Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Spring Loaded Pilot Chute

 


a97virago  (A 43434)

Jul 15, 2003, 12:58 PM
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Spring Loaded Pilot Chute Can't Post

On Sunday, I had 2 pc hesitations back to back. I don't think I've had these before. It has been hard to tell as I am used to a slightly snively opening. What could be causing the hesitations? Could it be packing, the PC or just dumb luck? I know how to clear it by looking over my shoulder and I have started making that a part of my opening sequence, but I'm stumped why all of a sudden am I having this issue?


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jul 15, 2003, 1:42 PM
Post #2 of 19 (936 views)
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Re: [a97virago] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Finally Stable?Wink Spring loaded PC hesitations are routine. Pulling in a track will fix it.Cool Actually that's what I did with my ParaComander. Nothing to do with packing unless your wrapping the material from the top around the bottom of the spring and retarding the launch. A lot of PC's jump, fall back down, roll off the side, and go.

You actually may be arching better, not dipping a shoulder on pull anymore, or something like that. Don't worry, you'll be done with them soon anyway.Smile


badlock

Jul 15, 2003, 3:02 PM
Post #3 of 19 (900 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Spring loaded PC hesitations are routine. Smile


Sounds bad.
What happens if anybody falls into Cypres?


skymedic  (C 33561)

Jul 15, 2003, 3:35 PM
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Re: [badlock] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What happens if anybody falls into Cypres?

bad things....hopefully skydivers jumping springloaded main PC's will know if they get a hesitation to look over there shoulder, dump air, and the thing will take off...if they are pulling so low that a PC hesitation will cause a cypres fire...well there pulling too damn low for there skill level....


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 15, 2003, 4:20 PM
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Most spring loaded PC have a standard 36" bridle and when launched the PC hits the end of the bridle and rebounds back on the pack tray.
Sparky


andy1  (D 70243)

Jul 16, 2003, 12:16 AM
Post #6 of 19 (822 views)
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Re: [a97virago] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly the same happened to me near the end of my progression. I think it's exactly as someone else said, you're getting more stable at pull time, which is something that can cause a PC hesitation with the spring loaded PC.


badlock

Jul 16, 2003, 12:57 AM
Post #7 of 19 (815 views)
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Re: [skymedic] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
What happens if anybody falls into Cypres?

bad things....hopefully skydivers jumping springloaded main PC's will know if they get a hesitation to look over there shoulder, dump air, and the thing will take off...if they are pulling so low that a PC hesitation will cause a cypres fire...well there pulling too damn low for there skill level....

I meant, what happens if you fall into Cypres and your springloaded reserve PC has a hesitation?ShockedUnsure


a97virago  (A 43434)

Jul 16, 2003, 5:16 AM
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I guess that's both good and bad news! Like I said, I will be making a conscience effort to look after I pull. But to know that being more stable at pull time (and flying bigger, I fall like a stone) is actually causing this, is disquieting.


chuteless  (D 41)

Jul 16, 2003, 6:07 AM
Post #9 of 19 (789 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont think advising someone to pull in a track is good advice....his lights will likely go out because of the higher speed and sudden change of position of the brain. I would however, suggest that as he dumps, that he drop his feet into an almost standing position, thus allowing the air flow to come up over his back, taking the PC with it. It makes for an easier opening shock as well.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jul 16, 2003, 6:31 AM
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Re: [chuteless] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Pulling in a track was ment as a joke. But, I did do it routinely with my Paracommander and it MIGHT be appropriate for experienced jumpers familiar with their equipment with some of the slow opening canopies. Moving to a more upright position does work well but also takes some experience to be able to do it reliably and with stability. Not a newbie manuver. Expecially since spring PC's are usually only used by students.

Newbie advice Arch, keep your shoulders level, pull, count to whatever your were trained and look. Looking usually clears the PC if it isn't gone already. Hesitations were one motivation for the development of the throw out PC.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jul 16, 2003, 6:37 AM
Post #11 of 19 (774 views)
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Re: [a97virago] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

With 24 jumps (or more) you ought to be transitioning to throw out gear soon. So why worry? PC hesitations are NOT a malfunction. We teach our students to count to five then check. This is enough time for most to clear and if not checking blows it off.

Of course your heart does go THUMP THUMP when you pull and nothing happens.WinkCool But more rush for your skydiving dollar.Smile

Terry


chuteless  (D 41)

Jul 16, 2003, 8:07 AM
Post #12 of 19 (761 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

GIVING ADVICE ON THIS THREAD SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN AS A JOKE. THERE ARE TOO MANY STUDENTS WHO THINK ABOUT IT, THEN ATTEMPT IT, SAYING, OH SOME GUY WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE SAID TO DO IT.......... THAT IS AFTER HIS LIGHTS COME BACK ON. SOME OF THESE GUYS ARE WUFFOS DISGUISED AS STUDENTS..


