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Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft...

 

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freeflyanvil  (B 4374)

Aug 7, 2003, 11:12 PM
Post #26 of 63 (1247 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

>>Im sorry, but do you really feel safe to jump the ball with only 250 jumps <<

He never said he's jumping the ball alone - he's doing a test with VERY experienced ball masters - no problem with that whatsoever.

Wrongway, dont sweat about the # of jumps dude. I know a few people who got their a's with under 300 jumps. One of these people was nearly doing his B test last month with only 600 jumps!! That's fuckin' impressive.


keithwilfort  (B 28013)

Aug 8, 2003, 6:55 AM
Post #27 of 63 (1231 views)
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Re: [WrongWay] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Canadian Glen Canon AD #324 got his number when he had approx. 250 jumps....finished real early too from what I heard from Dave Brown.


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 8, 2003, 7:02 AM
Post #28 of 63 (1228 views)
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Re: [keithwilfort] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

So did Jon Zuliani. I did about 15 coaching jumps with him (all head down). He only had 250 jumps when he took the test, and now he has 600 jumps and is on the Gravity Pirates (The Canadian National Freefly Team). He said that the reason he was able to do it was because he did what I'm doing. He got lots and lots and LOTS of coaching, and everybody knows that one coaching jump can be worth 10-15 fun jumps when coached by a pro.


mags  (D 22485)

Aug 8, 2003, 7:16 AM
Post #29 of 63 (1223 views)
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Re: [WrongWay] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

Jeff Mullins got his AD license when he was 13 years old.

If you got the skills, you got em.....

jump #'s aint shite


freeflydrew  (D 23992)

Aug 8, 2003, 7:43 AM
Post #30 of 63 (1221 views)
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Re: [WrongWay] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...I may have a low number of jumps, but about half of them are all coached jumps (all freefly), and lots of tunnel time (a few hours, also all freefly), so while I hate to sound like one of those cocky "You haven't seen me fly" newbie asshole-types, and I'm not I swear, I feel confident that with all of my coaching and help I've had from the pros, I think my skills are up to par enough to pass the ADA. Now the ADB, there's no bloody way...

I had 360 jumps when I first jumped with the ball (thank you Sven) and have jumped with one a bunch of other times... If you feel ready and safe, then go for it. It, of course, doesn't hurt at all to wait another 1-2-3 hundred more jumps though!
The one big thing that I noticed when I first started with the ball is that I wasn't aware of my altitude.... only the ball... instant tunnel vision and tunnel thought. I was surprised to hear my ditter go off! Of course, the jumpmaster was there and "he's aware", but that's not what it's about right? I think that if I had 600 jumps instead of 360, I wouldn't have been so fixated? Maybe that 's one of the skills that you'll have by waiting until you're more experienced? Who cares if you can jump out and chase a ball? I personally think that being a safe, knowlegable, heads up, and experienced skydiver is much more impressive.
Some of the many things to think about when you jump with the ball are those basic safety standards you should be using in every skydive.
I bet that when you tell who ever it is you're going to jump with how many jumps you have, they'll definitely want to do a dry run with you without the ball. They may do something like jump out and just stick out their fist like the ball and see how you do flying with that... Depending on the result, they'll either say no or go.
Attachments: ball4.jpg (6.21 KB)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 8, 2003, 7:51 AM
Post #31 of 63 (1219 views)
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Re: [freeflydrew] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I told Jason that I would jump the ball with him, and sure as hell was planning on doing a "dry run" with him, just to see. I may not have him dock on my fist, but I think a fun two way will be enough.

