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Second jump and fractured tibula

 


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 8, 2003, 8:00 PM
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Second jump and fractured tibula Can't Post

Frown Thats the short story, second jump and fractured tibula. JippididooFrown. Here is the longer version.

I have a long running interest in skydiving, and finally decided to take a course. I have been involved in number of "risk" sports for long times
(35 years in diving, 25 years in offshore racing, 30 years in enduro, serious downhill 37 yrs etc...) and have not had any serious injuries. Personally I consider myself as pro safety to extreme, and I feel that is the reason I have enjoyed my selected sports for such long time. I don't start up easily on a new thing, nor do I quit.... but....Unsure

After five days of training I had my theoretical followed by a static line jump from 1000 meters with
manta 280 canopyCoolCoolCool. I loved it. Could not stop smiling for one hour afterwards.

I had had a few conserns beforehand. I did not like the altimeters used, because the last 1000 feet on the dial covered only roughly 15 degrees of arc. I thought it was difficult to read. I could not locate a better one before the first jump, so I thought to let it pass.Pirate

I was also concerned of getting proper jumping shoes, did not have luck in finding ones, so I jumped with my nike runners.Unsure

I was concerned with the potential line twists common in static jumps, but when it occurred, kicked it out ok.Wink

And finally i had serious concern about the position you are supposed to keep your feet upon landing, 45 degrees of the line of flight, beeing a big lad with 110 kg exit weight, I thought that my ankles would not approve, and so I landed my first one with feets pointing directly ahead, and could have stood the first landing.Wink

So, with these concerns I went for the second jump, exit was good, arc was ok but has a line twist down to my neck at deployment. I got it kicked out and had good canopy at 800 meters, and I was happy as a clam enjoying the ride down.

I started my approach at light wind conditions at 1000 feet, went for side wing at 600 and turned on the final, but apparently too high due to the hard to re4ad meter. On final the radio coach was concerned
of a possible overshoot and guided me into S turns and sure enough I went into slight pendulum motion.
(This is not to blame the coach. It was my decision to comply and after the incident I felt sorrier for the coach than for myself)

I realized that due to the lack of headwind the approach was faster than the first one and because of the slight swing I really tried to prepare for a book landing, placed my feet on 45 degree angle and landed on full breaks from about 10 feet without drama....... except a %&^*""
multiple fracture on my left foot tibula.Pirate

If it would have been my 21st jump or the 210th jump so be it. But on the second jump on 6 week vacation that was supposed to be dedicated for taking up the sport.

I spent the rest of the vacation hopping at least twice a week on crutches to the dropzone to see the other guys jumping..... I felt like a moron and still do....
I am now back at work and considering if I can afford an other shot at great, but in my case a rather painful sport. Well six weeks to consider before I am on dry land again.

So what is the lesson if any? I should have believed my instincts on the angle of my feet. What works for a ballerina does not appear to work on 110 kg hunk of meet. I should have had proper shoes and altimeter I could clearly rely and more than anything I should not have made any turns under 300 feet..... I guess.

Any of you been involved in similar sh.. in the bequinning of your careers? Any info where to look for good rotating altimeters (similar dials as in aircraft)?

Still don't know what I am going to do. Maybe I should start on numismatics.

UnimpressedUnimpressed


Quote:


poohbeer  (Student)

Jun 9, 2003, 6:53 AM
Post #2 of 19 (2244 views)
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

Mmm, I'm certainly no expert at the matter (read grey sig below) but PLF'ing (feet 45, roll in the direction you're traveling) is the best method for even a 300 pounder - if done correctly. It is designed NOT to strain any part of your body in specific but to divide the speed over your entire body.

I also don't see what's wrong with nike sneakers. Ok, they don't have the best ankle support but that isn't needed. Hell, soft movable sneakers will be a big plus if you start free falling since it's easier to feel the wind on your toes - I've been told by my instructors.

If you landed with your feet at 45 angle to your direction + a continued PLF! after flaring from 10 feet high (and keeping it flared) with a big slow 280 feet manta, I think you are just one very unlucky guy to not have walked away without injury.
But please, listen to those instructors when you go up next time (offcourse you will, no sport is as much fun as skydiving and you haven't even experienced to most fun part: freefall) Cool, they have been in the business for a long time so Ithink we may safely presume they know it A LOT better than we do.