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jul 16, 2003, 8:31 AM
Post #13 of 19 (753 views)
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Re: [chuteless] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

That is exactly true. There are, in fact, a number of offenders on these forums who will type things just to raise their post numbers, like that really means anything, That said, the specified forums, such as this one, are absolutely NOT the place to be posting coy remarks that might be construed as fact by students or inexperienced skydivers. If you just can't help yourself, then AT LEAST write a blurb stating that you are just kidding. Enough of that....

Now, back to the topic of the thread:
There was a comment earlier in the thread about "getting your bell rung" by pulling in a track. While that is true in some instances, there are in fact a lot of people who do exactly this nowadays. This is possible for a number of reasons. First, alot of newer canopies do open slow enough that it won't hurt either the equipment or the jumper. Second, in an efficient high-lift track you are quite possibly going slower vertically than when you are "flat, dumb, and happy."

Next, there are still a few people who jump spring-loaded pilot chutes as their preferred main deployment method. Mike "Michigan" Sandberg among them. He pulls sitting straight up in a knee-fly on every jump I have ever witnessed. He also uses old, surplus MA-1 pilot chutes. Pulling in that sat-up position allows his PC to fire straight into clean air, thus no need to "clear" over your shoulder during the pull sequence. Hey, it works for him.

Chuck


steve1  (D 23640)

Jul 16, 2003, 9:16 AM
Post #14 of 19 (741 views)
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Re: [a97virago] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In the early 70's everyone had spring loaded pilot chutes. They were much smaller than the ones students use now days. I think they were the small ma-1 pilot chutes, (that SkyMonkeyOne mentioned). At any rate pilot chute hesitations were common. I got in the habit of sitting up on almost every jump to help get the pilot chute out of the burble on my back. I would also elbow my pack tray if things weren't stringing out off my back. This seemed to help on hesitations, but maybe isn't the right thing to do. Pilot chute hesitations can be dangerous. It's easy for a student to loose track of altitude. It's good you were so aware of what was happening.......Steve1


chuteless  (D 41)

Jul 16, 2003, 9:20 AM
Post #15 of 19 (740 views)
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Re: [steve1] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes in the 70s they used MA-i Pcs, and I used two of them on my Para Commander, and sat up for every opening. I still have 1 Strato Cloud square and a belly wart 23ft reserve. The square has a 36" Hotdog PC, with a spring that is about 30 inches high. When the pack opens, believe me, its gone. I still sit up for openings, and its the best way.


riggermick  (D 17071)

Jul 16, 2003, 11:52 AM
Post #16 of 19 (723 views)
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Re: [steve1] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In the early 70's everyone had spring loaded pilot chutes. They were much smaller than the ones students use now days. I think they were the small ma-1 pilot chutes, (that SkyMonkeyOne mentioned). At any rate pilot chute hesitations were common. I got in the habit of sitting up on almost every jump to help get the pilot chute out of the burble on my back. I would also elbow my pack tray if things weren't stringing out off my back. This seemed to help on hesitations, but maybe isn't the right thing to do. Pilot chute hesitations can be dangerous. It's easy for a student to loose track of altitude. It's good you were so aware of what was happening.......Steve1


The hand deploy and pull out pilot chutes were developed to over come the increasing number of pilot chute hesitations due to the ever increasing size of the jumpsuits being used in the 70's. I used to jump a silly suit and then a Dar vader (you know, the ones with the plastic reinforcing ribs in the legs. When I got my first hand deploy rig (a Wonder hog fl 2 with a belly band)it took care of the hesitation problem I was experiencing with my old Guardian Hawk wedge container. Ah yes, I can still remember the plastic ripcord, the ol shot and a halfs, the 23' tri con that barley fit in to the reserve container and of course the old faithfull Strato Star. Total weight about 40 lbs. Oh, I had a jesus cord also.

Mick.


a97virago  (A 43434)

Jul 16, 2003, 12:26 PM
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Re: [riggermick] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

I hadn't even thought about my jumpsuit. I've been working with a floaty coach, and have been told by fellow instructors that I fall like a safe. So, I have been flying "bigger" but that puts me at the limit of my "bigness" to keep up with my coach. So on sunday, I switched to a larger jumpsuit (flared arms and legs). That could very well attribute to the hesitation!


a97virago  (A 43434)

Jul 16, 2003, 12:37 PM
Post #18 of 19 (708 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

About transitioning to my own gear, yeah, I'm getting close. Gonna finish out this season with student rental gear, so it's something I'll have to deal with. Just another thing to think about I guess.


a97virago  (A 43434)

Jul 16, 2003, 12:49 PM
Post #19 of 19 (701 views)
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Re: [steve1] Spring Loaded Pilot Chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the kudos! Even as a newbie, I try to know what's going on. I may not always succeed, but I try.



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