As far as low jump numbers go, if the ball master is qualified, there's a pretty big window of who can jump with the ball. If they really suck that bad, they won't even be near the ball, at which point you grab the ball, stuff it down your jumpsuit, and chase the guy down.


freeflydrew  (D 23992)

Aug 8, 2003, 8:15 AM
Post #32 of 63 (1213 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As far as low jump numbers go, if the ball master is qualified, there's a pretty big window of who can jump with the ball. If they really suck that bad, they won't even be near the ball, at which point you grab the ball, stuff it down your jumpsuit, and chase the guy down.

totally...


keithwilfort  (B 28013)

Aug 8, 2003, 10:24 AM
Post #33 of 63 (1202 views)
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Re: [freeflydrew] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Jon Zuliani made an attempt at his B last month, I think he missed it by the final transition and grab.
600 jumps and a bunch of tunnel time.......


sssbc99  (C License)

Aug 8, 2003, 2:28 PM
Post #34 of 63 (1183 views)
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Re: [keithwilfort] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

in reply to
...I may have a low number of jumps, but about half of them are all coached jumps (all freefly), and lots of tunnel time (a few hours, also all freefly), so while I hate to sound like one of those cocky "You haven't seen me fly" newbie asshole-types, and I'm not I swear, I feel confident that with all of my coaching and help I've had from the pros, I think my skills are up to par enough to pass the ADA. Now the ADB, there's no bloody way...

Damn, are you a millionaire er what....i wish i was rich


(This post was edited by sssbc99 on Aug 8, 2003, 2:56 PM)


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 11, 2003, 5:58 AM
Post #35 of 63 (1149 views)
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Re: [sssbc99] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

No, actually I'm a poor college student just like everybody else, but luckily I'm on a scholarship and my full paycheck goes to skydiving every week, and even though more coaching jumps means less jumps, it still means more experience in my opinion. Or should I say, better quality experience than 500 fun jumps.


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 11, 2003, 6:09 AM
Post #36 of 63 (1148 views)
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Re: [keithwilfort] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, tell Jon I said too bad on his B test. He'll nab it next time. And tell Paul Rademacher that I said "she wasn't kidding about the reflex". He should laugh hysterically. Cool


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 11, 2003, 6:29 AM
Post #37 of 63 (1147 views)
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Re: [WrongWay] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, I just read over what I put on my last post, and I think it looked a little cocky so I just wanna clear that up before anyone got the wrong idea. I'm not saying that cuz I have some coach jumps I'm better than anybody with 500 jumps, I didn't mean it to sound like that at all (Thats what I thought it looked like I was saying when I read it). What I meant by it was that I feel I'm doing better with this number of jumps with coaching that I have now than I would have had I done no coaching, no tunnel time, and 500 fun jumps. I meant that against no one, and I'm not putting down anybody that has 500 for 100,000 fun jumps. I'm just saying that's what is working for me. I meant in no way to sound cocky or anything, so just wanted to clear that up, and I appologize to anyone that took that the wrong way. Tongue


apoil  (D License)

Aug 11, 2003, 10:48 AM
Post #38 of 63 (1125 views)
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Re: [keithwilfort] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
However I do not feel that a person that flies with the ball in an uncontrolled atmosphere and practices the test numerous times then passes on their 10th try is anywhere near passing the standards set forth by the orginal idea and skills set behind the test itself. Again a test is a test, do 400 jumps and do the test and see how you fare. Don't do 385 jumps and 15 jumps with the ball and then do the test, this takes away from the orginal idea and concept of the "test" in the first place.
These are just my thoughts from experience and I value anyone elses thoughts on this subject.
Just to clarify for everyone I am a First School of Modern Skyflying instructor who does this daily, thanks for listening, if you want to comment personally contact freeflydave@hotmail.com

Personally I disagree with Dave on this issue.

Because it's a test of skill, it's something you can and must practice for.

He's got a point of course, that there's a difference, between how prepared you are.. but there's a difference on any jump you attempt, how current you are and how experienced the moves. Alchemy doesn't win competitions without practicing their routines. If you want to be able to do something you work on it. That's how we get better.

Besides this, I personally know people that saw Dave Brown practicing for his B test. And SteveO practiced for his D even though he wasn't supposed to.

