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DC-9 Jet at Perris

 

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scottjaco

Oct 17, 2003, 10:19 PM
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DC-9 Jet at Perris Can't Post

I just heard about the DC-9 Jet at Perris.

I did a search and found out that people have been talking about this on Dropzone.com since January!

Is there any new information about this plane?

Why does it take so long to make it skydive friendly?

Shit!... the thing is soo big...why not just let people sit in the seats just like regular passengers?

What is the hold up?

thanks,
scott


lazyfrog

Oct 18, 2003, 12:37 AM
Post #2 of 278 (8490 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanna jump it too


skidyver11074  (D 11074)

Oct 18, 2003, 3:40 AM
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

We don't have the DC-9 yet in Perris. It's in progress and I'll try to get more info on this to post.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 18, 2003, 7:42 AM
Post #4 of 278 (8415 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that the runway needs expanded to allow room for the jet. When I was there in May the one end of the runway was tillte more then a tar and graveled runway. The DC9 woill need a full concrete runway so untill you see the other end of the runway get removed and a new extended runway put in, I'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Wink


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Oct 18, 2003, 7:48 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Wink

Like a contrail?


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 18, 2003, 10:36 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Shouldn't be a problem, maybe the air force base or some other runway nearby could serve as the loading base. It wouldn't be convenient, but it wouldn't be done very often anyway.Cool


lummy  (A 40776)

Oct 18, 2003, 12:39 PM
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Re: [skidyver11074] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Jillie bean, whatcha doing on DZ.com at 4 in the morning? 4am is early even for you :)


geronimo

Oct 18, 2003, 6:09 PM
Post #8 of 278 (8296 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just heard about the DC-9 Jet at Perris.
Is there any new information about this plane?
scott

You can read the old stuff here:
Airplane Performance
Perris Airport

Airplane Characteristics for Airport Planning

DC 9 Family
DC-9 Specs

.


scottjaco

Oct 18, 2003, 7:48 PM
Post #9 of 278 (8266 views)
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Re: [geronimo] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the specs!

Wow, That must have taken a lot of balls for a Drop Zone to buy a jet for their jumpers. I'm impressed!

.....and to think I was bitchin about the jump ticket prices.
It will be well worth it to be the first drop zone in the world to own a jet of any type for skydivers.

thanks,
scott


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Oct 19, 2003, 3:14 AM
Post #10 of 278 (8241 views)
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Re: [geronimo] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool! Us skydivers are listed as an "attraction"!! Tongue

ltdiver


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Oct 19, 2003, 12:19 PM
Post #11 of 278 (8191 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

>Why does it take so long to make it skydive friendly?

Well, for one thing, it needs new engines. That could take a while.


PurpleBadger

Oct 19, 2003, 1:21 PM
Post #12 of 278 (8180 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

They ain't bought it yet, but they did buy a wind tunnel to keep us all excited till they do Cool


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Oct 19, 2003, 3:19 PM
Post #13 of 278 (8152 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The DC9 woill need a full concrete runway so untill you see the other end of the runway get removed and a new extended runway put in, I'd think the jet is like the WFFC one Wink

Well phree don't be suprised if this one becomes the WFFC one, since it will be owned by a dropzone. I doubt it will run on any given tuesday but I can see it making most of the big summer boogies.

Don't worry about the runway, Perris also owns a whole bunch of earth moving equiptment. You should know this if you were surveying where not to land while under canopy back in may.


scottjaco

Oct 19, 2003, 5:20 PM
Post #14 of 278 (8117 views)
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Re: [PurpleBadger] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, the runway shouldn't be too hard to extend.....

Now I'm hearing that they haven't bought it yet?
Are you sure? Everyone says they bought it like 8 months ago!

Now they need new engines? that sounds like another big setback! Why would you buy a plane that needed new engines? You wouldn't buy a used car that needed a new engine? (unless it's a classic) could someone who knows planes explain the pros/cons of this purchase?

thanks,
scott


diverdriver  (D 19012)

Oct 19, 2003, 5:43 PM
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Not many jets have an airstair door like the 727 or DC-9. You're limited in choices. They don't make these planes anymore. A 727 takes more runway to takeoff and land on than a DC-9. A 727 also requires 3 crew members as opposed to 2 for a DC-9. Even if new planes were available to fit this roll the purchase price would be astronimically higher.

I have just one thought about what someone commented earlier. They said something like "it will only be used occasionally for special events."

In aviation, "expensive plane" and "not used a lot" don't cut it. I can see a lot of issues trying to make this plane even break even.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 19, 2003, 6:36 PM
Post #16 of 278 (8095 views)
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Re: [diverdriver] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't you think Perris must have the runway length for it to take off empty? Doesn't seem wise to land at an airport that isn't long enough to allow a takeoff.

You can read all those performance charts, is it allowed?

Maybe Perris is really just a last resting place for this bird like Marana is for so many old jets.

Sure would be a great way to get to all the Boogies!Cool I used to say that Kapowsin got their Otter because their Porter just didn't hold enough stuff for their large family to travel comfortably.Tongue Maybe this is an exaggerated version of that.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Oct 19, 2003, 6:49 PM)


scottjaco

Oct 19, 2003, 7:35 PM
Post #17 of 278 (8071 views)
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Re: [diverdriver] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In aviation, "expensive plane" and "not used a lot" don't cut it. I can see a lot of issues trying to make this plane even break even.

Quote:

Yes, I agree....but what about the Skyvan at Perris?

They only run it on weekends and then, only if it's a busy weekend. Normally they run 2 otters while the 3rd otter is being used some place else. The skyvan sits there and collects dust.

