Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
How easy is 'head down'?

 

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Skylark

Aug 12, 2003, 6:15 PM
Post #1 of 60 (7406 views)
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     How easy is 'head down'?  

I learnt how to fly head-down totally stable in only 3 jumps. Is this about average? I only have 85 jumps in total and I tried sit flying a few times but couldn't hold it. Then I tried head down and, voila! It was so easy! I was even able to spin and rotate at will.


Levin  (D License)

Aug 12, 2003, 6:27 PM
Post #2 of 60 (7382 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

I learned out of c182's. Took me about 8 to 10 jumps to be able to hold sit for entire jump. About another 30 to become stable. Took me about 300 HD jumps (w/out coaching) just to get correct body position.

Levin
vSCS#3


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Aug 12, 2003, 7:01 PM
Post #3 of 60 (7362 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Please define "totally stable".

Getting head down in three jumps IS GREAT!!! Knowing your own body position in freefall and learning cause and effect of flying different body parts takes more time.

What you think is head-down could be a few degrees off. Get some coaching or get yourself on video and take a look.


BuddhaBoy  (D 6488)

Aug 13, 2003, 1:28 AM
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Great Work! Cool
For me it was the other way round. Headup worked great quickly but headdown worked sometimes and sometimes not. (Think I were trying to hard).

Keep up the good work, do a lot of one-to-one jumps to keep a good level and don't forget to also learn headup b/c it's a good way to catch level if you're a bit low.


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Aug 13, 2003, 4:54 AM
Post #5 of 60 (7297 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Just make sure you're really head down and not flying somewhat on your back. That is the mistake that many newbies make while trying hd for the first time, including me. The best way to judge is to jump with a coach, or a very good freeflier who can video you and who can also be your guide as to whether you are backsliding or not. I'm not saying this is the case for you, I'm just saying it happens to most of us at first.


lazyfrog

Aug 13, 2003, 4:56 AM
Post #6 of 60 (7294 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

I can sit and stand, but can't manage to stay head down and stable...


sunnydee123  (D 27113)

Aug 13, 2003, 5:18 AM
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

If you found a true head down in just 3 jumps....good for you - I'm jealous! I just started my attempts at headdown this weekend, making each with a very good flyer and just forsee it taking me a bit longer then grasping "sit".

Be careful, I was all excited thinking I did a solo and was on my head but then did the same exit with my boyfriend who shot video and I was on my back (with my little neck stretched as far back as it could go making me THINK I was on my head...it was kinda funny after the fact).

I would definitely make a jump with someone who could shoot video for you so you can SEE what you are doing in the air. Please be careful - lots of things to consider when we are in the air and trying something new. It all comes with jumps so keep on jumping my friend.


WrongWay  (D 27371)

Aug 19, 2003, 5:43 PM
Post #8 of 60 (7077 views)
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     Re: [sunnydee123] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

A lot of newbies make a huge mistake in "thinking" they're head down. I've seen a lot of people not quite flying head down, as opposed to a really steep track. In head down, you're not flying on your head, per se, you're actually hanging by your legs, with your upper body totally relaxed, and doing all your steering with your newly formed "rudders" (legs). In a track, you're still pushing the wind with your shoulders, arms, head, etc., but in head down, it's all just hanging by your legs. I really think that's the best way I can explain it. Sly

http://www.skydivewrongway.com


speedformula  (D License)

Aug 20, 2003, 8:47 AM
Post #9 of 60 (7026 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

dude , another 2 jumps and you'll be competing in the space games !
:)

jk


Kramer  (B 27138)

Aug 20, 2003, 9:38 PM
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

I went head down the other day! Of course it was as I was spinning out of control searching for my ripcord, but I kid you not, I watched the video, and I was headdown for a good half second. Wink

It's an easy discipline.

-Kramer


sssbc99  (C License)

Aug 21, 2003, 10:35 AM
Post #11 of 60 (6922 views)
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     Re: [Kramer] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

 In Reply To
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Its an easy discipline.
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You might want to think twice about that statement. Don't worry, if you start freeflying, you will see.


SkydiveNFlorida  (C License)

Aug 21, 2003, 6:38 PM
Post #12 of 60 (6879 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

I played around with head down on Monday. I definitely can't say I was stable, tho, cuz I couldn't hold it for long. I'd be in what I think is the position, then i'd start thinking, how f-ing cool, and all of a sudden, I would become unstable and start to come out of it. I can say that no matter how poorly I did, I had a blast!! Can't wait to get some training in it! Smile

Angela.


freeflyguy  (D 24207)

Aug 21, 2003, 9:17 PM
Post #13 of 60 (6874 views)
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     Re: [Skylark] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

troll.

