Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
vengeance canopys

 

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freakyflyr11  (D 28084)

Jun 2, 2003, 5:36 PM
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vengeance canopys Can't Post

does any one know how well a vengeance opens and will it swoop.compared to a cross fire2?


skygod7777  (D 24081)

Jun 2, 2003, 7:14 PM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

i jumped my buddy's vengence 97 for a while (about 100 jumps or so). it was a nice canopy, it opened nice, and flew nice. but it doesn't compare to the crossfire 2 at all. the swoops are decent, but it's really nothing more than a stilleto with airlocks (a little difference, but not much). the openings are kinda dancey, but so are the crossfires.

if you had to choose between those 2 canopy's, i would recomend the crossfire 2.

(i've put only 50 or so jumps on a crossfire 2's, a 89 and a 105)


later


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 2, 2003, 10:26 PM
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Re: [skygod7777] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
it's really nothing more than a stilleto with airlocks (a little difference, but not much).

I was under the impression they were basically totally different airfoils, along with different trim settings, not to mention airlocks...in other words, totally different canopies.

Where's Kolla when you need her? Wink


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jun 2, 2003, 11:00 PM
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Re: [skygod7777] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it's really nothing more than a stilleto with airlocks (a little difference, but not much).
Stilettos don't dive 700 feet.

Always go with PD always. You canopy will last for thousands of jumps, customer service will be top notch, and seldom needed maintenance will be cheap.


skymedic  (C 33561)

Jun 2, 2003, 11:11 PM
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Re: [ManBird] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Manbird, are you saying other manufacturers can't provide all of those same things? personaly I'd go with Icarus as I've received nothing but the best service from them. plus the Xfire kicks ass....


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jun 2, 2003, 11:18 PM
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Re: [skymedic] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

No, I am just saying that they have a much longer track record, and that they have earned a hell of a bias from me. ;) I basically see parachute manufacturers like this: PD and imitators.


skymedic  (C 33561)

Jun 2, 2003, 11:27 PM
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Re: [ManBird] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

So your a PD snob????TongueTongue

Well I'm an anti PD snob...so far I have yet to own a PD canopy..

PISA, Precision, and Icarus for me...and have no complaints about any of them other than my reserve issue with the DashM.


billdo  (D 25571)

Jun 3, 2003, 1:02 AM
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Re: [skymedic] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe he should get a Cobalt.

Uh oh! Here it comes!


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jun 3, 2003, 2:01 AM
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Re: [ManBird] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just being snide. There's innovation and quality coming from many manufacturers, but I just really like PD as a company. Personally, I hate seeing canopies getting compared. A Crossfire 2 is pretty damn different than Vengeance, and a Vengeance is pretty damn different than a Stiletto, and a Cobalt is... what the hell is that? ;)

I can take my 1994 Sabre coast-to-coast-and-then-some on our 200 ft pond. Someone in a Velocity always bails out. Someone on a Merit 160 can kick all of our asses. This basically says to me, fly what you enjoy flying, and you'll find a way to kick ass at it.


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jun 3, 2003, 2:02 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
does any one know how well a vengeance opens and will it swoop.compared to a cross fire2?
OK, my actual answer is this:

It will swoop as well as you make it swoop.


Samurai136  (D 26609)

Jun 3, 2003, 2:34 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't buy a Vengeance., Buy a Samurai.Wink

Ken


alain  (C 97601)

Jun 3, 2003, 6:08 AM
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Re: [ManBird] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This basically says to me, fly what you enjoy flying, and you'll find a way to kick ass at it.

amen Cool


NM156  (C License)

Jun 3, 2003, 6:15 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I can only comment on the Vengeance, since I have never jumped a Crossfire 2. I have over 200 jumps on a Vengeance.

The Vengeance have given me excellent openings (always very soft and on heading). The recovery arc is pretty long compared to the stiletto. You can definitely have some good swoop with the Vengeance and personally, I like the airlocks... but that's just preference.

Your best option is to try both and see which one you prefer.

NM156


ramon  (D 26115)

Jun 3, 2003, 6:47 AM
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hey [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink
I have ~200 jumps on a vengeance loaded at 1.7. They have light riser pressure (not like a stilleto). they dive very hard and have a negative recovery arc (not like a stilleto). They are a different animal and a great all round canopy if you work at a dZ and want to swoop alot. They are different from a samurai in that they have a very sensitive flare (like a stilleto), where a samurai flare is something that takes getting used to.

All of these canopies are non cross braced and will only surf so far. A good pilot on any of these canopies will out swoop a mediocre pilot on the other (and possibly a mediocre pilot on a cross brace).

A competition cobalt (flame away) will in the hands of the right pilot swoop further due to the thinnner cross section and reinforced nose.

A good pilot on a stilleto will surf pretty damn far, so....

OK so my actual opinion...I'd get a vengeance over a crossfire 2 simply based on the line trim fiasco the crossfires had. PD tests their products better than that other company. Both canopies swoop and open reasonably well.