So Dave wants it to be like sight reading a piece of music you've never seen before. But everyone knows what the test is, so people will practice transitions and docks without a ball if they don't have access to a ballmaster or dropzone that allows it.

And if you want to keep coming up with tests that folks have no experience of, then the test have to keep changing and there's no standard.


mags  (D 22485)

Aug 11, 2003, 2:41 PM
Post #39 of 63 (1096 views)
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Re: [apoil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I think it says alot more about your flying skills if you can show up and flash the test first try...

Whether or not well known flyers have prepared for their tests or not does not mean that is the way it was intended to be taken.

I know Olav is not a particularly popular character, but he DID design the test and he does have standards.. It comes down to does the person REALLY want to challenge their own skills or do they just want to get the AD as easily as possible?



He does not want people to prepare for it.. Now if his own instructors choose to prepare for the more advanced tests, do you think he likes that?

He doesn't...

I say challenge yourself and your skills by attempting the test cold...

If you are a solid flyer, docking a relatively stable object and doing two transitions in time is not hard.

What IS hard is doing something somewhat new under pressure in an observed environment...

everyone knows practice makes perfect.......but this is not the S.A.T.'s


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:05 PM
Post #40 of 63 (1090 views)
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Re: [mags] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
If Olav was really interested in people passing the test without practice, he would set it up so those without practice could take the test the first time, and if they failed, only pay for the two slots. Subsequent jumps could be charged the full rate, as the jumper would know what the test was like, and could hold off on a retest untill their skills were up to par.

If you were to pay me $130 per jump for a test with a pass/fail criteria, of course I would tell you not to practice, reducing your chances of passing, and increasing my chances of additional $130 paydays. The whole thing seems to be geared toward producing revenue for Olav, not promoting freeflying at a higher level, and raising it's standing in the general skydiving community.


mags  (D 22485)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:14 PM
Post #41 of 63 (1088 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew bringing up Olav would roust someone.....

My post was not about Olav or his motivations for making this test.

Of course he wants revenue....

Bottom line....do you want to challenge yourself and have the satisfaction of "flashing" a skill test or is a person so afraid of losing thier money or lacks the confidence in their own skills that they go out and replicate the test a dozen times before taking it...

I am not saying this is how things should be, everyone's motivations and perceptions are different.....

no right or wrong....

I personally feel more satisfied after taking a hard test that I did well on , than one i had a cheat sheet for....

just me

be your own person ! Tongue

put a fork in this one...its done


freeflyanvil  (B 4374)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:48 PM
Post #42 of 63 (1080 views)
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Re: [mags] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

>>I personally feel more satisfied after taking a hard test that I did well on , than one i had a cheat sheet for.... <<

I'm not so sure that this is a good analogy. As someone already stated, the AD test is a test of skill, not knowledge - your cheat sheet is for knowledge, not skill.


mags  (D 22485)

Aug 11, 2003, 3:52 PM
Post #43 of 63 (1076 views)
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Re: [freeflyanvil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

i think you know what i meant..




late


(This post was edited by skymama on Aug 11, 2003, 5:50 PM)


apoil  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 7:30 PM
Post #44 of 63 (1033 views)
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Re: [mags] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Bottom line....do you want to challenge yourself and have the satisfaction of "flashing" a skill test or is a person so afraid of losing thier money or lacks the confidence in their own skills that they go out and replicate the test a dozen times before taking it...

As much as I have to say about Olav, I don't completely think he designed the test to be about money, although from what I've heard from some of the early tests he conducted (for his own teammates) I could easily be convinced otherwise.

And yes, while it's nice to encourage people to take the test cold, it's completely unenforcable. A skill test is something that you should prepare for.

I think that the "A" is basic enough, that adanced fliers can do it on the spot. And that's how many of the A's were conducted, as a qualifier for the space games.

But the B,C and D? I assert that ain't no one going to pass those without some level of practice, whether they use a ball or not.

