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1:25 from Troll

 

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ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 17, 2003, 3:23 PM
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1:25 from Troll Can't Post

http://www.bird-man.com/...le&a=id&v=73


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jul 17, 2003, 10:01 PM
Post #2 of 28 (14769 views)
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

NOICE!! That is just insanely cool


shunkka  (C 35678)

Jul 18, 2003, 3:46 AM
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

amaaaaaaaaaazing


robibird  (D 404)

Jul 18, 2003, 4:14 AM
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Re: [shunkka] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulation Peter !
Robi


leroydb  (D 25743)

Jul 18, 2003, 5:32 AM
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

that dude rocks... best I got on my classic was 1:12.. and that was from 12,500 and pulling at 4,500 and traveling back 3 miles to the dz...

can't wait to see how far i can go with my s3... maybe 5 miles?

congrats on that man....

edit to add: got 1:28 with out trying on my second jump on my s3..
.


(This post was edited by leroydb on Jul 18, 2003, 5:33 AM)


kevin922  (D 26500)

Jul 18, 2003, 5:33 AM
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Re: [leroydb] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
that dude rocks... best I got on my classic was 1:12.. and that was from 12,500 and pulling at 4,500 and traveling back 3 miles to the dz...

can't wait to see how far i can go with my s3... maybe 5 miles?

congrats on that man....

I"ve been 4 - 4.5 w/o much of a problem (other than sore arms)

Kevin


leroydb  (D 25743)

Jul 18, 2003, 5:45 AM
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Re: [kevin922] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

will you be at the eloy boogie this year? I Hope to do a HIgh altitude (22k) BM jump there this xmas..... it would be sweet to get out about 10 miles out ...

....


kevin922  (D 26500)

Jul 18, 2003, 5:47 AM
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Re: [leroydb] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
will you be at the eloy boogie this year? I Hope to do a HIgh altitude (22k) BM jump there this xmas..... it would be sweet to get out about 10 miles out ...

....

Yep i'll be there.. got my hotel booked 'n everything.. you better bulk up.. i did a 'higher' altitude jump from 15 or 16 and by the time i got down to 6 my arms were hurting.. by the time I got down to 4 they were really hurting.. and i was flying somewhat dirty :)


(This post was edited by kevin922 on Jul 18, 2003, 5:47 AM)


leroydb  (D 25743)

Jul 18, 2003, 5:54 AM
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Re: [kevin922] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yep i'll be there.. got my hotel booked 'n everything.. you better bulk up.. i did a 'higher' altitude jump from 15 or 16 and by the time i got down to 6 my arms were hurting.. by the time I got down to 4 they were really hurting.. and i was flying somewhat dirty :)

Actually I am bulking up... I am up almost 20 lbs... I will start cutting up in a few weeks... working on cardio and endurance... As you and I know, the suit is more about finess than strength. But when utilized corectly strength is a big factor. Even when I was out of shape I could fly my classic I for 1:12 from 11 or 12k, and not be tired or sore. Have had many all BM days where I don't fatique to muscle failure. Now on my S3, my first flight kicked my ass. But I think that was because I was trying to muscle the suit. Once I learn the finess of it I am sure I will have 3 min flights coming my way.....

Le Roy
the buck stops here
.


(This post was edited by leroydb on Jul 18, 2003, 5:55 AM)


outrager

Jul 18, 2003, 6:45 AM
Post #10 of 28 (14694 views)
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Yo !

That is a pretty cool flight! Also last year there have been 1:27 and 1:29 flights from another wall nearby, and 1:34 from Troll.

BUT, legally speaking, any so-called "Troll" flights have actually originated from Romsdalhorn across the valley ;-)

bsbd!

Yuri.


robibird  (D 404)

Jul 18, 2003, 12:16 PM
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Re: [outrager] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi W/S flyers,
I do not want to go in to the details, but try to concentrate more on distance you covering on your flights.

This way we gonna talk about the glide ratio instead of flight time. We want to be flying machines which travel from ''A'' to ''B'', not the balloons which stays in the sky for ever.

This way heavy guys will have the chance to compare theirs flights too.

Nobody really measuring for how long you stay under your canopy during your way back to DZ, more important is distance you covering - right!SmileSmileSmile

This are my two c.Wink

Best regards
RoBi


outrager

Jul 18, 2003, 2:09 PM
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Re: [robibird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do not want to go in to the details, but try to concentrate more on distance you covering on your flights.

Totally agreed. It's just so much easier to measure time, everybody does it, while distance is a bit trickier.

GPS waypoints at the exit and then at the opening spot work, but many/most really nice flights don't follow a straight line. Then you have to carry GPS on the flight, download the track etc... major pain in the rear. Also in narrow gorges GPS gets rather unreliable. Any ideas on how to get easy and precise (non-GPS) distance measurements in this circumstances?

bsbd!

