Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Foggy Lens, What to Do?

 

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danwayland  (D 22316)

Jun 16, 2003, 1:17 PM
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Foggy Lens, What to Do? Can't Post

Hot and humid on the ground, nice and cool up top.

I land, pick up my crap, and get ready to film the tandem landing. I notice that my stupid lens is all fogged up. I take off the wide angle lens. Still foggy. I wipe the regular lens with my shirt. Still foggy.

It's on the stupid inside of the stupid regular stupid permanant stupid lens. Other camera guys had the same problem that day.

Anybody know any tricks to avoid or reduce such a problem? I've got a PC-1 if it matters.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jun 16, 2003, 1:42 PM
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yikes. Virginia.

Hot. Humid. Red. Green. Woodland.

Rain-X makes some disposable lens wipes, or glass cleaning that have the anti-fog stuff on them. Probably available at Auto Parts stores. I think I got mine at Wal Mart.

They are improving my goggles from fogging up, and I use them on my lenses, but humidity in this part of California is high if it gets much over 30%.

Have you tried a Camera Condom?


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jun 16, 2003, 1:58 PM
Post #3 of 42 (1556 views)
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Re: [Deuce] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, the issue is that when ya go some place really hot & humid things start acting a little goofy in a really non-good way.

Lenses are a lot like your ears in that they want to kind of equalize the pressure between the inside and the outside, so on the way up to altitude they start venting air and what makes things worse is they also start getting colder.

Ok, so now you're on jump run and everything looks just honky-dory. Climb out on the step and no issue, but as soon as you start falling at 10,000 feet per minute or thereabouts (man, am I talkin' folksy here or what?) all that much warmer and humid air starts seeping back in between the nice cool lenses and it starts to look like the outside of a cold one on the 4th of July weekend. In other words, stuff starts condensing on the inside of the lenses and there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about it either.

Falling through clouds can also kind of screw things up by forcing water inside.

IF you're a really carefull type of person, you can try to take it apart or maybe even bake it dry in an oven, but that can have mixed to no results.

We almost never have this issue here in SoCal, but my guess is they deal with it every day in Florida.

Anybody from that way have any good solutions?


(This post was edited by quade on Jun 16, 2003, 2:00 PM)


jdhill  (D License)

Jun 16, 2003, 2:08 PM
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a problem here in TX in the summer... not much you can do about it... anti-fog on the lens surface may help some... another trick is to take a hand warmer (wal-mart hunting section) and put it in a sock, put the sock over the lens for the ride to altitude... this will work in "mild" conditions...

This past weekend, we had several layers... camera would fog up around 8k, then clear, then fog again around 6k. Nothing was working to stop the fog that day.

Josh


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jun 16, 2003, 4:06 PM
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Re: [quade] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
(man, am I talkin' folksy here or what?)

Frankly, Yes, Q-dog. You been moonlighting over at The Nashville Network or sumpin?

Sly


Rdutch  (D 24618)

Jun 16, 2003, 4:16 PM
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

I used to use Kenko, and Sony lenses, and they would fog, but now I use a Diamond lens, I have no problem whatsoever, even on the mugiest florida day. Its a solid piece of glass, so there is no equiliztion problems and its solid glass. I did make sure I put my camera and lens in a bag with silica gel packs in the bottom, for a few hours, then while in the bad, I screwed the lens on, so there wouldnt be any residule moisture in between the lens and the camera. You can buy silica gell at most hobby stores, and if you are having moisture anywhere near your camera, humidity ext, you should store your camera when your dont with some near it to remove the moisture, camera's hate moisture.

If you dont want to buy a Diamond lens there is a real interesting article by Wes Rich from skydiving Magazine a few months back, where he describes in great detail how to anti fog your lens.
Good luck.