Tell me you would be banging out the six transitions in order, just a few times before going in for your B?

It seems like , it it were up to Olav, no one would be able to jump skyballs, because flying with them would be his registered trademark, and they could only be used for conducting his tests.

More: how can you ever be "unprepared" for a skill test when improving your skydiving skills is what you do on every jump?
Are you not allowed to practice transitions? Are you not allowed to jump with a ball to see what it's like? See what I mean, it's impossible to actually be "cold" when taking the test.

And don't get me wrong, being able to do the transitions, or fly with a ball when it's just practice is very very different from having to perform while being TESTED, and with your cash on the line. So the test has that challenge BUILT into it. But it's impossible to not prepare, because you are preparing on every skydive.


Levin  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:05 PM
Post #45 of 63 (1029 views)
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Re: [freeflyanvil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not so sure that this is a good analogy. As someone already stated, the AD test is a test of skill, not knowledge - your cheat sheet is for knowledge, not skill.

I think it's an excellent analogy. The knowledge is already knowing what it is like to jump with a ball. Thus you have an advantage (or cheat sheet).

Levin
vSCS#3
http://www.freeflyers.com


Levin  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:13 PM
Post #46 of 63 (1026 views)
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Re: [apoil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Personally I disagree with Dave on this issue.

Because it's a test of skill, it's something you can and must practice for.

I think you are missing the point. The initial "test" does more than simply test your skills. It also test your level of awareness. That's why it is recommended that you do not jump with a ball before hand. That is a recommendation for the 'A' test only. To qualify for a B, C or D you must first pass the A. That means to get one of the upper level licenses you must have already taken the 'A' test and thus already jumped with a ball. Therefore it doesn't matter how much you use the ball to prepare for B, C & D. Afterall, it's intended use is as a training aid.

Levin
vSCS#3
http://www.freeflyers.com

edit: typos


(This post was edited by Levin on Aug 12, 2003, 8:16 PM)


blazingcannon  (C 3072)

Aug 12, 2003, 8:16 PM
Post #47 of 63 (1026 views)
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Re: [keithwilfort] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Canadian Glen Canon AD #324 got his number when he had approx. 250 jumps....finished real early too from what I heard from Dave Brown.

Actually, just to clarify, I got it on jump 310. John Z got it around jump 250. Not that it really matters.

Anyway, speaking of tests, I recently did a mock B test with Dave Brown and didn't do too badly. That test really underlines the need for balanced overall training on your left and right sides.

He said that to train for the B test, you should basically be able to do 12 transitions with grips in between. *whew!... busy dive!*

Cheers!
G.
p.s. Hi freeflyanvil. thx fer the fun jumps up there in good ol' GBSPC!


mags  (D 22485)

Aug 13, 2003, 7:28 AM
Post #48 of 63 (1007 views)
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Re: [apoil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

Blah blah blah Olav blah blah blah AD blah blah blah practice blah blah blah analogy blah blah blah you're wrong blah blah blah your right blah blah blah

WHO CARES!

put your microscopes away and GO SKYDIVE!


(This post was edited by mags on Aug 13, 2003, 7:32 AM)


freeflyanvil  (B 4374)

Aug 13, 2003, 4:38 PM
Post #49 of 63 (984 views)
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Re: [blazingcannon] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

>>p.s. Hi freeflyanvil. thx fer the fun jumps up there in good ol' GBSPC<<

pleasure was all mine GlenCool Hope to see you out some more - and we're gonna try to make it up to burnaby some time in the next bit... I'll be able to take some nice pics since I get the 10D in about a weekSmileSmileSmile


blazingcannon  (C 3072)

Aug 13, 2003, 10:38 PM
Post #50 of 63 (967 views)
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Re: [freeflyanvil] Chasing the ball from sidedoor aircraft... [In reply to] Can't Post

siiickkkk!
Cya soon Dave!

Glen


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