Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Hooking and Swooping

 


3fLiEr

Nov 1, 2001, 6:05 AM
Post #1 of 16 (2526 views)
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Hooking and Swooping Can't Post

Does anyone know where I can find some GOOD articles on the art of swooping - I am looking for articles on the mechanics and the areodynamics of swooping. The reason for this is that I am able to get some nice accurate hard 180 front riser hooks but more often than not I transfer to much speed into lift - a bit annoying! - If anyone has some constructive comments - please make em! - but I am looking for some good indepth articles to help build my knowledge on the subject..........

BSBD







Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 1, 2001, 6:27 AM
Post #2 of 16 (2517 views)
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Re: Hooking and Swooping [In reply to] Can't Post

Check out Brian Germains user manuals for his line of canopys at http://www.bigairsportz.com. He was writeing about the "corner" before half the skydivers hooking today knew what the "corner" was about. His Jedi manual is the one you really need. He also made an excellent post on rec.skydiving in the last week about swooping. Search the Googles archives for more info on his article. Wendy Falkner (I think) has a copy of the Jedi manuel on her website. Its good reading.

A rainy day at the DZ is better then a Sunny day at work


edid

Nov 1, 2001, 8:23 PM
Post #3 of 16 (2453 views)
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Re: Hooking and Swooping [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd also be interested in reading the articles on rec.skydiving. In fact quite a number of people refer to worthwhile articles on rec.skydiving. But, what or where is rec.skydiving. I have tried typing in www.rec.skydiving and other internet derivatives but can't seem to get there. Could someone, please, show me the way to rec.skydiving before I become wreck.skydiving



indyz  (D 28525)

Nov 1, 2001, 9:38 PM
Post #4 of 16 (2445 views)
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Re: Hooking and Swooping [In reply to] Can't Post

rec.skydiving is a USENET newsgroup, not a website. Type "news:rec.skydiving" into your web broswer (if you are using Internet Explorer or Netscape). If your newsgroup settings are correct, it will download the articles and you can read them. If it isn't set up, I can't help you, you will need to contact your internet service provider. Or, you can go to groups.google.com, and read it there.

USENET was extremely popular "back in the day," (the 80s and early 90s) before the web was even a glimmer in Tim Berner-Lee's eye, but has since been overrun by spam, and many of it's users have moved on to web-based message boards. Outside of us geeks who use it to discuss boring stuff like programming languages, the only things keeping it going are the massive amounts of hardcore pornography and erotic literature that you can find there.

--
Brian


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Nov 2, 2001, 12:25 AM
Post #5 of 16 (2436 views)
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Re: Hooking and Swooping [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you get to someplace that offers advanced canopy control training? I'm faaaarr from a swooper, but one of my co-workers (1200+ jumps, now flying a Crossfire loaded at 1.7ish) took the advanced course at Perris a couple of months ago and his swoops have increased in length, style and safety - before he took the course people were giving him shit about his hooks and landings, now he gets compliments from the guys who know what it's all about. imho WELL worth the effort and money if swooping is what you want to do.

There are a couple of good articles on PD's website - http://www.performancedesigns.com - in addition to the ones mentioned above.

pull and flare,
lisa


ramon  (D 26115)

Nov 2, 2001, 7:34 AM
Post #6 of 16 (2404 views)
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Article from APF [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a good little manual. Good job on wanting to more knowledge saves bones.

It is the one called high performance canopy handling manual
http://www.apf.asn.au/apf_services/publications.asp

Jerry Sobieski wrote an extensive book about high performance canopy flight discussing aerodynamics and swooping. It used to be on this website but can't be found now.

John Leblanc and the Australian Parachute Federation each wrote little manuals also and they added their own material and borrowed from Jerry.

