Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Hard landings

 


LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 26, 2001, 9:38 AM
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I am having trouble landing my canopy. I have 8 jumps and almost done with AFF. I have good canopy control, my pattern is good, but I have trouble calculating when to flare. Several times I flared too soon. Last weekend, I started to flare but it was too late and I had a real nasty landing on my butt. Xrays showed no broken bones, thank god for that! I just can't seem to get the right spot to flare. Any suggestions?



FallinWoman  (C 32269)

Oct 26, 2001, 10:21 AM
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The best advice I ever got while trying to land softly (still working on it!) was to look from side to side as I approached the ground. You know you shouldn't look at the ground, but watching the horizon did not help me. I glance from side to side to judge the proper height to begin my flare.



lummy  (A 40776)

Oct 26, 2001, 10:26 AM
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And how IS your bruised "Pride"?

Still get a giggle when I remember the nurse's face when you asked him "how many milligrams" :)

Think you'll be up to going on the 3rd?





LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 26, 2001, 12:54 PM
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LOL...My "bruised" pride is recovering nicely thank you! I'll be ready to go again on the 3rd...you still gonna be able to make it? That nurse didn't have much of a sense of humor!! :)



freeflir29  (D 10000000)

Oct 26, 2001, 2:42 PM
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First of all, make sure you are looking about 10 or 15 ft out in front of you on approach. If you look straight down you are screwed. Try riding a bike while looking straight down at the ground some time. It's impossible!
Next, I have heard two differen't methods and both actually work quite well. The first, wait until you say "OH Shit" the third time and then flair! The other, when landing on grass, wait until you can see individual blades of grass before you flare. Either way, keep it a smooth motion. Don't just yank down on the toggles all at once. Try to find the spot (Up high of course) in your brakes where your canopy seems to level out. This will be the first stage of your flare. Hold it there when you start your landing flare for a second or two and then ease the toggles all the way to the bottom. Other than that. Jump your ass off to build your skills. The more current you are the better off you will be.

"There once was a man named Enis.....Cool"-Krusty the Clown
Clay


LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 26, 2001, 3:31 PM
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Thanks Clay...I appreciate the advice. I don't look straight down, I was told that before. I was looking directly at my instructor, seemed like he was about 15 ft out when I realized I wasnt flaring yet. I like the "Oh Shit" advice! that's what I should have been saying at the time!! And true, practice makes perfect, or nearly anyway!!

I also like the idea of looking sideways as was previously suggested. I may try that one too.

Thanks again!



Albatross  (D 32026)

Oct 26, 2001, 5:38 PM
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While this is not a perminant solution you might try the two stage flare. By slowly bringing the toggles down to half breaks about 15' up you slow your rate of decent and give yourself a much larger "window" to correctly flare in. Also if you do mistime the flare and are late you are at helf breaks to begin with. The other thing is to really practice at altitude and see where the canopy stalls and how much time it takes. It is hard to get an exact distance but it is a painless start.

God bless us and God Bless America
Albatross


LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 26, 2001, 6:44 PM
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Ya know, that's what I was doing before, half breaks, and probably too high. Last week, I brought the toggles all the way up...I guess that gives you more speed coming in, and then I didn't react in time to even do half breaks. I'll do half breaks again...see what happens, but you're right...I should be practicing at altitude, not when it's too late!

Thanks Albatross!!



FallnAngel  (A 37726)

Oct 26, 2001, 6:47 PM
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Hi, LJ!

Sorry I haven't gotten a chance to meet you yet! You're jumping up in Davis, aren't you?? Boy, can I relate to the problems you are having!! I don't think I stood up more than 4 landings in my first 40-ish jumps. Landing is still one of my biggest challenges...and I have the black bruises on my ass from last weekend to prove it...but hopefully I can give you some advice that has helped me improve tremendously.

The other advice that you've gotten is perfect...watch the horizon, etc. I use my peripheral vision to get an idea of when my feet are at head-kicking height. If you're landing at the barn in Davis, then keep an eye on the flags...when you're feet are at their level , then *smoothly* flare. In the summer, you can use the corn as a guide...at least until you get a better feel for when to flare.

