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Riding the plane down......

 


skydivedevil  (Student)

Sep 11, 2003, 10:01 AM
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Riding the plane down...... Can't Post

Hello Everyone,

I am a newbie at Skydive Deland with just completing jump #12 yesterday. However it should have been #14. Last week I rode the plane down just because something didn't feel right. One of the regulars at the DZ said that he would go back up with me and as the old addage goes "once you fall off the bicycle you get back on". I went back up for the second jump. IT WAS AWESOME!
Fast forward to yesterday... I met with Scott Miller to do some canopy school training. Fisrt jump I flopped out of the plane however stabilized quickly , but I started to slightly turn, threw my canopy at 6000' landing was awful (in a mucky creek) in the student landing area. Went to go back up for my second jump of the day and all of a sudden, the anxiety took over. Once again I just couldn't get out of the plane and rode back down. I was so worried about making a perfect exit that I couldn't make the jump..
My questions to the forum are:
1) Do the "butterflies" ever go away?
2) And did any of you ever say 'Once I get out of this plane and on the ground, I'll never do this again"?
I LOVE SKYDIVING! Smile I really have no fear of freefalling and I enjoy being under canopy the most. I am just having a hard time getting off that "step". I have a GREAT support team at Deland. I would like to hear other views from fellow skydivers on how they felt the first couple of times they jumped and how did you overcome your fears. Thanks!


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Sep 11, 2003, 11:01 AM
Post #2 of 24 (1253 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Last week I rode the plane down just because something didn't feel right.

Hey this is nothing to be ashamed of. If you're not mentally ready to jump, DON'T jump.

In reply to:
I was so worried about making a perfect exit that I couldn't make the jump.

Try not to worry about making the perfect jump or the perfect exit, because they just don't exist (at least at our skill levels). The important thing is that you have the mental skills to act calmly and rationally in a very dynamic and intense environment.

In reply to:
Do the "butterflies" ever go away?

I'm lucky in that I rarely experience butterflies in the air. I usually feel anxiety before I jump, but that because of the lack of oxygen (I jump from 17500 feet MSL here in CO). But some people claim that it's healthy to have butterflies, so don't beat yourself up because you're not alone.

In reply to:
And did any of you ever say 'Once I get out of this plane and on the ground, I'll never do this again"?

Never cross my mind and I'm usually the exact opposite "how fast can I get myself back up in the air".

In reply to:
I would like to hear other views from fellow skydivers on how they felt the first couple of times they jumped and how did you overcome your fears.

You're still an infant in this sport. In time you will find your niche. But as some will claim, your butterflies will always be with you. Just make sure that your mind is rational and clear on each and every jump you do. Things can happen fast up there and we have little time to waste hesitating.

Good luck ...


(This post was edited by CanuckInUSA on Sep 11, 2003, 11:04 AM)


ScubaSteve  (Student)

Sep 11, 2003, 11:06 AM
Post #3 of 24 (1252 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello

I have only nine jumps in sor far. On almost evey jump I tell myself(voice in head) that it is the last. Strange thing is that once I get to the door, all the fear is replaced by thoughts of what I have to do (How to Exit). When back on the ground I cannot get on the next load fast enough. I am glad I am not the only student to have doubts on the plane ride up.


Fast  (D 28237)

Sep 11, 2003, 11:17 AM
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Re: [ScubaSteve] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

A few months ago you could find me asking very similar questions. I never rode the plane down, but I did get nervous everytime I went up. I still do some, but not like before, its just a thought in my head to make sure that I am checking all the things that I need to be loooking at before I step out the door.

As for the perfect exit, freefall, canopy rid, anything... Good luck at finding that, because I'm sure there are people that have been in this sport for a hell of a lot longer then people like us, and a lot of them are still looking too i would bet.

'Never stop learning.' --Lots of people


jumpinjackflash  (B 27757)

Sep 11, 2003, 11:52 AM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Man I'm glad I found dropzone.com. Hell Yes, butterflies? Man... I'm making AFF 3 tomorrow, I made two a couple day's ago and I have alot of anxiety.

From what I can tell it is limited to "performance anxiety" due to the fact that I also want a great exit and subsequent freefall. Also, there is getting past the whole "WHat the Hell am I doing" syndrome. Getting out of the plane is a pretty alien thing to do you know.

I've had some pretty interesting conversations with myself on that one. As were getting higher and higher and the guys are at the door spotting, I'm thinking, "Be Careful, You could Fall Out"!!!

