Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Pulling Reserve?

 

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scotts  (D 26696)

Jan 6, 2002, 6:14 PM
Post #1 of 26 (2126 views)
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Pulling Reserve? Can't Post

If you're in a situation when you don't have time to cutaway your main and you pull your reserve, do the main risers get in the way of the reserve risers and cause any problems that might affect your ability to land.

Damn Power Lines !!!


tlshealy  (D 8142)

Jan 6, 2002, 6:36 PM
Post #2 of 26 (2109 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Your reserve risers, will force your main risers to the outside a little, but the toggles on the upper part of the risers should be clear. But there are a lot of different rigs and riser lengths out there, some could be different, but all systems should be designed to work either way.
Blue Skies.
Tad




Jimbo  (D License)

Jan 6, 2002, 6:42 PM
Post #3 of 26 (2104 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're in a situation when you don't have time to cutaway your main and you pull your reserve, do the main risers get in the way of the reserve risers and cause any problems that might affect your ability to land.
Sounds like you should have a chat with the folks at your DZ. This should have been covered in your AFF class.

That said, assuming that you didn't have the time to cut away - pulling your reserve is certainly better than nothing. The more nylon over your head the better. Two out is a dangerous thing though - you run the risk of creating a downplane, or worse a canopy entanglement where neither canopy is completely open or flying. I've seen both, a giant mess of canopy reserve and main after an ugly CReW accident, and watched another jumper with 2 out go into a downplane. They're not a good place to be. After all that, it is possible for the risers to become entangled as well The best way to avoid either situation is to have a good handle on your emergency procedures. Know which situations will require a cut away, know your decision altitude (When you're going to cut away), and finally remember to keep a cool head in an emergency.

I guess the answer to your question is yes, the main risers can get in the way of the reserve risers and cause a whole lot of problems that might affect your ability to land, or at least your ability to land in one unbroken piece.

-
Jim



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 6, 2002, 9:36 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2078 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

>If you're in a situation when you don't have time to cutaway your main and you
> pull your reserve, do the main risers get in the way of the reserve risers and
> cause any problems that might affect your ability to land.

The answer is maybe. In most cases, you'll still be able to get to what you need to (the rear risers or the toggles on one canopy.) In general, the canopies will open clear of each other, and you will be faced with eight risers. It's important to be able to tell main from reserve risers, which is one reason that reserve toggles are often a different color. There are some problems that could complicate this - for example, if you have really severe main line twists, the cutaway cables could become trapped and you won't be able to cut away. In such a case, the main risers could either force your head forward or back, making it more difficult to get to both sets of risers.

In most cases, though, you are more likely to have problems controlling the two canopies than you are getting to the 'controls' for both canopies. Some CRW training can go a long way here, and can help you either keep both canopies under control or safely separate them so the main can be chopped.

-bill von


Kirils  (D License)

Jan 6, 2002, 11:28 PM
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you have an attached RSL, why not just cut away and count on RSL deployment? Two canopies out with no time for a chop is not a good thing.

Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 6, 2002, 11:30 PM
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

TSO tests require demonstrating that the reserve will open with the main container both full and empty. Reserve risers push the main risers and riser covers out of the way and the reserve flies normally.
As for pulling your reserve ripcord without releasing a partially inflated main .... You decide whether you want to join the handful of skydivers who have survived canopy transfers or join the dozens, maybe hundreds who have died when their reserves entangled with partially inflated mains.



RemiAndKaren  (C 2328)

Jan 7, 2002, 12:47 AM
Post #7 of 26 (2053 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you have an attached RSL, why not just cut away and count on RSL deployment?
shivers........ (or good troll)

Some here know that I'm not a big RSL fan, but that in the end its a jumper's decision to jump with or without one.

But this is dangerous thinking..... Why not just cut away and wait for the CYPRES to fire?

Remi
Muff 914


(This post was edited by RemiAndKaren on Jan 7, 2002, 5:40 AM)


geoff

Jan 7, 2002, 4:47 AM
Post #8 of 26 (2034 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You decide whether you want to join the handful of skydivers who have survived canopy transfers or join the dozens, maybe hundreds who have died when their reserves entangled with partially inflated mains.
...or you might join the bunch who have died from cutting away low without time for a reserve to inflate.

Personally, if I was really low (say under 3-400 feet) and decided the main wasn't landable, I think an attempted canopy transfer, or at least just more nylon overhead might be the best option.

Geoff



freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 7, 2002, 10:05 AM
Post #9 of 26 (1992 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"or you might join the bunch who have died from cutting away low without time for a reserve to inflate."

Ummm...the answer...Don't get that low JACKASS!!! I have an analog altimeter, audible altimeter, and two MK-1 eyeballs which makes for a quadruple redundant altitude warning system........Smile



"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 7, 2002, 10:38 AM
Post #10 of 26 (1980 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

>>"or you might join the bunch who have died from cutting away low without time for a reserve to inflate."