FeFe  (D 462)
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Jun 17, 2003, 5:20 AM
Post #7 of 42 (1468 views)
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Re: [Rdutch] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
there is a real interesting article by Wes Rich from skydiving Magazine a few months back, where he describes in great detail how to anti fog your lens.
Good luck.
any way to get it online? tnx


slayer21016  (D 21016)

Jun 17, 2003, 5:24 AM
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

The quality of the GLASS or how the GLASS is made, by who, what process was used to make the GLASS and even the properties of the GLASS will dictate whether the lens beads, fogs slightly or ruins the video. you get what you pay for. cheap lenses from kenko,raynox,sony,cannon etc allot of times are hybrid lenses made of cheap glass and plastic great on the ground bad for what we do which is shrink and expand the glass. scratches on the lens or cheap lenses that usually have very irregular surfaces are great place for water molecules to hang out and ruin an other wise good video. it's these scratches and irregular surfaces that allow fogging and of course you need a drastic temp change and a high amount of H2O. your jumping location has a large influence on fogging and those with a low relative humidity have an advantage over those who don't. there are allot of lens manufactures out there that make high quality lenses that you'll have to find on your own because they don't sell there lenses to the skydiving community but these lenses will fit and work on consumer camcorders BUT you'll have to find them your self. good quality glass is a start to reducing fogging because the lens is more important than the camera. this issue also affects lens flare.

(DON'T BE CHEAP)


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jun 17, 2003, 11:33 AM
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Re: [quade] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Anybody from that way have any good solutions?

Yup.

A trick I picked up from Winkler at Aerohio - inbetween jumps on humid days, put your lenses into a vacuum decompresion chamber.

Old FXC calibration chambers are not too hard to find at DZ's that've been around for a while. The vacuum of the chamber will suck out the moisture.

_Am


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jun 17, 2003, 11:54 AM
Post #10 of 42 (1430 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting solution.

I remember in high school physics we used to make ice by putting a cup of water into a vacuum chamber, but I suppose that with the small amount of water inside the lens there wouldn't be enough of it remaining to form ice.

If, at the end of the vacuum session, you vented very dry air into the chamber then it might also work as a slight preventative for a couple of jumps.

Hmmm . . . I wonder if this would be worth the cash.


(This post was edited by quade on Jun 17, 2003, 12:04 PM)


Montfrer  (D License)

Jun 17, 2003, 3:23 PM
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Back during the Y2K scare I remember hearing about how the survivalists would store dry beans and such. They would put the beans or whatever in a plastic 5 gallon bucket with a lid, then run a hose into the bottom of the bucket. The hose was hooked to a nitrogen bottle, nitrogen was fed in slowly, which forced out the air, then the lid was placed on the bucket. Nitrogen should dry any moisture in the camera.


danwayland  (D 22316)

Jun 17, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Re: [Montfrer] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for all the tips. I will soon be the only camera flyer in the world with a nitrogen filled FXC calibration chamber coated in rainex and packed to the brim with silica gel mounted on my helmet.

MAN WILL I EVER LOOK COOL!!!!!


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Jun 17, 2003, 7:25 PM
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Re: [quade] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If, at the end of the vacuum session, you vented very dry air into the chamber then it might also work as a slight preventative for a couple of jumps.

Because he did it with enough frequency, it WAS preventative. I can't explain it in technical terms, but sucking out the really moist air and allowing "normal" sorta-moist air back in was all that was required.

His lenses would still fog up on serious cloud, but would work fine in many clouds that others didn't.

I mentioned the FXC chamber for a reason - that's actually what he used. I don't believe they are capable of creating anything even slightly resembling a true vacuum, which could create ice. He'd leave the lenses in the chamber sometimes for extended periods of time.

_Am


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jun 17, 2003, 8:21 PM
Post #14 of 42 (1359 views)
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Re: [danwayland] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for all the tips. I will soon be the only camera flyer in the world with a nitrogen filled FXC calibration chamber coated in rainex and packed to the brim with silica gel mounted on my helmet.

MAN WILL I EVER LOOK COOL!!!!!

Noice! Wink


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 18, 2003, 6:53 AM
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Re: [slayer21016] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

  Wow, great advice dude. You mentioned every brand of lens NOT to buy, but no mention of brands to buy, or where to look for them.

Oh, and "DONT BE CHEAP", in all caps, is hard to take from a guy with 3000 jumps who's jumping a Dolphin with no Cypress.


slayer21016  (D 21016)

Jun 18, 2003, 7:54 AM
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Re: [davelepka] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

And your point is ?.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 18, 2003, 8:11 AM
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Re: [slayer21016] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

My point:

A: danwayland was looking for advice on what TO do , not what NOT to do (such as not buying a cheap lens). You proceeded however to inform us all of the design flaws of inexpensive lenses, while making a non-specific reference to some higher quality lenses we should be using, without offering any actual useful information.