No, dude, it aint that simple.


Unutsch

Aug 22, 2003, 12:25 AM
Post #14 of 60 (6860 views)
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     Re: [freeflyguy] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
troll.

No, dude, it aint that simple.

amen to that!!!


Levin  (D License)

Aug 25, 2003, 6:43 PM
Post #15 of 60 (6756 views)
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     Re: [Unutsch] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline.

Levin
vSCR#17
http://www.freeflyers.com

edit: my statement above is in reference to headdown flying only. not freeflying in general.


(This post was edited by Levin on Aug 25, 2003, 6:45 PM)


apoil  (D License)

Aug 26, 2003, 6:25 AM
Post #16 of 60 (6699 views)
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     Re: [Levin] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline.

"once mastered"

You are either speaking entirely for yourself, or misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery. Anything seems easy once you've mastered it, but you have to respect the discipline and training it took to get there.

And everyone is different. Some have natural ability with flying, others, like myself have had to work hard at it.

Head down flying is challenging enough that flying a base for a larger formation way formation is never easy, or boring, the way it might be in belly flying.

I had heard that once you get it, it's simple to master, but it still took me hundreds and hundreds of jumps to be where I want to be in the sky on my head and I see tons of people with different plateaus in their learning curve at all different stages of learning head down.


sssbc99  (C License)

Aug 26, 2003, 9:41 AM
Post #17 of 60 (6671 views)
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     Re: [Levin] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

 
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In Reply To
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so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline.

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So, what are you trying to say here? You have mastered it? Thats a bold statement. Smile


(This post was edited by sssbc99 on Aug 26, 2003, 9:42 AM)


Levin  (D License)

Aug 26, 2003, 1:02 PM
Post #18 of 60 (6646 views)
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     Re: [sssbc99] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Quote:
So, what are you trying to say here? You have mastered it? Thats a bold statement.

Maybe it is a bold statement. For me being able to make that statement had it's price. I spent a little over 1000 jumps in a row on my head for the entire duration of every skydive. No sitting, no transitions, no nothing but headdown from exit to break off. For a tad over 1000 jumps. That's alot of time spent working on just one thing. So to me, saying that I have mastered headdown does not seem like a bold statement considering what I did to achieve that skill. On the other hand, unfortunately, I can't sit fly or belly fly worth a damn. And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions. Actually I just started working on sitflying this year which has taken away some of the precision I had on my head since I'm not spending as much time there. My headdown skills has also made my sit learning curve kinda interesting. I've gotten linked transitions down fairly well, yet I still don't have enough control with my horizontal movements to take a dock. I was an okay belly flyer about 5yrs ago before I started freeflying. I think I'm going to go to the wind tunnel this winter to pick those skills back up. So as of right now, as a headdown flyer I think I'm pretty damn good (bold statement or not), but as an all around freeflyer...i suck (but just wait next year).

Levin
vSCR#17
http://www.freeflyers.com
Attachments: vSCR5.jpg (42.2 KB)


Levin  (D License)

Aug 26, 2003, 1:52 PM
Post #19 of 60 (6642 views)
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     Re: [apoil] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
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In Reply To
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actually, once you get it down, it's the easiest thing in the world to do in the air. seriously, once you got it, you got it. and it just gets easier and easier and easier and easier and easier. and before long you will be flying with your mind instead of your body. everything becomes so 2nd nature that you no longer have to think about your body other than being aware of what it is doing on a much less conscious level. you will thnk I want to go there and your body will follow your mind. once mastered headdown is the easiest body position to fly in skydiving. it just starts out hard when you are beggining. so i also agree, once mastered, it is a very easy discipline.

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Quote:
"once mastered"

You are either speaking entirely for yourself, or misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery. Anything seems easy once you've mastered it,

Mr. Apoil, the headdown position is the most aerodynamic body position therefore it is the most maneuverable. Which means once you figure out how to do it, it is the easiest body position to get from point A to point B. That's the common sense physics behind it. That is unless your built like a bowling ball. I don't believe I "misrepresenting the difficulty of achieving mastery". Twice I've alreading posted to this thread jump numbers, when I started and how long it took to learn it.

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but you have to respect the discipline and training it took to get there.

yep, your jumping out of a plane 100's of times. Don't think there's anyone in the sport that doesn't respect that.