BenGriffiths  (B 103613)

Jun 9, 2003, 10:10 AM
Post #3 of 19 (2191 views)
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Any info where to look for good rotating altimeters (similar dials as in aircraft)

An altimeter is never goign to be accurate to tell if your at 200 feet or 250 feet.

Altimeters don't measure altitude - they measure barometic pressure. The best way to work out your altitude down low is to use your eyes, unfourtunately that sort of judgement only comes with experience.

As for jumping in trainers - that won't havebeen a problem - in fact most centers advise against boots.

A correctly performed PLF will do the business.

Sounds like you just landed akwardly.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jun 11, 2003, 8:13 AM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all I had radio guideance. I was told what to do.

Flare of full break? What kindda canopy have you used?

No turns under 300feet? Why were you swinging?

phoenix


markbaur  (D 6108)

Jun 11, 2003, 8:54 AM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
110 kg exit weight

=240+ pounds. The usual definition of exit weight is what the scale would show if you were fully geared up and stepped on one just before boarding the aircraft. Is that what you mean, too?

Mark


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 11, 2003, 4:01 PM
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Re: [poohbeer] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

 I agree, but my foot does not. There was no drama in landing, PLF went ok, but the foot did not agree with that either. So the next time my feet will point directly ahead.

cheers w4p2


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 11, 2003, 4:06 PM
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Re: [BenGriffiths] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree in what you say, however reading 1000 feet ond 360 degree dial is still better than reading the same over 15 dedgee arc.

The type of altimeter that I am looking for was, at least in the past used in precession jumping.

cheers w4p2


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 11, 2003, 4:13 PM
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Re: [markbaur] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

280 f2 manta with total exit wait, including gear, 110 kg. Only reason for the incident that I can think of is just bad luck and unsuitable position of the feet.

cheers: w4p2


jceman  (D 19212)

Jun 11, 2003, 7:06 PM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not asking this to give you grief or call you a dumbass or anything like that, but one thing has been bothering me since you first posted this incident report: what bone did you really break?

There are two main bones in your lower leg, the tibia and the fibula; you stated you broke your "fibula". Does this mean you broke both (commonly referred to as tib/fib) or just one?

Like I said, I'm not trying to bust your chops here, just really curious as to the extent of your injury. I'm hoping you only broke the tibia, as it is the least weight bearing of the two, but seeing as you used the "ula" construct, I fear you broke your fibula.

At any rate, listen to your ortho doc and work you ass off in PT to get back on your feet as soon as possible, and back in the sky if you choose.


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 11, 2003, 7:44 PM
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Re: [jceman] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

You are correct, my spelling mistake, the fractured bone was tibia.

Unsure


jceman  (D 19212)

Jun 11, 2003, 7:50 PM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You are correct, my spelling mistake, the fractured bone was tibia.

Unsure

That's great as it is the lesser of the two bones and your rehab shouldn't be too bad.

Good luck.


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 11, 2003, 11:30 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2011 views)
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Re: [jceman] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

 Tongue

Thanks

I am limping along and flying in five weeks but I would still like to find information regarding alternative landing positions ( not meaning on your ass, nose or runningTongue, but serious alternatives for heavier lads, if any) as well as info of analog altimeters that would use same face configuration that is used in aircrafts giving aprox one full rotation of the pointer for each 1000 feet and having a second pointer for x 1000.

Cheers w4p2


markbaur  (D 6108)

Jun 12, 2003, 6:29 AM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

The typical analog skydiving altimeter can have an error of +- 250 feet. Digital altimeters show more digits, some indicating altitude to the nearest 100 feet, others to the nearest 10. The number of displayed digits does not necessarily mean increased accuracy; I don't know how accurate they are. The drawback to all the digital altimeters is there is no one-step method to see if you are in the "red zone."