>Ummm...the answer...Don't get that low JACKASS!!!

OK, question for you. You're on final, minding your own business, when an oblivious hook-turner slams into your canopy. He rips free after a second and goes spinning away. You've got an enormous hole in your canopy now, you're picking up vertical speed, and you're at 400 feet.

What do you do?

-bill von


mikefarmer  (D 19948)

Jan 7, 2002, 10:53 AM
Post #11 of 26 (1973 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK, question for you. You're on final, minding your own business, when an oblivious hook-turner slams into your canopy. He rips free after a second and goes spinning away. You've got an enormous hole in your canopy now, you're picking up vertical speed, and you're at 400 feet.
CANOPY TRANSFER!!!
And hope that I have enough forward airspeed to cause the reserve to begin inflation behind me at which point I would cut away and go for a swingeee. Not fun, but whatcha gonna do?


Mike
Sky World


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 7, 2002, 10:53 AM
Post #12 of 26 (1973 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"What do you do?"

That's an easy one.......Pull the reserve. You don't have any other choice...except crash to the ground and get broke. Flying two to the ground isn't that big of a deal. Not something I want to do every day but no big deal really....



"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:01 AM
Post #13 of 26 (1967 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Ummm...the answer...Don't get that low JACKASS!!! I have an analog altimeter, audible altimeter, and two MK-1 eyeballs which makes for a quadruple redundant altitude warning system........"

The dude may have been thinking about an A/C emergency....
And btw your system is only double redundant as the eyeballs are controlled by a single brain. It could even be argued that the analog alti is u/s without the eyeballs, making your altitude management system only single redundant.






freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:05 AM
Post #14 of 26 (1962 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"eyeballs are controlled by a single brain"

Ever taken a nipple to the eye? The other one still worked didn't it......Laugh

"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


prost  (D 24959)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:08 AM
Post #15 of 26 (1960 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Make a big dent in the ground.

With my landing approaches, if anyone hits me at 400 ft, I am toast (2.4 on an fx). I would only have about 3-4 seconds till I reach 0 ft anyway from that altitude.

The one good thing is that at the altitude I start my carve, I can still cut away if it got ugly.

William



Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 7, 2002, 11:15 AM
Post #16 of 26 (1954 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"What do you do?"

>That's an easy one.......Pull the reserve. You don't have any other choice.

(and)

>CANOPY TRANSFER!

Yep, the two options. Personally I wouldn't try a transfer unless my canopy was flying straight and at least gliding a little. Even from a cutaway at 400 feet you've got a real good chance of getting an open reserve before impact - both my rigs have opened within 60-100 feet from a cutaway during their TSO tests.


-bill von


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:17 AM
Post #17 of 26 (1952 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Personally I wouldn't try a transfer"

Me either.....I forgot my other emergency procedure in that situation. Scream like a 12 year old girl!

"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:27 AM
Post #18 of 26 (1949 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, and point taken, but you need two (nipple free) eyes for effective depth perception, and either way you still only have (at best, even accepting the eyes as independent altitude devices) three levels of redundancy....



freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 7, 2002, 11:32 AM
Post #19 of 26 (1946 views)
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"three levels of redundancy...."

You are correct sir...I must have left my engineering degree in my other pants.......Laugh



"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


skymedic  (C 33561)

Jan 8, 2002, 8:51 PM
Post #20 of 26 (1880 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but you need two (nipple free) eyes for effective depth perception
Your TWO eyes are only good for depth perception out to 30 feet....beyond that your brain will most definately rely on one eye(your dominant one)



marc
"...a mind stretched with new idea's will never regain its shape"


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Jan 9, 2002, 9:37 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1856 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't realise that, but now you mention it , and as I gaze out the window opening and closing one eye Wink, yeah, seems logical.
Thanks Marc.




freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 9, 2002, 10:24 AM
Post #22 of 26 (1837 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"but now you mention it , and as I gaze out the window opening and closing one eye"

It's been confirmed by exhaustive independant research!!!!!!!!!! Laugh

"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Jan 9, 2002, 10:36 AM
Post #23 of 26 (1833 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

ROFLMAO, not exhaustive, I've still gotta try and get that nipple in my eye at 400ft on finals....LOL



johnny1488  (D 25453)

Jan 9, 2002, 4:02 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1795 views)
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Why not just aim for the nearest set of powerlines! Or better yet a tree on the DZ driveway!! Ha haha. Stay heads up kentucky.

Johnny



freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jan 10, 2002, 10:41 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1745 views)
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Re: Pulling Reserve? [In reply to] Can't Post

"I've still gotta try and get that nipple in my eye at 400ft on finals"

I think that was covered in the "Sex in a tendem rig" post......Smile

"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"
Clay


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