Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
RSL question

 

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andy2

May 23, 2003, 1:26 PM
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RSL question Can't Post

quick question about RSLs. Do people rely on RSLs to pull their reserve for them? I know you should never rely on anything besides yourself, but I mean, is there time between a cutaway on a RSL to pull your reserve yourself? Or will your RSL beat you to it? Is it suggested to cutaway and try for the reserve yourself even if you dont think you'll be able to get it in time? I've been taught, look right, grab right, look left, grab left, peel right, pull right, peel left, pull left. Is my RSL faster than me?

I have heard mentioned once, allowing your RSL to do your work is bad on your reserve lines, or something to that effect? Can someone clarify that? Thanks!


CrazyIvan  (A 43359)

May 23, 2003, 1:30 PM
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

NEVER rely on anything, whatever they are, they are only BACKUPS.


ThighMan  (D 23918)

May 23, 2003, 1:34 PM
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Pull the Reserve Handle. I would hate to hear about someone who "Went In" because they thought the RSL would pull the reserve for them. Things break and shit happens.


iowa  (D 16855)

May 23, 2003, 1:34 PM
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

If your RSL is hooked up and functions properly you won't beat it. But never count on it to do the job for you. On most containers the RSL will kink your reserve ripcord somewhat. It may still be fine but your rigger can tell you if it needs to be replaced.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 23, 2003, 1:36 PM
Post #5 of 31 (1854 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is it suggested to cutaway and try for the reserve yourself even if you dont think you'll be able to get it in
time?
Skydive as if you had no RSL and no AAD. Pull your handles. Don't rely on anything but you to save your ass.

In reply to:
I have heard mentioned once, allowing your RSL to do your work is bad on your reserve lines, or something to that effect?
On most container systems, allowing the RSL to pull the reserve pin is going to put a kink in the reserve ripcord cable. If the kink is bad enough the ripcord may need replacing.


andy2

May 23, 2003, 2:17 PM
Post #6 of 31 (1826 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

ok, thanks guys, I knew I would get the "NEVER RELY ON IT" answer the way I worded my question. Common sense taught me that long before I even went to my FJC. Thanks for giving me good information, peace outCrazy


thecap  (A 43861)

May 23, 2003, 9:30 PM
Post #7 of 31 (1761 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very inexperienced, but would imagine it is good to always practice pulling both handles. Practicing the motion may save your life if you jump a rig without a connected RSL one unlucky day.


Jimbo  (D License)

May 23, 2003, 10:59 PM
Post #8 of 31 (1747 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
Is my RSL faster than me?

I hope so.

If you come down with proof that you beat your RSL it likely means you did something wrong.

-
Jim


poohbeer  (Student)

May 24, 2003, 12:47 AM
Post #9 of 31 (1742 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've been taught, look right, grab right, look left, grab left, peel right, pull right, peel left, pull left.

don't know what peel is but shouldn't pull right be before you grab left? Otherwise you loose time going from right to left and back again, no?


tb62871  (A 23465)

May 24, 2003, 5:31 AM
Post #10 of 31 (1721 views)
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Re: [poohbeer] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

He is using one hand on each handle. The peel is to seperate the velcro before you start to pull the handles.


poohbeer  (Student)

May 24, 2003, 5:45 AM
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Re: [tb62871] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

ok, understand now..
We are being thought to look at the "cutaway"-handle, grab that handle with both hands, look at the reserve handle, pull the cutaway handle, grap reserve, pull.
Just a tad slower in executions but no peeling needed since you've got force from both arms.. witch should be enough I hope Wink


(This post was edited by poohbeer on May 24, 2003, 5:45 AM)


Michele  (B 26874)

May 24, 2003, 6:16 AM
Post #12 of 31 (1711 views)
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Re: [skybytch] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Skydive as if you had no RSL and no AAD. Pull your handles. Don't rely on anything but you to save your ass.
I have an RSL, and a Cypres. I turn on the Cypres before I jump, and then forget about it. I ignore the RSL unless I know there are weird winds on the ground (but then, why am I jumping in weird winds), and only think about it at that point.

Having had an RSL on student gear, and then none on rental gear, and then switching DZs and getting one on rental gear, and now having an RSL on my own stuff, it's simply another safety measure which is designed to back me up...not me back it up.

Good question, and keep asking them. The more information you get, the better prepared you can be.

Ciels-
Michele


fudd  (C License)

May 25, 2003, 6:34 PM
Post #13 of 31 (1637 views)
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Re: [poohbeer] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... but no peeling needed since you've got force from both arms.. witch should be enough I hope Wink
You should peel even with both hands on one handle. The handles sits in a little pocket, so if you're not peeling/twisting first and pulling down the handle can be stuck at the bottom preventing you from pulling it.


poohbeer  (Student)

May 26, 2003, 2:14 AM
Post #14 of 31 (1589 views)
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Re: [fudd] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
... but no peeling needed since you've got force from both arms.. witch should be enough I hope Wink
You should peel even with both hands on one handle. The handles sits in a little pocket, so if you're not peeling/twisting first and pulling down the handle can be stuck at the bottom preventing you from pulling it.