B: Assuming your profile is current and correct, it seems odd that someone with your consideralbe jump numbers would be jumping the least expensive container on the market without an AAD, and then would turn around and advise others to not be "CHEAP".

You knew what my point was from the start, dude.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jun 18, 2003, 9:57 AM
Post #18 of 42 (1313 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't it amazing how certain things trigger immediate and highly emotional responces from people?

I find myself in this mode every once in awhile and just can't figure it out. Maybe it's the phrasing or maybe it's because I didn't have my morning coffee yet.

I dunno.

Take this thread for instance. A guy says something that he thinks is pretty innocent and because of who I am and recent events in my life, I decide to go off on him. Then another person chips in and I feel like I have to justify another camera flyer's position on a similar instance.

Anyway, it's just wacky.

Why do we do this?


(This post was edited by quade on Jun 18, 2003, 10:08 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 18, 2003, 10:05 AM
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Re: [quade] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

 Very good observation. We're all just human I guess, and we make mistakes. Of course some of us are just stupid humans.....no, I'm kidding, really...I will agree to disagree on this matter.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jun 18, 2003, 10:40 AM
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Re: [quade] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Q, thanks for that thread, I don't know how I missed it.

When I was doing big way last weekend the camera flier was lousy. Really bad. A very nice 18 year old fellow who's ringsight was inoperable because his camera setup was a disaster. He was trying hard, but missed lots of stuff that would have had me waiving my fees. I talked with him about RW filming, and some suggestions regarding his helmet as I got a firewire of his stuff. We get done and he says "That'll be $5".

Well, I paid him, but I would have preferred a professional courtesy. On the other hand, I'm getting pressured all the time to give up my digital stills for nothing, and I feel like a heel sometimes for telling folks to just buy them off my site.

I think the place I gotta get to is one where I know when I'm wearing the wingsuit, I'm getting paid.

It just sometimes gets in the way of the vibe.Unsure

JP


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jun 18, 2003, 10:58 AM
Post #21 of 42 (1297 views)
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Re: [Deuce] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I feel like a heel sometimes for telling folks to just buy them off my site.

WHAT!!! You were the mutha fucka telling me that I need to be getting my just compensation for my camera work and editing a few weeks back. you fall on your head or have aliens wiped your mind? Tell those MOFOs the web addy and drive onWink


Deuce  (D 25597)

Jun 18, 2003, 11:43 AM
Post #22 of 42 (1290 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I feel like a heel sometimes for telling folks to just buy them off my site.

WHAT!!! You were the mutha fucka telling me that I need to be getting my just compensation for my camera work and editing a few weeks back. you fall on your head or have aliens wiped your mind? Tell those MOFOs the web addy and drive onWink

Hey, WingBoy, "Do as I say" and all thatWink


newshooter12  (D 29298)

Jun 18, 2003, 11:47 AM
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Re: [Deuce] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just go with the web man... I know all i'd really want was to look at a bunch and possibly pick up one or two of the ones I like if I ever jumped with you. So why would I waste your time editing and burning a disc for me to look at? Smile
Hey if they're good friends they'll probably understand it's cheaper and easier for both you as well as them to do it that way on shutterfly.
That's one of the downsides of being a Photog, Every piece of equipment costs a good amount of dough and you need to reclaim the cost somehow... sounds like you're open to people paying you in other ways, but don't let them take advantage of you too much.
matt


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Jun 18, 2003, 11:49 AM
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Re: [Deuce] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Hey, WingBoy, "Do as I say" and all that

Next time they ask for a freebie point at that IMAX camera on top of your helmet and ask the if they think you got it out of a cracker jack boxLaughWink


jdhill  (D License)

Jun 18, 2003, 12:07 PM
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Re: [Deuce] Foggy Lens, What to Do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think the place I gotta get to is one where I know when I'm wearing the wingsuit, I'm getting paid

Then it becomes work... Don't get me wrong, I rarely give any of my stuff away for free, but I get on a fair amount of loads just looking for good things to shoot... if I get something sellable or publishable, great...

Now for teams and students, that's a different story... although those are becoming less and less of my jumps (by choice).

Josh

EDIT: Has this thread been sufficiently hijacked?


(This post was edited by jdhill on Jun 18, 2003, 12:07 PM)


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