Before there were skydiving altimeters, there were aircraft altimeters, installed on an instrument panel mounted on a belly-wart reserve. Aircraft altimeters depend on engine vibration to keep them from sticking, and so are not as reliable in skydiving applications.

I don't know of any two-needle skydiving altimeters. The problem is one of engineering, tolerances, and reliability. The aneroid bellows cannot move much, so translating very small bellows movements into enough energy to turn the 100's needle at 100 rpm (6 seconds per 1000 feet = 6 seconds for 10 revolutions = 60 seconds for 100 revolutions) would require a delicate almost friction-free series of gears that would fail the ruggedness test.

To get a two-needle altimeter with simple face markings also means a change of presentation, from the standard 12K clock-like face, to a 10K face, more like an aircraft altimeter. There are a few 10K Northstar altimeters still around -- I have one for sale -- but it's been years since I've seen one in actual use.

Perhaps one of our mountain-climbing friends can tell us of a two-needle climbing altimeter.

Trying to fly a canopy approach using precision instruments is a lot like trying to fly an instrument approach in a glider. It's possible, but it's easier to use visual cues (ground speed and angles).

Mark


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 12, 2003, 4:12 PM
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Re: [markbaur] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the information.

Once I was ashore, I called a couple of mountaineering shops, but got nowhere
through them.

So for me, the matter is closed and I will
go for a digital one.

Thanks for all of your contributions.

I will be limping along, and diving in five weeks.

cheers: w4p2Smile


BenGriffiths  (B 103613)

Jun 12, 2003, 4:21 PM
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Re: [w4p2] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

Remeber all barometic pressure altimters - rely on air pressure they are generally accurate give or take 200 feet. They won't tell you when to flare. And Skydiving Digital Alti's are barometric.

If you want to go super accurate. Get a GPS or RADAR alti.
-The first works using the GPS satelliate system. I don't know how accurate these are.
-RADAR Altimters work using a similar concept to SONAR. They can be very accurate give or take only a few inches. RADAR alti's are not commercially avliable (as far as I know) and are very expensive. And are usually stuck in the nose of a Jet Fighter than on the wrist of a skydiver.


(This post was edited by BenGriffiths on Jun 12, 2003, 4:23 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 12, 2003, 4:35 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1955 views)
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Re: [jceman] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

>That's great as it is the lesser of the two bones and your rehab
>shouldn't be too bad.

I think you're thinking of the fibula. Your tibia is the big bone in front, your "shin bone." A broken tibia is a fairly serious break. A broken fibula isn't; often a midshaft break of a fibula doesn't even require a cast.


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 12, 2003, 4:51 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1949 views)
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Re: [BenGriffiths] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

More than extreme accuracy I am looking 4 easy reading and I would only rely on units functioning on barometric principle. For me, 15 degrees of arc for last 1000 feet just does not cut it.

With regard to anything functioning based to (D)GPS
info, thank you, but no thank you. I play with these gadgets 12 hr / day six weeks at the time and while they are great in assisting you, they are one of the main problems in modern day navigation.

How would you like to depend on one, the moment US starts bombing s... out of some of the wall ajatollah.

Flaring with one?? LOL, I still have one good foot.

Cheers: w4p2 Tongue


jceman  (D 19212)

Jun 12, 2003, 6:06 PM
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Re: [billvon] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>That's great as it is the lesser of the two bones and your rehab
>shouldn't be too bad.

I think you're thinking of the fibula. Your tibia is the big bone in front, your "shin bone." A broken tibia is a fairly serious break. A broken fibula isn't; often a midshaft break of a fibula doesn't even require a cast.

Yep, must have been having a senior moment.Blush Worst part is I had the respective locations of the tib/fib right in my mind, but spazzed out on their relative size/strength.

going off to hand my head in shame now...


(This post was edited by jceman on Jun 12, 2003, 6:14 PM)


w4p2  (Student)

Jun 12, 2003, 7:24 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1936 views)
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Re: [jceman] Second jump and fractured tibula [In reply to] Can't Post

Tib versus fib

One thing I am rather sure of is that it is the left foot.Tongue, LOL

To set the record straight, it is the smaller one of the bones and healing just fine.

Cheers: w4p2



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