Yeah, thats some crazy shit. After all, were all gonna fall out in just a few minutes.

FUN STUFF MAN. Cannot, figure out, for the life of me, anything else in the universe that could be more fun. It's worse than being addicted to drugs. When I'm jumping I'm thinking "WOW I'M JUMPING!" and when I'm not, I'm thinking "Damn, I WISH I WAS JUMPING" LOL

I hear you though, it will get better I assume, I'm working real hard on anxiety issues too. I'm sure we'll get better with it.

Blue Skies,

jjf

it's a gas, gas, gas....


DeNReN  (B 5642)

Sep 11, 2003, 12:07 PM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

1st thing.......If it dosent feel right,dont do it! Jumping when your anxiety is to high can lead to unstable deployments etc. As someone still learning to be consistant in a stable FF, My instructors keep telling me to relax, and being relaxed is a huge part of being stable.....I found this out the hard way 2 jumps ago when i got nervous at deployment alt,dearched and flipped through my lines during deploymentCrazy....next jump (being anxious about FF) i decided to do a hop and pop from 5k....The jump went well and a instructor watching was able to have a good look at my pull..(im pulling to fast and not countering with my other hand..starting to induce a forward flip) that along with a little panic caused it.......I was quite nervous that jump and it showed up at the worst time.....Again if it dosent feel right....dont do it! 2nd....I have seen a few responces to other posts by very experianced skydivers saying that the day your not nervous in some way shape or form is the day to get out of the sport...as u will become a danger to yourself and other skydivers.Afterall...dont we all jump for the rush? No fear/anxiety = No rushTongue 3rd....I've rambled on long enough.... Never jump if your not ready. Blue SkiesSmile


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Sep 11, 2003, 12:17 PM
Post #7 of 24 (1226 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome to the forums! Smile Don't worry about your nerves, a lot of us suffered from them in the beginning, me included. It went away for me at about 25 jumps.

Deland is my home dz too so if you see me, be sure to say hi! Smile


Chrisky

Sep 11, 2003, 12:27 PM
Post #8 of 24 (1223 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Butterflies (Ther Hordes of them, that isWink) will go away, some are leaving with every jump.

Once you do a couple of jumps a day, some are still around to keep you awake, but not to bother you. So, yes, they will go away.

I NEVER said 'Once I get out of this plane and on the ground, I'll never do this again" because WHAT the hell should make me get out if i don't want to do it?
Skydiving is for YOU and YOU alone. If you start jumping solo, its only you and why you do it in the air. No one else, not your cool buddies, not your instructors, just you.
Try to detach from the pressure building up inside of you and relax. Why does that exit have to be so perfect? It doesn't. Fall off the plane then ARCH and boom you're stable.Smile I know, sounds simple. It is Wink

Just don't think like: I MUST reach this goal on THIS dive. Every jump is fun, even if you have to repeat that level. Reflect what might give you pressure and eliminate the cause, if possible. (No, don't eliminate anyONE!!!)Smile

Then relaxing will be a lot easier and you'll see how easy it gets.Smile

My two cents, hth!

BLUE SKIES!


Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Sep 11, 2003, 5:03 PM
Post #9 of 24 (1194 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Once again I just couldn't get out of the plane and rode back down. I was so worried about making a perfect exit that I couldn't make the jump..

Don't worry about the "perfect exit". You know how to get stable, right? Of course you do. That was all part of your AFF. So what happens if you go unstable on exit? Well, you know how to get yourself stable...so that's what you do. Your exits will only get better if you practice them. Don't let it psych you out.

Quote:
1) Do the "butterflies" ever go away?

For most people, yes. Some people have them, ever so slightly, forever. It's just your mind trying to tell you that this is not something to take lightly. Understand what you are doing, and the potential consequences. Also understand that proper training and reactions will keep you safe.

The only time I rode the plane down was not by choice. The winds picked up after takeoff, I think it was jump #3 or 4. They were 20 gusting to 25. I would have opted to ride the plane back down at that point, but I didn't have to....the instructor made the call and didn't even tell us why until we were back on the ground.

Mike


iamspoild  (Student)

Sep 11, 2003, 6:00 PM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gawd this is good to see! E V E R Y T I M E I get in the plane my palms sweat like a mo-fo and wonder if I can really do it. I try to make sense of what I'm about to do and rationalize it.... Shocked

I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ME!!!