If they got the dc 9 working....I would be up there every weekend. It would crush the competition.

scott


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 19, 2003, 7:45 PM
Post #18 of 278 (8066 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If they got the dc 9 working....I would be up there every weekend. It would crush the competition.

It would be fun for the novelty of jumping a jet, but it wouldn't really be a good everday jump plane because you can't get many out the narrow door quickly and it fast speed would make for a lot of out landings.

But, like I said, jet jumps would be popular at big boogies, and what better way to get there and take a few dozen friends?


Kris  (D 26033)

Oct 19, 2003, 7:52 PM
Post #19 of 278 (8059 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed. I would love the chance to jump from a jet but after a few jumps the novelty would wear off pretty quickly.

While I do love CASA's and Skyvan's, I still prefer to do RW and freefly from Otters. There's just something about that door I like for setting up exits.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 19, 2003, 8:30 PM
Post #20 of 278 (8048 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Skyvans are pretty mainentence intensive planes compared to Otters. And a Skyvan is only a fraction of the price of a DC9.

There is a reason that the WFFC had leased a jet for a lot of years. The purchase cost, maintence, and now the biggest killer insurance was EXPENSIVE. I have no idea the actual cost of the stuff but I know it was large.

The only boogies that have the facilities to support a DC9 are WFFC and Richmond. Considering the C130 did'nt return to Richmond I don't think the summer boogie circuit has quite the draw that it did only a few years ago. Even the DC-3 and Beech 18 flew only a few loads a day at WFFC this year and they did'nt have NEAR the min per load number you'd need for a DC9 to fly jumpers.

A Jet jump is a novelity jump, after 2 or 3 jumps from novelity aircraft they usually lose their appeal (I'm still waiting for my Jet jump) and then the aircraft are not used that frequently again till a new generation of jumpers are seeking out a new novelity (like jumpers are looking at a DC-3 as a novelity anymore Sly) for their logbooks.

Unless the plane is going to be used for cargo also I can't believe that it would break even on flying jumpers.


scottjaco

Oct 19, 2003, 8:46 PM
Post #21 of 278 (8041 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose you are right about people having trouble with the large group exits! The doorway is pretty small!

I don't think that people would get sick of it though.

1) The plane can probably make it to altitude in half the time of an otter or skyvan.

2) You can expect better altitude like say 14K. The same way you get a little extra altitude out of a King Air.

scott


Kris  (D 26033)

Oct 19, 2003, 8:53 PM
Post #22 of 278 (8035 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Spending 2x (or more) the normal jump ticket price for a faster ride and *possibly* a bit better altitude wouldn't grab me.

For anything bigger than a 4-way you'd eat up the extra altitude just trying to get the base together and flying the distance to the formation due to the much higher exit speed.

Now...taking my new Bird-Man GTi out of it would be quite the fun time as I would like to see if I could get over the top of the jet on exit.Cool


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Oct 19, 2003, 8:58 PM
Post #23 of 278 (8033 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

13.5-14k is standard in the Midwest almost everywhere with a turbine Tongue

I've done my Pitts jump, I really don't want to do another. I've jumped the C130, and at the price I really see no need to do another. Only things I want to jump yet are the B17/B24 and the 727 (I want a DB Cooper number Sly)

Don't count on a faster climb rate. Sure it will get up top in only 5 minutes or so, but it will take a lot longer then that to be lined up on jump run. The 727 at WFFC I guess was taking 12-14 minutes to take off, circle around and do jump run #1, it would then do a go around and increase its speed for jump run #2. Thats a long wait for Jump run #2.

Large exits a problem? 2 way linked exits are an issue on a Jet pass. There is video on the net of grippers getting ripped off of a 2 way that tried to launch a linked piece out of the 727. Jets are worthless for Tandems or AFF. Do you have 60-75 people standing around all day that are willing to make 5-6 loads where building speed stars is about the largest thing they can do? Thats what it takes to operate a jet full time. Think of the door as being a King Air that are no floaters allowed on it, and jump speed is increased.

I'm not saying its impossible, but there are going to be alot of issues keeping a Jet full time for jumpers.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Oct 19, 2003, 10:30 PM
Post #24 of 278 (8002 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
And a Skyvan is only a fraction of the price of a DC9.

Actually, I think you'll find that given the number of jets parked in the desert right now, you can pick up a jet VERY cheaply. The numbers I heard were around 300,000 for a jet without a lot of hours left on it.

Granted this isn't exactly cheap, but if you can keep your maintenance down (read: don't use it much) I can imagine that it's possible to break even.

This is certainly the time to buy with so many jets rusting in the desert. It'd be smart for a DZ to buy now in cash, sit on it until the industry picks up, which conceivably could be next year, and the run then boogie circuit.

I think with the big old planes, it's not as crutial that they run continuously. For example, Otters run less then Caravans.

_Am


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 20, 2003, 12:29 AM
Post #25 of 278 (7983 views)
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Re: [scottjaco] DC-9 Jet at Perris [In reply to] Can't Post

>1) The plane can probably make it to altitude in half the time of an otter or skyvan.

Only an issue if a DZO is expecting to be able to put, say, 30 loads out of it a day. At any place other than the WFFC, it's very, very hard to get 100 people per load to turn that fast. Especially when you can't use it for AFF, static line, big ways or 4-way team practice.

>2) You can expect better altitude like say 14K. The same way you get a
> little extra altitude out of a King Air.

At Perris, altitude is not really limited by aircraft performance. Many times we'll get to 12.5 and the otter will level off and fly for 2-3 minutes lining up for jump run. No reason to expect the jet would not do the same.


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