I assume you can find John's on his website.

jump high
pull low
swoop long

well..not really pull low

ramon



Designer  (D 5771)

Nov 5, 2001, 9:47 AM
Post #7 of 16 (2306 views)
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Re: Hooking and Swooping [In reply to] Can't Post

By all means read Brian Germains stuff.I wish he had had the time to right a seperate owners manual for the "Jedei Sweptwing".That parachute(my parachute)flew quite different that the standard "Jedei".I learned alot in College by actually studying the Mathematics of the "Pendulum".It might be too much for some people?But,knowing the math,physics along with actual swoop experience will most certainly help.Hope this Helps.Rob.



fonz

Nov 6, 2001, 4:59 AM
Post #8 of 16 (2248 views)
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rec.skydiving (Was: Re: Hooking and Swooping) [In reply to] Can't Post

edid> I have tried typing in www.rec.skydiving and other internet derivatives

[ARROGANT NERD MODE ON]

It seems to me that you don't know what the word "Internet" really means.
Not something to be too ashamed about, since you're not the only one. Far from that.
The word Internet simply refers to this global computer network that allows for several services.
The best-known service is the WWW (World Wide Web). many people call this the internet, but that's not correct: there's more to the Internet than just WWW. In fact, the Internet is older than the WWW.
Other services offered by the Internet include (but are not limited to) e-mail, Usenet, FTP and Gopher.

Officially, a URL looks like protocol://something. For example,
http://www.dropzone.com (the http:// indicates WWW),
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org (the ftp:// indicates FTP),
mailto://avwerven@liacs.nl (the mailto:// indicates e-mail),
news://rec.skydiving (the news:// indicates Usenet)
file://usr/src/kern/panic.c (the file:// indicates a local file)
telnet://krypton.liacs.nl (the telnet:// indicates Telnet)
To make things even more difficult, URLs may contain all sorts of tags, like port numbers, passwords and lots more. But let's not go there now.

If the protocol:// thingy has been omitted, it can sometimes be very hard to figure out what you're looking at.
Below are some guidelines, but keep in mind that they are not foolproof.
Something saying www.whatever is usually a WWW address.
Something saying ftp.whatever is usually an FTP address.
Something with a @ sign in it is most likely an e-mail address
Something saying rec.whatever is usually a Usenet address.
Something saying comp.whatever is usually a Usenet address too.
Something saying alt.whatever is usually a Usenet address too.
Something with an IP address in it (e.g. 192.168.0.1) is usually a Telnet or WWW address.

When people say rec.skydiving, then news://rec.skydiving is what they usually mean.
So, we just found out that rec.skydiving is a Usenet address.
Now, what is Usenet? Before WWW got big, Usenet was one of the main uses of the Internet.
It's kinda like this forum. Usenet contains co-called newsgroups. There's a newsgroup for just about anything you can think of. TV series, sports, rock bands, ways of sex that you never knew existed and all sorts of psycho-yadda. A quick check reveals that my news server "feeds" over 14,000 newsgroups.
A newsgroup is sort of a message board. Anyone can post a message to a newsgroup and anybody can read the posted messages. Just like you need a browser to surf the WWW, you need a client program to read (and write to) newsgroups. Netscape (or Netsheep as I call it) and Micro$oft Outlook can do this, but there are better options. Especially Outlook is a particularly poor choice, for it's filled with bugs and security holes and because it rapes many common standards.

Anyway, one piece of advice: don't immediately start posting messages everywhere. Many people on Usenet are very touchy when it comes to standards and netiquette and are quick to flame whoever disobeys the rules. Take some time to find out about the particular do's and don't in a certain newsgroup. Note that most newsgroups despise HTML messages (use plain ASCII instead!). Attachments are generally NOT welcome anywhere on Usenet, except for specially dedicated newsgroups. If your newsgroup has a FAQ, read it. Asking common questions usually only yields replies like "Read the f***ing FAQ, you stupid newbie!". Pay attention to the way people quote each other (use the > thingies rather than the Outlook style).

And I think a short warning is in place here: the folks at rec.skydiving are an, ehm... special bunch. They tend to be extremely unfriendly towards newbies. There's many contradicting opinions. Some people will try and give serious, useful and sincere advice while other peoples' advice can be just f***ing dangerous. There's a lot of flaming and inside chat going on and spam is common as well. Realize that rec.skydiving is a long way from representing your average skydiving community. Don't get me wrong, there are some very friendly and sensible people there, but I think the group is being spoilt by a significant number of complete morons.