Yuri.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 18, 2003, 2:53 PM
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Re: [robibird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

I completely agree. I think distance needs to be the next challenge for people, especially as they find themselves unable to further decrease their fall rate. I even got into a bit of an argument/debate about fall rate versus forward speed, and started a thread on it here. I know for sure that your best forward speed will not be your best fall rate. If anyone disagrees, go here. Personally, I've been on a fall rate kick, as I need a low fall rate and low forward speed to do canopy/wingsuit relative work.

I think most people compare fall rates, not forward speed/distance, because we all have ProTracks, not GPS units. We also usually jump out of a plane that always drops us off at different points. When we don't always start from the same point (like a big wall), and we don't have a GPS device, it makes it difficult for us to gauge our distance. I think all that will change in the years to come as people start seeing as much value in GPS units as ProTracks. As soon as I can afford one (just ordered a new canopy), I'll be picking one up (one that does altitude, as well). Fall rate is also just a whole other type of challenge that is easier to measure for most people than distance.

Edit to add: Woah, nutty... Yuri and I had almost the same post. Either I'm cool or he's not. Or both or neither. What?


(This post was edited by ManBird on Jul 18, 2003, 2:59 PM)


leroydb  (D 25743)

Jul 18, 2003, 11:43 PM
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

what the farthest distance anyone has traveled


kevin922  (D 26500)

Jul 20, 2003, 6:57 AM
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Re: [leroydb] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what the farthest distance anyone has traveled

i don't think you can just say that.. someone who does a high altitude jump is obviously going to a cover a lot more distance than someone doing a base jump.. if you want to really have a jaw drop then you should say "how far has someone traveled from 3,000 feet" or something.. i've done 4.5 - 5 miles from 12,500 before pulling at 4,000 with not too much problem.

I'm pretty sure i remember the guy on TLC who had a suit he was desiging went 10 miles from 22k? something like that.

Kevin


(This post was edited by kevin922 on Jul 20, 2003, 6:58 AM)


robibird  (D 404)

Jul 20, 2003, 2:52 PM
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Re: [kevin922] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi guys,
All what I said in previous post was related more to BASE type of jumps.

To measure the distance ( glide ratio, angle,Horizontal speed) from the plane is really difficult. To be accurate in that you need to have the GPS, data logger or something similar.
Than you need to know the wind directions. Also the way of flight path has to be determent .

In base is much easier to get the resoult of the covered distance in general. The whole different story would be to go for real 100% precise measuring.

I want to say that would be good to keep in mind the data about the time but also the places were the canopy was open after the good WS flights. This will give us better picture what is common and expected distance for some objects and which would be ultimate...

W respect to all
RoBi


outrager

Jul 21, 2003, 7:08 AM
Post #17 of 28 (14465 views)
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Re: [robibird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

   Yo !

Another point here... yes, minimum descent and maximum glide ratio speeds are different for the same airfoil. However, when we fly a wingsuit we alter our body position significantly to accelerate or slow down, essentially creating different airfoils. I belive that the body position that gives the slowest descent rate is also the same (or very similar) to the one that gives the best glide ratio. The difference between max glide/min descent speeds for this unchanged airfoil is relatively minor, compared to speed differences attributed to changing body positions.

bsbd!

Yuri.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jul 21, 2003, 12:01 PM
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Re: [outrager] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that I have a camera strapped to my head, I can finally get accurate freefall times. This weekend, I really considered what Robi was saying, and tried a few things out.

Looking at an aerial photo of the DZ, I found what was about a quarter mile in each direction, and attempted to do a "lap", which was about 4.2 miles. This also puts me in four orientations to the wind, so I had to fight on the north leg and really screamed on the south leg, as there were some strong uppers from the north. This way, my average indicated airspeed would be very close to my true airspeed.

I did five flights on Sunday. I started head high with very deep d-arch, and did each flight progressively flatter and steeper. Freefalls were 10,000ft (13.5k - 3.5k). Forward speeds are averaged indicated airspeeds. Distance is estimated, and is probably accurate within 1/4 mile. Time comes from what was recorded on video. The windspeeds varied throughout the day, but are nearly irrelevant as I flew in all orientations to the wind on ever flight. My attempted flight path was 0.3 miles west, 1.5 miles north (into the wind), 0.6 miles east, 1.5 miles south (downwind), then 0.3 miles west. The spots were all pretty close to being the same. I compensated the flight path accordingly to maintain the same distance on each flight.

Here are the approximate results:

3.4M / 154s | 79 MPH forward, 44 MPH down, 1.80:1
3.9M / 167s | 84 MPH forward, 41 MPH down, 2.05:1
4.1M / 159s | 93 MPH forward, 43 MPH down, 2.16:1
3.7M / 142s | 94 MPH forward, 48 MPH down, 1.96:1
3.2M / 125s | 92 MPH forward, 54 MPH down, 1.70:1

I'd like to slap on a GPS to get more accurate results. Even though these figures aren't 100% on, I can at least benchmark the flights against each other. I found that having the slightest d-arch, with a teeny tiny bit of a downward attack angle gave me the best glide ratio, and was, as Yuri, Dwain, and others have told me, just slightly off of what gave me the best fall rate. I got such a glide ratio from this position that I covered significantly more ground (SO close to completing the "lap") with 8 seconds less of freefall.

