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My first emergency exit

 

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BMFin

Sep 29, 2003, 8:46 AM
Post #1 of 71 (3973 views)
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My first emergency exit Can't Post

Yesterday 14 jumpers including me, were about to jump from a Twin Otter. Not much after take off I noticed the other engine RPMs went down compared to the other one. (that time about 500 ft / 150m AGL ) I thought it was odd, and I asked others if they knew what it was. No one seemd to be concernd so I just thought the pilots were joking around or something. Not much later we noticed the other propellor was not spinning at all. I still thought they were just playing around, but then I noticed the pilots were pretty busy in the cockpit, wich didnt look too promising. Then the captain announced "we have lost power from the other engine. We will have to make an emergency jump at 2000ft." (that time we were 1000 ft./300m. AGL) The jump master briefed the students and at about 2300ft / 700m we hop&popd above the landing area. Everyone landed safely. There were firetrucks waiting close to the runway. But The plane continued to another airport, where they are able to fix what ever is to be fixed.. We bought beer for the pilots who had brought the plane down safely.. Now we just have to wait and see how long time it will take to have our otter back in the air...

This was a fun jump.. Even though it was nothing dramatic, Im sure I wont forget for a while..
Wink


lazyfrog

Sep 29, 2003, 8:54 AM
Post #2 of 71 (3941 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

cool thing you're all back...
beer is a good idea
700m is low... my lowest exit was 600 meters... with a round, and no S/LTongue


Scoby  (A 41205)

Sep 29, 2003, 8:55 AM
Post #3 of 71 (3940 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you go out on your main or your reserve? I'm curious as to what the proper procedure is in this sort of situation. If you go on the main, you might be at or below your hard deck when your chute is deployed. OTOH, there is no second chance if your reserve fails. I think at 2K, I would go with the main, but the reserve any lower than that.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 29, 2003, 9:31 AM
Post #4 of 71 (3908 views)
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Re: [Scoby] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

>Did you go out on your main or your reserve?

Exits at 2000 feet, from a stable aircraft, are no problem under a main parachute, and is something everyone should practice. (At least the stable exit and deployment part.) Even if you have a very snively canopy, you have about as much time as if you'd waved off at 3000 and pulled at 2500. If your goal is a safe landing it might be foolish to give up on your second parachute; if your reserve mals you can't cut it away.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Sep 29, 2003, 9:53 AM
Post #5 of 71 (3897 views)
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Re: [Scoby] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

It's important to consider your "time to the ground". Exiting a stable aircraft at 2000 ft. is not the same as pulling at the same altitude while at terminal velocity. The 2000 ft. exit gives you much more time to deal with problems.

Kevin


sebas  (Student)

Sep 29, 2003, 10:07 AM
Post #6 of 71 (3882 views)
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Re: [kkeenan] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

True, but I've learned at AFF that you pull your reserve in an emergency exit between 1000 and 3000 ft...

But I guess the main is safe enough or am I wrong here?


Casch

Sep 29, 2003, 11:47 AM
Post #7 of 71 (3814 views)
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Re: [sebas] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

3000ft?? You might want to ask your instructors again...

I do hop&pops between 2800-3000ft, I think it would be pretty ridiculous to use your reserve at that altitude. I can understand pulling silver on a 1800-2000ft exit, 1500 for sure. But 3000 ft is more than enough altitude Unimpressed


Scoby  (A 41205)

Sep 29, 2003, 11:50 AM
Post #8 of 71 (3813 views)
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Re: [billvon] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

What altitude is low enough that you would go out on the reserve? I've observed that I don't use a lot of altitude opening when I do a hop n' pop. However, even a couple of hundred feet and a control check would be pretty close to hard deck. It's good to know that the main is ok at 2K, though.


PhillyKev

Sep 29, 2003, 12:00 PM
Post #9 of 71 (3803 views)
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Re: [Scoby] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Below 2k i'm going with the reserve, because of my AAD. If I didn't have one, I might go down to 1600 w/ my main.


kallend  (D 23151)

Sep 29, 2003, 12:24 PM
Post #10 of 71 (3784 views)
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Re: [PhillyKev] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Below 2k i'm going with the reserve, because of my AAD. If I didn't have one, I might go down to 1600 w/ my main.

Ah - someone that doesn't turn the CYPRES on and then skydive as if he doesn't have one!


freakydiver  (D 26421)

Sep 29, 2003, 12:48 PM
Post #11 of 71 (3773 views)
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Re: [kallend] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Has someone kidnapped Dr. K? Where is the real Dr. K?? WinkLaugh


winsor  (D 13715)

Sep 29, 2003, 2:03 PM
Post #12 of 71 (3758 views)
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Re: [Scoby] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What altitude is low enough that you would go out on the reserve? I've observed that I don't use a lot of altitude opening when I do a hop n' pop. However, even a couple of hundred feet and a control check would be pretty close to hard deck. It's good to know that the main is ok at 2K, though.

My reserve to main transition altitude is a function of canopy in use and venue.

If I'm jumping one of my EXTreme FX 99s in Lebanon, ME, where outs = big trees, I might not go to main below 3 grand unless I was sure I was over the DZ.

If I'm jumping one of my Raven IVs at Perris, I might use the main at 1,200 feet. I'll be under canopy above a grand and I can sink it in just about anywhere.

The decision altitude should be part of your preflight.


Blue skies,

Winsor


voodew1  (D 25988)

Sep 29, 2003, 2:52 PM
Post #13 of 71 (3733 views)
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Re: [winsor] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

emergency exit from 1250 out of an otter 18 went out on mains 2 went out on reserves. Still had plenty of time for line twist and controlabilty checks. The first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time.