Ok, this idea is probably going to sound stupid, but it really did help me get better: Practice flaring! If you are walking down a stairwell, practice your flare as you walk down the steps.

Chances are you're still going to have some sucky landings, so *always* bring your feet together and get bend your knees. Stay flexible and roll out the landing. You'll still be bruised, but you probably won't break anything.

Oh, I just remembered one more thing...I don't know why, but I used to sometimes "reach" for the ground with my feet. If I had just kept milking the flare and waited a second longer before putting my feet down, I would have stood many more of my landings.

It will also help if you can have someone videotape your landings.

Hope this all helps at least a little...

Blue skies, Big smiles,
Karen



LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 26, 2001, 9:44 PM
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Karen: We need to talk g/f!! Thank you soooo much for the insight about the the flags & cornfield. Is it perhaps that women need something different than men to judge the flare time? Yes i do jump at Davis, I remember talking with you before. I would love to pick your brain if you don't mind. I think I'm getting the idea...but sounds like I'm having similar challenges as you did. Let me know if you'll be up on the 3rd...I'll be there at Davis about 8:30 or so.

Terri



FallnAngel  (A 37726)

Oct 27, 2001, 5:08 AM
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In reply to:
Karen: We need to talk g/f!! Thank you soooo much for the insight about the the flags & cornfield. Is it perhaps that women need something different than men to judge the flare time? Yes i do jump at Davis, I remember talking with you before. I would love to pick your brain if you don't mind. I think I'm getting the idea...but sounds like I'm having similar challenges as you did. Let me know if you'll be up on the 3rd...I'll be there at Davis about 8:30 or so.

Terri
You are so welcome, Terri! And we definitely should hook up! I am going to try to go out on the 3rd...if I don't have to work, I will definitely be there. Hope to see you soon Smile

Blue skies, Big smiles,
Karen

P.S.
There are several other gals out there that have/had the same landing issues that you & I do...so you've got lots of company!




PhillyKev

Oct 27, 2001, 1:31 PM
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The three oh shit rule did it for me.

cielos azules y cerveza fra

-Kevin


lummy  (A 40776)

Oct 29, 2001, 10:10 AM
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Okay, first off, I remember the thread about women vs men landings and PLEASE, let's not start that again!!!!
Teri, I know we've talked about this already, and from what I've seen, I think it's all in the timing for you. The landing I saw a couple of weeks ago, you were flaring 10-15 too high. Everyone has good advice here, and I'll throw mine in as well.
1)Practice flaring up high. Wait til you feel that canopy stall as well. And YES, I will be asking you
2) WATCH for point that doesn't move, that's where you are going to land, Eyes UP!!!
3) From what we've talked about, it sounds like you tend to flare too high as opposed to last weekend. If it were me, I'd go back to that point where I am flaring too high, except count to two (I think someone said three)THEN flare
3)Always be ready to PLF.
4) Keep asking for advice. Talk to Neil and Who was your jumpmaster, Stefano? Talk to them next weekend. Besides, they need to sign your car, don't they? Pick their brains...

Oh, Hi Karen!!! Do you jump at Skydance often?



LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 29, 2001, 6:34 PM
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Thanks Gary. I think I will try going back to where I flare too high, count 2 and then flare. Sounds logical to me. We can talk about it on the drive up and you can quiz me. And yes, Stefano was my JM. Hopefully he'll be there Saturday. Niell said that even if he isn't, they'll find someone to sign my card since we had to leave abruptly to get to ER : ) I thought for sure they were going to kick us out of there!! <giggles>

I did write in my skylog what I remembered about the dive...but I don't think I'll ever forget that one!! I still say that men seem to have a better depth perception than women, and that's why we have trouble!! Ok, that's all I have to say about that, I wont go there again!! LOL



shark  (D 24499)

Oct 29, 2001, 9:28 PM
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Terri,

I learned at Davis back in the summer of '99. I jumped with Stefano, but mostly with Neil. As I remember correctly, the student rigs had F111 canopies in them; Falcons, I think. Your landings will probably get better when you transition to a Zero-P canopy since they flare "differently" than the big falcons do. Are you jumping the big pink one with black stripes in the middle? Anyway, I think I had 15 jumps before I had a decent landing. Now I can nail the peas at night. So don't give up!