My best fall rate came from essentially the same body position, but without any angle to it. Flying "floaty" evidently didn't give me the forward speed needed to get a good fall rate. When I flew with a pretty aggressive attack angle, it gave me good forward speed, but increased my fall rate enough to decrease my glide. Flying flat with a very aggressive attack angle also gave me a really good forward speed, but also increased my fall rate so much that I actually covered less ground than flying "floatily".



(Edited for spelling)


(This post was edited by ManBird on Jul 21, 2003, 12:07 PM)


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jul 21, 2003, 1:35 PM
Post #19 of 28 (14413 views)
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Re: [ManBird] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

The GPS system is somewhat flawed as well, at least what I have been able to gather. I've flown a Garmin V attached to my chest strap and have had some annomolies in data. First issue is sattelite coverage in the A/C, there is none. I don't see that as a problem as I don't care how fast the plane was flying or it's track. However, this does become critical during exit as it takes a few seconds for it to reacquire sats and the data can be misleading once it starts back up. According to one jump I had a speed of 800mph for one leg. I have compared Protrack numbers to my GPS numbers and sometimes the mathis off too. having talked to our pilot who uses the garmin III pilot, he too has issues with it's reception if it isn't right on the window the whole time. I have considered using the external antenna and moving towards the door prior to exit to ensure sat coverage before exit but I still have to work a few details out. The one nice thing about the GPS is that you can overlay it on the map with the software and actually see where your flight took you and what your speed,elevation,heading,etc was for each leg in the track.

I think that the best way to get really geeky reults is to use a GPS and video footage to record not only time but geographical location for the whole dive. To date, my best flight, according to the GPS, is a 5 miler but i am a bit skeptical with some of the readings in the track itself still.


outrager

Jul 21, 2003, 2:09 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Yo !

I wrote an article a while back on GPS use:

http://groups.google.com/...a.alt.net&rnum=1

Main points: chest strap is a bad location, your body blocks the signal. Helmet is ok, a pocket on the back side of your leg is probably the best place. Garmin eTrex Summit, Vista etc (GPS + barometric altimeter) is a good tool to have, as barometric altitude is more precise for our purposes. Get a satellite "lock" before exit by holding GPS by the window. It will continue to deadtrack for 30sec after losing a signal - use this time to exit promptly. With a recent software update (on garmin.com) it will keep tracking barometric altitude even after loosing satellites - very useful for jumping from a plane if you have trouble with a signal inside. You must download the current track to a PC to make use of most data (on Summit it's usually big enough for a few jumps). Don't save tracks in GPS as they get compressed and loose a lot of data, including time/speed.

bsbd!

Yuri.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jul 21, 2003, 3:45 PM
Post #21 of 28 (14388 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey, LouDiamond!

I've got a GPS V I use on my motorcycle, and it just occurred to me that the flat spot on your new RAWA would be a great mounting location. Put a Stoboframe quick release on and modify the dash mount to hold the GPS to the Stroboframe QR.

I have mine mounted on the handlebar of my scooter, and I've had it faster than anybody is going in a birdman suit. And the location would get great satellite reception.

'Cept for that big metal plate in your headTongue


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jul 21, 2003, 3:55 PM
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Re: [Deuce] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew there was a reason I liked youLaugh. I had actually thought of that right after I posted. I think with a little bit of modifing I can accomplish that. More to follow.....WinkLaugh


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jul 21, 2003, 4:01 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Heck, I'm already putting this thing together and all the parts are at home. That's the nice thing about the Stoboframe system, once you've got the bases on, you can click just about anything into them.

Since the bird people are last out, maybe you could just loiter in the door with your head out for a 30 count and then jump.

Wow. Just when I thought I had enough stuff on my head, I can now put a GPS on the top of my D-box....Pirate


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jul 21, 2003, 4:17 PM
Post #24 of 28 (14377 views)
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Re: [Deuce] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Since you have all the same gear that I do bring it to Eloy this year and we get a combined GPS reading from our flock dives. BTW, ordered that suit yet? Best cowboy up and get one now for it's too late.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jul 21, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] 1:25 from Troll [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll have to wait until I earn enough video money to get one. So I'll miss out on the pantz, but I'll continue to remain at least tenously marriedTongue I'll definitely have one this fall. I gotta get my GTi jumps mastered before that anyhow.

Yeah, we'll have to work on getting Garmin to sponsor us. We'll put an article with a wicked picture in the "Adventures in GPS" page for sure.TongueWink


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