Quote:
And everyone is different.

Damndest thing. Billions of people on this planet and with the exception of twins, no two people are alike.

Quote:
Some have natural ability with flying, others, like myself have had to work hard at it.

Yep, you are right again. Everybody has their hidden talents. For me freefall surely isn't one of them. However I do feel I am a little talented at swooping my canopy, but I wouldn't call myself a natural at that either.

Quote:
Head down flying is challenging enough that flying a base for a larger formation way formation is never easy, or boring, the way it might be in belly flying.

Right Again!!! Headdown bigway is quit the opposite of a belly bigway. Typically we always put our best flyers in the base and inner ring.

Quote:
I had heard that once you get it, it's simple to master,

OMG, the secret is out. Tell me Mr. Apoil, had you already heard that or did you first hear it from me?


Quote:
but it still took me hundreds and hundreds of jumps to be where I want to be in the sky on my head

me too. but I think i've already said that.

Quote:
and I see tons of people with different plateaus in their learning curve at all different stages of learning head down.

yep, like you said above "everyone is different".


Now, tell me this Mr. Apoil. What is the real motivation for you replying to my post? You come at me as if you want to debate something, yet you do nothing but reinforce what I say. Quite often you quote me for saying something and then try to debate the same point. I believe your intentions are nothing more than to butt heads with me every time you see me post. If that is the case then may I warn you that you will loose everytime. Simply because I think about and research what I am going to say before I chime in and run my mouth.

Levin
vSCR#17
http://www.freeflyers.com


sssbc99  (C License)

Aug 26, 2003, 3:16 PM
Post #20 of 60 (6626 views)
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     Re: [Levin] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In Reply to: "And my cartwheels look more like corkwheels. That's why you never see me posting to threads about sitting or transitions."

Wouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious.


(This post was edited by sssbc99 on Aug 26, 2003, 3:18 PM)


Levin  (D License)

Aug 26, 2003, 4:02 PM
Post #21 of 60 (6616 views)
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     Re: [sssbc99] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Wouldn't you say that part of the "mastery" you speak of is being adept at transitions (from a HD position)? I'm not trying to rattle your cage because I dont know shit so dont get too offended. Im just curious.

no offense. the only axis I would consider being apart of that mastery I speak of would be spins, since I leave a headdown orientation when I do flips or corkwheels. By mastery I mean I have the same control headdown in freefall as I do standing or walking around on the ground. I obtained that level of precision last fall. I've lost a little of that precision since I started working on my sit. And also because I haven't been jumping as much this year. The key to getting there is jump numbers. Last year I made 65 jumps in July and 73 in August. Close to that last September. In those 3 months I made alot of progression. Making the most jumps you can in a short period of time makes you more comfortable and greatly increases your awareness which makes any discipline of skydiving much easier.

Levin
vSCS#3
http://www.freeflyers.com


Trent

Aug 27, 2003, 2:11 PM
Post #22 of 60 (6539 views)
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     Re: [Levin] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Since you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder.

I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving.


78RATS  (D 25449)

Aug 27, 2003, 2:43 PM
Post #23 of 60 (6527 views)
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     Re: [Trent] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving.

I'm pretty good at corking.


hookitt  (D License)

Aug 27, 2003, 2:49 PM
Post #24 of 60 (6526 views)
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     Re: [78RATS] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

Quote:
I'm pretty good at corking.

Oh man.. me too! I've been working on that one for years.
-


Levin  (D License)

Aug 27, 2003, 3:09 PM
Post #25 of 60 (6520 views)
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     Re: [Trent] How easy is 'head down'? [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Since you posted that VSCR picture to demonstrate your mastery, does that make me a master sitter since I was docked in a sit? Come on dude, none of us have mastered ANY aspect of skydiving. I like that I have weak points, it gives me reason to work harder.

I know that this dude's pissed you off, but don't make yourself look snobbish or something because of it. I know you, that's not you. I don't know anyone who'd say they mastered some aspect of skydiving.

okay you are right. mastery is a very poor choice of words. since this is a sport that we will always be learning and improving, mastery is possibly impossible. I was just trying to make the point to the people that commented headdown is difficult, that it is actually very easy to fly once you get the hang of it. Wasn't trying to sound snobby. Regarding Mr. Apoil, dude never pissed me off. Just confuses the piss out of me cause I can't figure out where he's coming from or what he's getting at.

Levin
vSCR#17
http://www.freeflyers.com


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