 and usually have nice long snivels. I don't even roll the nose.
I had a couple of hard openings and a guy told me about quartering the slider. I know we have all been taught this, but I neved did it quite his way. I haven't had a hard opening since (about 100 jumps ago).

Quartering the slider is the last step before wrapping the tail around the Propack. To quarter the slider, you need to make sure the edges of the slider are pulled out through the pack job between the slider grommets and the line groups. Of course, make sure the correct slider edge is pulled between the corresponding two line groups! You get 4 v-shaped folds (the slider edges) sticking out over the pack job (like a cross). Then I wrap the tail around and stick it in the D-bag. Seems to work great for me.
Maybe try lengthening the line stows as well? I make the locking stows so I have just enough slack at the end to easily get the D-bag in the container. Have never even come close to a bag-lock.

My worst opening was my own damn fault. It was a low ceiling day so we were doing hop-n-pops from as low as 2500'. The chute opens way slow when you are sub-terminal. Scarily slow. So... In order to make it open faster I A) didn't roll the nose, B) didn't quarter the slider (as above), C) shortened the line stows and D) overlapped the tail slightly (didn't roll it). I get in the airplane, the ceiling opens up... We get out at about 7 grand.... I forget about my special pack job and WHAMO! Ouch. That hurt.


Blue Skies






Emma

May 1, 2001, 5:32 AM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I've only ever jumped a Sabre (135) and I assumed everyone quartered the slider anyway....If you don't quarter it, what else do people do with it?

Anyway, I also picked up another tip re the slider only last weekend, which has worked really well.

When you quarter it, make sure you pull out more of the slider towards your body so it is not divided equally into quarters - ie, there is more slider material towards you than there is in front...Geddit?

Helped me a lot, I am finally looking forward to saying farewell to 'Sabre back', that well-known ailment...

E



jcoller  (D 25966)

May 3, 2001, 2:37 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Before the "quartering" tip I would make sure that it was "quartered" by checking to see that the slider was not all balled up or anything, but I never bothered to make sure the slider egdes were sticking out of the pack job through the line groups.



cameramonkey  (D 24467)

May 3, 2001, 5:13 PM
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1) it keeps the camera well away from the risers while canopy deploys.
2) when your head is already pulled as far as it will go down, there is no way for it to get yanked down as canopy snatches your body.
interesting theory, but doesnt always work. unless you can comfortably rest your chin on your chest with no stress on the back of your neck (without opening your mouth), it doesnt work. My chiropractor actually recommended re-arching with your head back. any opening forces will be distributed straight down the spine where it is more apt to handle the stress.

Personally I tuck my chin when I pitch, but as soon as I feel line stretch, I re-arch. this keeps the gear out of the way until the lines are clear.



michael

May 3, 2001, 10:47 PM
Post #18 of 20 (1088 views)
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

Dont forget the saftey factor.
When I first started jumping camera I had a Batwing 116 that used to have blinding openings. It hadnt really bothered me while doing 4-way. When I started camera I used to do that - reach, head to chest, pitch, BAM, 9 cells. It ocurred to me that if my head is in my chest while the canopy is leaving the container/D-bag, how much longer is it going to take to respond to a mal? Also factored in the likihood of a fast opening/therefore fast slider descent which had a wondeful habit of blasting down and covering my top mounted 35mm stills. Picture that - open, linetwists (spinning, spinning..), trying to get slider off camera before cutting away. Yuck.
So, I made the descision to buy a canopy that suited what i was doing (stiletto 120 - shouldnt have changed in the first place).
Anyway..just something else to think about. If youre not able to look at your canopy as its opening, its costing you a few extra seconds if things go bad.



MatthewScott  (Student)

May 3, 2001, 11:26 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1085 views)
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

I am going to be using a camera helmet that weighs about 5-6 pounds with the camera on it. Does anyone have any advice to save my neck (Literally) on opening. What techniques do you use?


I don't know if this will help or not but I saw a camera man at my dropzone use this technique on the ground. He was showing someone how he uses it in the air. Anyway, what you do is make a fist with either hand then place it (knuckles up) under you chin and use it to brace your head and neck.
Hope this helps someone.

Matthus-
Blues skies-



freeflyguy  (D 24207)

May 4, 2001, 7:39 AM
Post #20 of 20 (1067 views)
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Re: Dump----->WHACK!!! Ow :-( [In reply to] Can't Post

  

I have 150 jumps on a Sabre 170. Now, I have no issues at all with how they open. I did though, so... The hard openings got so bad that I began to have a phobia about deploying. Not a good thing for skydiving. So I worked on it, and haven't had a bad opening for 75 jumps or so. Here is what I have collected.

Pack careful. 4 or 5 rolls on each side of the nose, lightly push them into the center of the pack, not very far. Don't tuck them in the center cell or anything (Potential Mal). The slider is super important. Set it too the stops and quarter it, then pull the back edge back (toward the rig) This actually the leading edge of the slider, over the nose. Just to where the front edge (actually the back of the slider as you are under canopy) is almost even with the lines. Very important, if it doesn't catch air, you will get a spine adjustment. Then wrap and roll the tail good.
Get a good firm bite on your stows, to prevent line dump.

Here is the kicker that people don't seem to talk about much. You will NEVER get a hard opening if you don't deploy it... Simple, no? What that means is that the way you deploy is as important as the way you pack. Trust me.

If you have forward speed, your slider has a chance to catch your burble. Ouch.

If you try to get big, to slow down, you have a bigger burble, and the same whack may happen.

So body postion on opening needs to be controlled. Slow down your forward speed, or stop and backslide a bit, if you are clear of your mates and have time. Don't get too big, the vertical speed won't kill you, if you let the air catch your slider. Fly your opening on heading with your body in your harness, then your rear risers, and you are good.

I have no issues with Sabre openings anymore.

Blue ones...






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