PhillyKev

Sep 29, 2003, 2:59 PM
Post #14 of 71 (3727 views)
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Re: [voodew1] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time.

Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground.


BMFin

Sep 29, 2003, 4:18 PM
Post #15 of 71 (3691 views)
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Re: [Scoby] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Did you go out on your main or your reserve? I'm curious as to what the proper procedure is in this sort of situation. If you go on the main, you might be at or below your hard deck when your chute is deployed. OTOH, there is no second chance if your reserve fails. I think at 2K, I would go with the main, but the reserve any lower than that.


Everyone used their main. Some people did collect some freefall time also..

No problems.. I was open at 600m


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Sep 29, 2003, 6:01 PM
Post #16 of 71 (3649 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

For what its worth... my 2 cents... err... my plan :

1) 500ft to 1000ft... if something really really dramatic happens (i.e. lots of smoke and flames inside the airplane, wing falls off, airplane breaks in half), if I make it out... RESERVE... obviously.... might as well give it a shot. Anything less dramatic (i.e. the spinny thing stops), gonna stay with the aircraft and hope the pilot does a good enough job of crash landing it so he or she can walk away and we probably will too.

2) 1000ft to 1800ft and I gotta get out... my plan is RESERVE.

3) 1800ft to 2000ft is a bit of a grey area... but I'm still planning RESERVE.

4) 2000ft to 3000ft and I gotta get out... my plan is to go MAIN, but if it does anything by open, I'm gonna be quick on the handles.

5) Above 3000ft... that's a skydive... MAIN.

Above all though... in any aircraft emergency, jumpers should follow the instructions of the pilot. The last thing the pilot needs is a bunch of jumpers rushing to the back of the aircraft and turing a minor emergency into a major one.

------

Having said all of that though... I have 4 friends who un-assed themselves from a burning Queen Air at 900ft. They all through their Mains. They all made it, but in hind-sight they all said they went for the most familiar handle because they hadn't tought about it much. One of them in particular remembers throwing out his main, looking at the dirt and thinking, "This might not work", fortunately, it did. The pilot managed to tear-drop the airplane back onto the airport and belly it it and get out too with some minor injuries.

Smile


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 29, 2003, 6:26 PM
Post #17 of 71 (3642 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

>2) 1000ft to 1800ft and I gotta get out... my plan is RESERVE.

A good idea, but I can tell you from experience that if you don't practice this a LOT you will automatically go for your main. Try a low jump (say, 2500 or whatever) and exit with both hands on your reserve handle. Keep them open if you're worried about accidentally pulling it. Make sure you can exit stable in that position, count to 1 (or whatever's needed to clear the tail of your plane) and practice deploying the reserve. We tend to do what we're used to doing unless we train ourselves to do something else.


tobi778  (C License)

Sep 29, 2003, 10:01 PM
Post #18 of 71 (3616 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell, last saturday we jumped night jumps from 600m (about 1900ft) from our Cessna when the clouds wouldn't allow us to go any higher...Tongue
I was jumping my Vengeance 120 loaded 1.5ish and had no problems.

I hope you bought beer!!


dex  (D 26204)

Sep 30, 2003, 8:45 AM
Post #19 of 71 (3514 views)
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Re: [PhillyKev] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground.

Well if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours.


PhillyKev

Sep 30, 2003, 9:45 AM
Post #20 of 71 (3500 views)
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Re: [dex] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well if you are at 1250 feet with a cypres and you want to go out on your main remember your cypress does not activate until 1500 so the choice is still yours.

Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe...


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Sep 30, 2003, 12:39 PM
Post #21 of 71 (3470 views)
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Re: [PhillyKev] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
The first 1000 ft take 10 seconds pull out the door and be ready there is time.

Repeating my comment above...unless you have an AAD. That has the potential to kill you if you hit 750' (give or take) without a fully open parachute just as much as the ground.

Except in this case the aircraft only went to 1250 feet - i.e. it never got to 1500 feet for the Cypres to arm.

W


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 30, 2003, 1:44 PM
Post #22 of 71 (3448 views)
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Re: [PhillyKev] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

>Assuming the combination of the margin of error for your altimiter
> and cypress is within that 250' AND the air pressure on the ground
> has not changed since you calibrated either.....maybe...

If the air pressure decreases suddenly the cypres will arm lower AND fire lower. If it drops suddenly just before exit, and then rises suddenly shortly AFTER exit - it just might be your time to go.


PhillyKev

Sep 30, 2003, 3:10 PM
Post #23 of 71 (3428 views)
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Re: [billvon] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Come on now. You know there are burbles, and lots of other reasons to throw altimiters off. I frequently look around at other peoples wrists and see a couple hundred foot difference from one altimiter to another. Are you saying you implicity trust your cypress and your altimiter to function properly to within a couple hundred feet and would risk having 2 out? Relying on an AAD not to fire under less than ideal conditions sounds suspiciously like relying on an AAD to save your life. Not like you, Bill.


skydiverton  (D 123456789)

Sep 30, 2003, 11:36 PM
Post #24 of 71 (3381 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

2000FT is absolutely no problem. Just make a hop&pop with your face in the direction of flight. You can even take 3 seconds to be sure you are stable. You already have the projected speed (flying speed)

My lowest was 1700ft (freefall) No problem.

The only funny thing is most skydivers can do a hop&pop without problems exept when doing Canopy formation and at 2000ft

Congratulations with your first emergency-exit. This is where parachutes have been invented for


NoShitThereIWas  (D 25347)

Oct 7, 2003, 11:57 PM
Post #25 of 71 (3158 views)
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Re: [BMFin] My first emergency exit [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice job to everyone: the pilots, instructors, students, other jumpers and firemen standing by just in case Cool


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