Mark
D-24499



kelly  (C License)

Oct 30, 2001, 12:23 AM
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something that has worked for me in the past and that I will do again when im healed up enough to jump:
go back on radio. It's that simple. Landing is one of the major mental things. You think youre going to screw up a landing, you do. Ive been on a radio several times. AFF for one, my 2 solos, when i downsized to a 170, then my first 2 or 3 jumps under a 150.
I went to the orthopedic today and he told me its better if i wait a couple more weeks before I jump again. that will have put me out for at least 6 weeks. And that's 5 weeks more than im comfortable with. Since i graduated AFF i was jumping at least once every 1 1/2 weeks. so even though im jumping the same canopy that ive been on for the past 15 jumps, im going back on. Just cause im worried that ill hurt myself again, and i know that having a trusted friend who is skilled in radio comm. is a big comfort.
my advice, go back on radio. dont rely on the person to land that canopy for you. Still be very active in deciding when to flare. It's a good feeling to start to flare just as they tell you FLARE!. It will give you the comfort of knowing that you were making the right height decision.
just what works for me..



"i can not attest to what i did, just what i remember...."
~me, after one too many


LittleJumper  (Student)

Oct 30, 2001, 7:24 AM
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Mark: How exciting that you trained with Neil at Davis! He's a great instructor as well as Stefano!! My canopy is rainbow, the 190...not sure what brand. You give me hope that I WILL land that puppy soon! And Kelli has some good advice too. Had I been on radio that day...I probably would have heard Stefano yell at me "FLARE!!" So, I'll suggest that they put me on radio again. Actually, that was my first solo without the radio.

Thanks again everyone...great advice!



FallnAngel  (A 37726)

Nov 1, 2001, 5:23 PM
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In reply to:
My canopy is rainbow, the 190...not sure what brand.
Aha! They have you on the medieval rig of torture!! I swear I had more bruises from that damn rig during AFF than I did from my crappy landings! haha Just fyi, I believe the canopy is a Triathlon 190...maybe they will let you jump the Omega 180 rig soon. That one is a Reflex & is quite a bit more comfortable.

Doesn't look like I will make it out there this weekend after all...work keeps interfering with my fun! <pout> We'll hook up eventually, though...until then, keep your head up, your eyes open, and don't say *too* many "oh shit" (s) before you flare, k?

Blue skies, Light winds,
Karen

P.S. to Lummy,
Hi there! Yup, I've been jumping at Davis for about 1-1/2 years. Learned from Neill & Dan Sommers & Stig...all of them are awesome! I hope I get to meet you soon! :-)



LittleJumper  (Student)

Nov 1, 2001, 6:53 PM
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Karen: That's too bad you wont be able to make it this weekend : ( Oh well, sometime soon we'll hook up.

And I think I'll have them put me on radio for another jump, just in case I end up saying "oh shit" too many times!!

I'll ask them about the 180 Omega, see what they say. I havent had too many bruises from the 190, except for those landings = O, but they put me on a 225 once and the damn right side of the harness around my leg dropped to my knee practically!! Plus, it was way too heavy!

Anyhoo, hope to see ya up there soon!



Shark  (D 24499)

Nov 2, 2001, 10:13 AM
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In reply to:
Yup, I've been jumping at Davis for about 1-1/2 years. Learned from Neill & Dan Sommers & Stig...all of them are awesome!
Hey, I've jumped with all of them, too. When did you go through AFF? I did my first jump on 6/12/99 and did my last jump on 8/21/99. Completed 14 jumps there before moving back home to SoCal.

///Mark




lummy  (A 40776)

Nov 2, 2001, 11:58 AM
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I learned mostly from Neill and Eddie who are Totally the best. I've has Stig and Ray as reserve sides and have only flown with Dan as pilot. All in all, a great place and wonderful people.

Karen, have we met before? I'm usually there on a Sunday, but I was doing the Wed nites late spring. How many jumps did you say you have?




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