It all seems to make sense when you're back on the ground though doesn't it... Wink


Dagny  (B 28462)

Sep 11, 2003, 8:34 PM
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Re: [iamspoild] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ooooo, count me in as one of the sweaty palms people! I've been excited about every jump, but as soon as the plane starts rolling, I get nervous.

So then everyone is chatting and enjoying the ride up and I've got my eyes closed visualizing my jump over...and over....and over again. Ad nauseum. It's all good, though, when I'm in the air...

Someone told me the butterflies start to die down around jump 100 or so...Since I'm at jump 3....well, I guess it's time to make friends with 'em!


The111  (D 29246)

Sep 11, 2003, 9:10 PM
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Re: [Dagny] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine died at about 15. But maybe I was a bit cocky. They came back at jump 51 after my first [really] stupid mistakes and first reserve ride.


lucia  (C 2318298)

Sep 12, 2003, 3:08 AM
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Re: [The111] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Butterflies are still around somewhere but only a couple them are left now, they make more noise when If been a couple weeks with out hopping from a plane but we are good friends now. Anyway once I had an emergency and had to cutaway and suddenly all the butterflies came back , but now they are tamed again.


mctyeire  (A 43510)

Sep 12, 2003, 5:58 AM
Post #14 of 24 (1124 views)
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Butterflies? After 35 jumps, I still feel them. When they get intense, I start checking handles and visualizing emergency procedures. That usually calms them down a bit. I don't really want them to go away. They will probably save my life someday!

I am obsessed with exits lately. At 20 jumps I could hardly get out without doing a flip or two. Now I have a sense of FLYING on "the hill" - no flips, some sense of the inertial and aerodynamic forces, but still not very steady or with a sense of being entirely in control. I think I will be working on this for a long time. When I get butterflies from performance anxiety, I work on visualizing the exit, which seems to get better and more realistic with experience. Like the others said, just get out and get stable, and have fun!

Now, I have to search the forums for advice on my exits...

Cool


funks  (B License)

Sep 12, 2003, 9:17 AM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

otherwise known as "plane panic". I am a firm believer that once you no longer have butterflys then you have become complacent and an accident is waiting to happen....as far as thinking on the plane that it will be your last jump, hell yes...250 jumps later and I still think that every now and then!!


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Sep 12, 2003, 9:37 AM
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Re: [funks] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am a firm believer that once you no longer have butterflys then you have become complacent and an accident is waiting to happen....

I don't believe in this theory. I do know where you're coming from and totally agree that if you are complacent, an accident is waiting to happen. But what do butterflies have to do with it. We're all different and the tolerance for risk in one person will be different for another. This is what allows a bad ass swooper to be bad ass (besides having the skill and experience to do what they do). In otherwords, they have built up a certain comfort level which allows them to dive at the ground at extremely high speeds which would likely freakout the rest of us.


ScubaSteve  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 9:39 AM
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Re: [funks] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

When I have had the thought that "this is my last jump", I am not thinking that something bad is gong to happen. I just am doubting my motivation for learning to skydive. It last from the pin check in the plane until I get in the door. I like the feeling, it remins me the importance on gear/handle checks.


iamspoild  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 11:05 AM
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Re: [ScubaSteve] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear ya. I've only done 3. But I've said to myself "okay, this is good, I'm outta here" as well. After a few hours, they play through my head (a million times)..and I think... maybe if I just keep going over it, over and over, next time I'm in the plane, I'll know exactly "why" I'm there - and that will be enough. Well, no avail..(yet).... This could turn into a huge discussion about why people skydive.

Cause it's fun? Well, it is. But for SOME of us newbies, "fun" doesn't quite cut it when it comes to reasoning and that door is about to fling open. There's more to why we're there..... much more..... am I right? At the moment, I'm doing it because of what its done for me on the ground - oppose to what I get out of it in the air (not to say I
don't love the freefall! that's my favorite part!)

Weather and operating hours will soon put a huge damper on my personal progression. I'm thinking of taking a break until Feb or March - then head someplace warm like Arizona or Florida and do nothing but skydive for a week or two. Dagny is in Florida - she's a cutie pie (is that allowed here?) That's sounding like a nice option Wink


cindee  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 12:47 PM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2) And did any of you ever say 'Once I get out of this plane and on the ground, I'll never do this again"?

