Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
GEAR

 


freebird  (A 38952)

Jan 13, 2002, 3:26 PM
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GEAR Can't Post

What is better for someone who wants a really docile canopy a triathlon or sabre? Im about 100 pounds 150 or 135? I want something docile but that will also penatrate winds above 10 mphs.



Jimbo  (D License)

Jan 13, 2002, 3:31 PM
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

 
[STANDARD ANSWER]
Talk to your jumpmasters. They're the only ones who have seen you jump. They're the only ones who can answer that question.
[/STANDARD ANSWER]

How about a series of 'sticky' postings or FAQs answering things like this that stay at the top of the fourm. Included might be things like, "I just did my first jump, what should I buy", "I have 33 jumps and want to buy a Velocity 79, is that a good idea?", etc...





Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Jan 13, 2002, 3:40 PM
Post #3 of 19 (1366 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

Thoses are 2 totally different canopys. 7 Cell Vs 9 cell.
The real determinate is your flying style and jump numbers.
Based on the type of questions and your profile, I'm saying you are still on student gear and are looking for your first rig right?
If you are a docile pilot then I'd say go with a Spectre, Tri, or even Omega. If you are planning on becoming more aggressive in the future, look at the Sabre, Safire, or any other NON-ELLIPTICAL ZP main.
As for the size, since I'm a bit of a Canopy Nazi (Number #2 on here actually) I'd say go to the 150 for a couple of dozen jumps and then you should be able to determine if its too big. BUT make sure to tranistion slowly to the 150 from the student gear if you are currently jumping larger gear.
Even a docile canopy not loaded that much can pound you into the ground. I weight 170 and jump a 150 and am on the ground for the next 4-6 weeks due to a botched landing yesterday. Any advice given on these fourms is just that advice, no-one here can see you fly your canopy to make personal judgement calls. so just keep your eyes, ears and mind open to everything at all times. Talk to people who have seen you fly your current canopy and talk them about your decision for your next canopy.
No matter what you decide on, get used. You can save a ton of money and get gear in good condition at the same time. Do'nt run out and order all new gear before looking at used at least. If you have any questions please Private message me or anyone else for more specifics.

I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Jan 13, 2002, 3:42 PM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 13, 2002, 5:24 PM
Post #4 of 19 (1335 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

imho, Triathlon or Spectre if you want a reasonably docile canopy; easy to fly and land yet still fun. Sabre's are relatively docile if lightly loaded but seven cells like the Tri or Spectre are in my opinion easier to land. The current version of the Omega has some heavy toggle pressure; if you don't have really good upper body strength it might be a bit much for you.

For sizing, talk with your instructors, yes, but also consider what kind of flying you want to do. If you want to do RW, considering your weight you'll "probably" have to wear weights to fly with the guys and therefore may want to go with a 150 since weights increase your exit weight. If you're planning to only freefly you could likely go with a 135 since you probably won't need weights.

Demoing a couple of canopy types and sizes before you buy anything is the hot tip regardless. Smile

pull and flare,
lisa
--


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 13, 2002, 5:25 PM
Post #5 of 19 (1335 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

>How about a series of 'sticky' postings or FAQs answering things like this that stay at the top of the fourm.

Yeah, we discussed that on the main board a while back. My idea was a "postbot" that automatically replies to questions like "Isn't an RSL dangerous?" or "Are AAD's mandatory?" with a condensed version of the entire argument that usually ensues.

-bill von


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 13, 2002, 5:29 PM
Post #6 of 19 (1334 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

>What is better for someone who wants a really docile canopy a triathlon or sabre?

Triathalon is more docile in my experience. Others I have had good luck with include the Silhouette and Spectre. 9 cells generally penetrate wind slightly better than 7 cells.

>Im about 100 pounds 150 or 135? I want something docile but that will also penatrate winds above 10 mphs.

Depends entirely upon your skill. A 100 pound woman doing RW will generally weigh around 125 at exit, 135-140 with weights (often needed.) I would not go above 1:1 until you have some experience with non-student canopies. Ask your instructors or an experienced jumper you trust to evaluate your landing skills, and see if they have a recommendation.


-bill von


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 14, 2002, 8:17 AM
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

See below for a link to Aerodyne's recommended Triatholon wing loading charts:

http://www.aerodyneusa.com/triatspectab.html

A 135 main has 122 - 149 lbs exit weight listed for novices, a 120 main is 108 - 133 lbs.





Premier phreezone  (D License)
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Jan 14, 2002, 8:43 AM
Post #8 of 19 (1267 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

*Minimum exit weight is merely a recommended weight for optimum airfoil performance. It is acceptable to under-load a Triathlon in situations where additional docility is desired.


The company may recommened loading the canopy at that exit weight, but, does the novice really have the skill level to be flying something that size?
If a student goes through the typical student program they are trained on a BIG canopy (200+ feet). Most DZ's only teach the basics of how to land and leave the rest up to the student to learn at a later time. If a little student transitions from a 200+ foot canopy to the 135 with no in between canopies and coaching, its the same thing as a 150 pound guy stepping from a Sabre 150 to A VX 79 at 100 jumps just because thats the optimal laoding on that type of canopy.
Coaching and transitions to smaller canopies is the best way to stay safe and healthy in this sport.[

I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique


RemiAndKaren  (C 2328)

Jan 14, 2002, 8:47 AM
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

quote]its the same thing as a 150 pound guy stepping from a Sabre 150 to A VX 79 at 100 jumps just because thats the optimal laoding on that type of canopyWhile I agree that its good the get some coaching, I've got top call BULLSHITE on this one Phree....