[ARROGANT NERD MODE OFF]

Hope I clarified some things, but looking at the length of this post, I doubt it :-)

Alphons

http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Nov 6, 2001, 6:49 AM
Post #9 of 16 (2232 views)
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rec.skydiving (Was: Re: Hooking and Swooping) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Fonz,
for such an arrogant computer nerd, you ought to be able to upload a forum picture properly. Yours is broken, so FIX IT NERD! Smile

Chuck

My webpage HERE


freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Nov 6, 2001, 7:11 AM
Post #10 of 16 (2231 views)
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rec.skydiving (Was: Re: Hooking and Swooping) [In reply to] Can't Post

"don't immediately start posting messages everywhere. Many people on Usenet are very touchy when it comes to standards and netiquette and are quick to flame whoever disobeys the rules"

Me......never.....Cool

"There once was a man named Enis.....Cool"-Krusty the Clown
Clay


skymedic  (C 33561)

Nov 6, 2001, 10:20 AM
Post #11 of 16 (2210 views)
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rec.skydiving (Was: Re: Hooking and Swooping) [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought I was the only one with the broken pic...now if we can only get the Puh-Bah to figure it out!!!

Marc
Because I fly, I envy no man on earth


3fLiEr

Nov 6, 2001, 7:20 PM
Post #12 of 16 (2179 views)
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Keep to the Sport and Subject [In reply to] Can't Post

I ask about Hooking and Swooping and the skydivers here gimme a load of bollox about computer stuff........ shit man........... this is SkyDiving not phuqking IT development ! - If I wanted to know about that I would subscribe to Rec.Geeks.and.Sad.lives.com or whatever..............

I dont want to plough through new postings just to find out that your phuqking pictures dont work or a lecture on what the internet is! - keep it real !


BSBD





fonz

Nov 7, 2001, 1:37 AM
Post #13 of 16 (2151 views)
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rec.skydiving (Was: Re: Hooking and Swooping) [In reply to] Can't Post

SkymonkeyONE> you ought to be able to upload a forum picture properly

Hey? It used to work...

SkymonkeyONE> Yours is broken

Probably happened during moving to the new server?

SkymonkeyONE> so FIX IT NERD!

<sysadmin mode>
Should be fixed now.
</sysadmin mode>

Alphons

http://www.liacs.nl/~avwerven


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Nov 7, 2001, 2:45 AM
Post #14 of 16 (2143 views)
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Re: Keep to the Sport and Subject [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the first two responses that were given gave you links to plenty of information. Also, doing a cursory search would have yeilded you more articulate answers. I am surprised how few people use the search tool in these forums and repeatedly ask the same questions over and over before taking one minute to punch in a set of parameters and see all that comes up. Still, you are correct in that we should keep the off-topic banter to the talkback forum. That is all....

Azul sends

My webpage HERE


3fLiEr

Nov 7, 2001, 3:30 AM
Post #15 of 16 (2136 views)
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Re: Keep to the Sport and Subject [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah point taken............ I hate the same thing on another board I read - you see the same questions over and over - sometimes I just dont have the time to sift!

Apologies again!

BSBD




cobaltdan  (D License)

Nov 7, 2001, 9:09 AM
Post #16 of 16 (2106 views)
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Re: Keep to the Sport and Subject [In reply to] Can't Post

>transferring to much speed to lift<

are you commenting on your recovery arc being too short and powerfull or are you generating too much lift in your swoop and lifting up slightly?

lift increases with the square of the wind speed over your airfoil.

if your canopy is lifting up and you want to go straight or down the solution is to change the angle of attack, basically lean on your front risers.

also you might want to try a carving 180 instead of a hard snap 180. shift your weight to the outboard side during your riser turn. this will make for a longer approach (safer) and maintain more speed into your swoop as a carve gives you a longer recovery arc.

safe swoops,

dan
atair






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