On my AFP 2 I had massive line twists. When I looked up and saw them I said to myself "oh shit", and then I remembered that they were only a nuisance and I just had to kick out of them. Once I got that straightend out, I did a steerability check and then looked for the dropzone. I couldn't find it anywhwere and proceeded to find someplace else to land. During this time, I kept telling myself that I would never do this again. At around 3000 feet, my instructor came in over the radio and told me to turn left and head for the DZ. (Thank God for that radio).

I went back up later that afternoon for AFP 3.


tomate

Sep 12, 2003, 2:52 PM
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Re: [skydivedevil] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

As a student I have not overcome my fears yet, and remain anxious and even afraid.

Recently I questionned myself why I had to go through the ordeal of nervousness and fears just for an instant of fun.

What kept me going, however, was a message in this forum saying that some only dream of doing things, while others actually do things.

It may sound gory, but I'd rather die flying than live dreaming about skydiving.

Butterflies: I have them not only when jumping, but all week long -even reading these posts !!!


iamspoild  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 5:56 PM
Post #21 of 24 (1032 views)
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Re: [tomate] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It may sound gory, but I'd rather die flying than live dreaming about skydiving.

Man....Pirate thats heavy. If it came down to it, would you rather go without the chute than hang it up?

I like look at it more as simply accepting the risk. To quote Adrian Nicholas "the biggest risk in life - is not taking any risks at all, and letting the opportunity pass you by..."


(This post was edited by iamspoild on Sep 12, 2003, 6:00 PM)


Dagny  (B 28462)

Sep 12, 2003, 7:02 PM
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Re: [iamspoild] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
. To quote Adrian Nicholas "the biggest risk in life - is not taking any risks at all, and letting the opportunity pass you by..."

Such an awesome statement! I tried to explain to my parents why I want to skydive (by the way, that's the last time we've spoken about it - they won't even let me say the word in their presence) and didn't feel very successful. They kept saying that I could die and that I shouldn't take big risks like that and asking why I would do something so risky. Saying, "well, it's fun" just didn't argue well.

After some thought I realized that we, as individuals, don't really choose the things that define us. These things choose us. To deny ourselves out of fear (which can be conquered) would be to deny who we are. Anyway, that's how I tried to explain it to my parents. They still hate that I'm skydiving, but they would never try to stop me.
That's respect.

As far as feeling that you'd "rather die flying than live dreaming about skydiving", I get what you're saying. Once when I was scuba diving, it was so amazing and beautiful that I thought if I died right at that moment, it would be okay because I was really happy. Of course, doesn't mean anyone around here WANTS to die today or even tomorrow.

The thing that sets those people apart who are doing what they dream from those who only think about what they could do and never act is something inside. Strength, maybe? As in...the strength to jump out of an airplane at 13,500 even when the butterflies are staging a coup.

Oh, and iamspoild, you should come visit Florida when you're all frozen over! Beautiful weather, beaches, people, and dropzones....even better when there isn't a Cat.5 hurricane bearing down on it! Wink


iamspoild  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 8:05 PM
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Re: [Dagny] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

uh.. I'm there!

so I pulled a little brain fart on that quote. It's close, but not quite a cigar.

s/b "There's a risk in life. The biggest risk in life is that you'll waste the opportunity to live it".

Let mom and dad chew on that one! ;)


(This post was edited by iamspoild on Sep 12, 2003, 9:42 PM)


skydivedevil  (Student)

Sep 12, 2003, 10:20 PM
Post #24 of 24 (1000 views)
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Re: [Dagny] Riding the plane down...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So then everyone is chatting and enjoying the ride up and I've got my eyes closed visualizing my jump over...and over....and over again. Ad nauseum. It's all good, though, when I'm in the air...
_______________________________________________
Talk about taking the words right out of my mouth. That is exactly how I feel each time I go up. My last couple of jumps I have been on loads with some of the best skydivers at Deland (Hunter, Jimmy, Pax) Somewhat intimidating, however, they all have been TREMENDOUS in helping me out in my skydiving adventure. Everytime, I watch them get in and out of the plane, like it's nothing. And here I am sitting next to them thinking "What the heck am I doing ?" Once I am out of the plane, life is GREAT.

A BIG thanks to all of you who replied, it is nice to know I am not the only one out there who has "butterflies". Thank you all for the encouragement. I'll be back in the air next week as long a hurricane doesn't ruin my plans.

Quote:
The Butterflies (Ther Hordes of them, that is) will go away, some are leaving with every jump.
_________________________________________________
Awesome quote!


(This post was edited by skydivedevil on Sep 13, 2003, 1:18 AM)



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