My 2 cents

ramon


(This post was edited by ramon on Jun 3, 2003, 7:05 AM)


freakyflyr11  (D 28084)

Jun 3, 2003, 8:06 AM
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Re: [billdo] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

i have a cobalt that i bought last nov.and have had nothing but problems with.from the canopy to the cust. service.ill never buy a cobalt agian!!!!!by the way if ant body wants to buy a cobalt ive got a brand new one for sale!!!!


freakyflyr11  (D 28084)

Jun 3, 2003, 8:13 AM
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Re: [Samurai136] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

i demoed a sam.120 and didnt care for that style of canopy,espacaly the openings.but i will give it to brian the cust service was outstanding!!!the weekend i had it the weather sucked so i only got 3 jumps on it.when i told him of this he said to keep it another week..i thought that was cool and they are a great company.Smile


ManBird  (D 28001)

Jun 3, 2003, 8:51 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Buy Jump Shack's Firebolt and tell us what it's like.


Yoshi  (D 26770)

Jun 3, 2003, 8:52 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

anyone and everyone that has delt with a company will have something good/bad to say about it.. personally I have had nothing but the best experiences with icarus (even though my crossfire 1 was on the recall list) it was all delt with very professionally and quickly. (even providing me with a demo while it was being fixed) and others will say that they hate icarus... whatever your mood (since I jsut blabbered outCool) start a new threadWink this is about the crossfire and the vengance...


the crossfire 2 I believe is the highest performance non crossbraced canopy on the market. if you are looking for swoops and speed without dealing with a crossbraced canopy the crossfire is prob the best bet... but that is just my 2 cents!Laugh
-yoshi


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Jun 3, 2003, 8:53 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I can certainly vouch for Brian. While I have yet to jump ANY of his canopies.....I have heard nothing but good things about them from people that do. I have also met and jumped with Brian several times. He's a really nice guy. It also impressed me when I was at Z Hills in January. He was spending all day jumping someone elses canopy. Don't remember what the customer wanted done to it but Brian had "worked" on it and was putting it through it's paces to make sure it flew exactly like he wanted it to. I call that dedication to your cusomers when the owner of the company modifies and test flies your canopy for you.


flyhi  (D License)

Jun 3, 2003, 9:38 AM
Post #20 of 46 (2578 views)
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
i have a cobalt that i bought last nov.and have had nothing but problems with.from the canopy to the cust. service.ill never buy a cobalt agian!!!!!by the way if ant body wants to buy a cobalt ive got a brand new one for sale!!!!

I think I would have put those in two different posts. But that's just me.

I jump a Vengeance at 1.6 and enjoy it quite a bit. Not sure who said it opened on heading, but I really have to fly it through the openings. Those openings allowed me to perfect harness inputs. Never been slammed on an opening, though. Nice and soft and I have jumped with a camera on the last 20 or so. I pro-pack and am not real particular about it. Very nice.

It does not swoop long, but that may be due to operator head spacing. I can get it to slow way down, but even when it planes out with no toggle input, the length of the swoop is not monumental. Might consider downsizing to a 120 in a few more jumps, but for now I am very happy with the V.

BTW, it is my second one. The first one did a diving turn on three out of every four openings. PD took it back no questions asked. They definitely stand behind their stuff.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jun 3, 2003, 10:00 AM
Post #21 of 46 (2566 views)
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Re: [alain] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
This basically says to me, fly what you enjoy flying, and you'll find a way to kick ass at it.

amen Cool

That is absolutely true. A good pilot will wring the hell out of whatever is over his or her head.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jun 3, 2003, 10:04 AM
Post #22 of 46 (2561 views)
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Re: [flyhi] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

PD was working ona mod to make the openings on Vengences straighter and smoother. I'd contact them to see what the status of the project was. They asked for a few of the canopies at my DZ to be sent back so they could get the mod on them.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 3, 2003, 11:18 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

 I think the mod only applied to the larger sizes. I'm not sure what qualifies as "larger", but my 89 didn't fall under that heading. Loaded at 2.2 it seems to swoop pretty far, I guess..


Pablito  (D 24827)

Jun 4, 2003, 12:06 PM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

I have about 600 jumps on airlocks canopies. about 450 in a Vengance and 100 on the Jedei and 50 on a samurai.
I like the Airlock because I feel is a superior wing than the non airlock canopies. The vengance Opens sweet and swoops really nice, but is not as responsive as the Samurai. The Samurai has a get use to flare and I like that becuase of the awarness that creates for me. The vengance has an easier flare.
I shoot video and I have nothing to blame on the vengance for openings. Neither the samurai.
I never jumped Xfire. so I can talk about it.


blair700

Jun 6, 2003, 8:10 AM
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Re: [freakyflyr11] vengeance canopys [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey man, I only have 500 jumps, the last 75 or so on a Vengence 150 loaded at 1.56 or so. I'd say about 40 of them were tandem video jumps and the rest pretty even between winguit and freefly jumps. I transitioned to this canopy from a saffire 189 (flame away) and had a horrible time with opening headings on the first 20 or so jumps. Now it opens straight most of the time, but I've found my BEST opening are with the wingsuit. At pull time, I remain very still and symmetrical, and I'm not able to mess with the risers until I'm unzipped, and it seems to open straight. Less is more from my experience (not much obviously) on opening, stay centered in the harness and leave the risers alone. I leave the nose hanging straight down and exposed when I pack, and psycho it up like my sleeping bag from there. Always takes about 600-700 feet to open which is great with me....except on AFF videos Tongue
As far as the swoop, I'm no expert there either, but I've recently started working on more than 180 degree turns using the front risers and harness, and I came out of a 270 last weekend with the most distance/speed of any swoop I've had so far. And believe me, I could really rag that saffire out.
Anywho, my first inclination was to sell the canopy after all the bad openings, especially for wingsuit jumps, but I got it all worked out and I LOVE the Vengence now.


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