The recommended novice wing load for a Tri is not "the same thing" as the optimal wingload on a xbraced swoopmonster.

Remi
Muff 914


skycat  (D 25740)

Jan 14, 2002, 9:46 AM
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

I see you jump in Houston, if you jump at Spaceland you are already probably jumping a Saber 150. The person to ask would be Chris Miller out there, he probably was not only your instructor, but one of the best canopy pilots out there. If you jump at Skydive Houston, you probably were under a 230 Superboat, but they do have a 190 rental rig for after student status, to help you start downsizing. Also within the next 2 weeks or so the canopy school out there will be starting up and it has tons to help a new jumper threw that period after student status.

kelli



MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 14, 2002, 9:51 AM
Post #11 of 19 (1247 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

"The company may recommened loading the canopy at that exit weight, but, does the novice really have the skill level to be flying something that size?"

Aerodyne has 3 wing loading ratings: novice, intermediate and advanced.

So while, yeah, you can underload the canopies, a novice should probably jump the novice wing loading.




Premier phreezone  (D License)
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Jan 14, 2002, 10:57 AM
Post #12 of 19 (1226 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

The point I was trying to get across (that I clearly needed to reword) is that if she is jumping a huge student rig and steps right to the novice wingloading on the Tri, its going to seem like a huge difference. The canopy is going to be super responsive compaired to what she was used to. Even though she will still be in the novice loading for it, its going to feel LIKE the transition from a 150 to a 79. What used to take a lot of muscle to make a turn now will happen with lots less effort. See where I'm going?.......

I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 14, 2002, 11:09 AM
Post #13 of 19 (1220 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah. Hopefully she hasn't been under a 200 sq ft canopy all this time though. A 100 lb student under one of those will go off DZ anytime someone on the ground sneezes.

Of course the problem then with the 135 ft Tri is that she won't know what to do when she flares and the canopy actually responds. Shocked




Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 14, 2002, 1:17 PM
Post #14 of 19 (1196 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

>So while, yeah, you can underload the canopies, a novice should probably jump the novice wing loading.

I've jumped Triathalons from 120 to 260 sq ft, and talked to Bill Hazlett about it. There is no danger in jumping a lighter than recommended loading. There are some people who will be better off doing just that. Only an instructor or experienced jumper who knows her flying skills will be able to make that call.

-bill von


freebird  (A 38952)

Jan 15, 2002, 11:04 AM
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

This is freebird. I trained on a 170. Then they got in the 150 (all sabres). I am 100 pounds. I have jumped a 135 Triathlon and stood it up on my first jump. I also jumped a 135 sabre I did not stand that one up on my first jump. I think it was a no wind day. I jump the 150 sabre because I am still renting. When I order my canopy my main concern is a canopy being docile in the event of a mal. Will a triathlon spin more than a sabre in with a line over?



skycat  (D 25740)

Jan 15, 2002, 11:31 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1121 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you the Tiffany that I'm thinking of, long blond hair, bought my old black with pink grippers jumpsuit?

Anyway, especially if you are, I put about 100 jumps on a Sabre 135 and also about 100 on a Saber 150. I would suggest staying with the 135 just for the ability to jump in wind. I remember you having a super hard time getting threw student status due to winds. I never had a line over but several times I've had tons of line twists and the canopy was super docile. As for the triathalon I would suggest talking to Diane I'm not sure if you know her, she is about our size blond short hair married to Scott the really tall guy who shoots video, and I think is going to be on a 4 way team out there. She has something like 500 jumps all on triathalons anywhere from a 160 to a 120.

Kelli



freebird  (A 38952)

Jan 15, 2002, 11:53 AM
Post #17 of 19 (1112 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes this is that Tiffany. I have a new 135 Sabre I don't have a container yet. I don't know if I want to trade in my sabre for a triathlon.



skycat  (D 25740)

Jan 15, 2002, 12:03 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1103 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

I would actually suggest posting over in the gear and rigging asking about the difference, or what people like or don't like about sabres and triathalons.



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 15, 2002, 2:06 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1084 views)
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Re: GEAR [In reply to] Can't Post

>When I order my canopy my main concern is a canopy being docile in the event of a mal.
>Will a triathlon spin more than a sabre in with a line over.

No way to accurately predict what a canopy will do during a mal. During the filming of _Drop_Zone_ they had a lot of trouble trying to film the cutaway scene because the mals were so wild and unpredictable - they ended up using very large canopies to slow them down.

However, in _general_, a high aspect ratio canopy will spin more violently than a low aspect ratio canopy during a mal. A triathalon is a lower aspect ratio than a sabre, so you could probably expect it to spin less violently than the sabre if they are both the same size.

-bill von



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