Get stuck? is't velcro'ed ontop of our suits.. don't see how it can get stuck anywhere.
And since my instructor didn't mention this peel thingie while discussien emergency procedure I guess it is no problem for me.
When I finaly get to go for my first jump I will first double check this with the instructor ofcourse


fudd  (C License)

May 26, 2003, 3:55 AM
Post #15 of 31 (1576 views)
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Re: [poohbeer] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

The cutaway pillow and the reserve handle is velcroed in a little pocket on the harness. It's hard to pull unless you get the bottom edge out of that little pocket first.
A bit hard to explain, but you probably understand what I mean if you take a look at a rigg.
Do whatever your instructors tell you.
Before your first jump you should hopefully have done enough emergency drills so that the whole procedure sits in muscle memory.


MuffDiver  (B 5296)

May 26, 2003, 11:52 AM
Post #16 of 31 (1529 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

This weekend, I unpacked my gear and did a gear check turning my Cypress on and checking all the usual stuff, I did check my RSL and it was hooked up. I was called for my load so I geared up and did a visual inspection and my handles check, before getting on the plane I asked a more experienced jumper to give me a gear check. He noticed that my RSL was not hooked up, I don't know when or how it became disconnected but it did happen and if I had to wait for that RSL to pull my reserve I would have been waiting way too long and hopefully my cypress would have gotten angry and fired(but it is also just a back-up). I always practice pulling both handles because you just never know.


Premier Remster  (C License)

May 26, 2003, 12:34 PM
Post #17 of 31 (1524 views)
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Re: [MuffDiver] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I always practice pulling both handles because you just never know.

Dont get this the wrong way Im not giving you a hard time, but when I read something like this, it makes my skin crawl, and heres why

You shouldnt pull both handles because you just never know, you should pull them because THATS what you have to do in that situation. Having a just never know attitude is not the worse one to have, but its not a good one either: it still implies your reliance on the RSL. Maybe its not what you meant when you type your post, but thats the way it came across to me.


MuffDiver  (B 5296)

May 26, 2003, 3:24 PM
Post #18 of 31 (1502 views)
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Re: [Remster] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

After reading my post again I can see how you misunderstood what I meant to get across. I didn't mean to say that I practice pulling both handles because you just never know if your rsl will work, it should have come out something like this...

I practice pulling both handles because that is the sequence that I want to initiate if (when) I have the need to cutaway and deploy my reserve.

I guess the 'never know' comment was more about
never knowing when your going to be in a situation that requires a cutaway.


jeremyneas  (D 20133)

May 26, 2003, 5:16 PM
Post #19 of 31 (1486 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually there are a couple of situations where you may want to rely on your RSL.

1) You can't find your reserve ripcord (for whatever reason) during a partial malfunction.

2) You can't find your reserve ripcord during a total malfunction.

Jeremy Neas


HeatherB  (B License)

May 26, 2003, 5:58 PM
Post #20 of 31 (1476 views)
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Re: [poohbeer] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Get stuck? is't velcro'ed ontop of our suits.. don't see how it can get stuck anywhere.


Some rigs have a kind of pocket built into the main lift web and it surrounds the velcro section of the cutaway handle (front and back), but some rigs do not have a pocket. Maybe that's where your confusion is?


andy2

May 26, 2003, 5:58 PM
Post #21 of 31 (1474 views)
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Re: [jeremyneas] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
2) You can't find your reserve ripcord during a total malfunction

Don't mind my ignorance, but if it was a total malfunction cutting away wouldn't trigger the reserve. How I understand it is the main has to actually detach from the container and pull out the reserve lanyard. Isn't this correct?


murrays  (C 1285)

May 26, 2003, 11:38 PM
Post #22 of 31 (1444 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
2) You can't find your reserve ripcord during a total malfunction

Don't mind my ignorance, but if it was a total malfunction cutting away wouldn't trigger the reserve. How I understand it is the main has to actually detach from the container and pull out the reserve lanyard. Isn't this correct?

Yes, you're correct.

You should always pull both handles...you never know if the RSL has gotten disconnected.


rigging65  (D 21921)

May 27, 2003, 2:42 PM
Post #23 of 31 (1392 views)
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Re: [andy2] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2) You can't find your reserve ripcord during a total malfunction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don't mind my ignorance, but if it was a total malfunction cutting away wouldn't trigger the reserve. How I understand it is the main has to actually detach from the container and pull out the reserve lanyard. Isn't this correct?

---------------------
Andy

That's true, but you could reach up with your hand and manually deploy the reserve using the RSL as it's own handle (in the event you simply "couldn't" find the res. ripcord).

This is the "6th" handle on Tandem systems, and there is no reason why you couldn't use it on a sport rig. In fact, many RSL systems are set up such that the shackle is on the right riser, so that if you can't use/get to your left side to pull the reserve, you could get to your right side RSL shackle and still put the reserve out.

You think someone might have thought this whole RSL thing out, eh? Wink


bmcd308  (D 27472)

May 27, 2003, 2:46 PM
Post #24 of 31 (1390 views)
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Re: [jeremyneas] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

>>2) You can't find your reserve ripcord during a total malfunction. <<

A total means that the main container is still closed. Your RSL won't do sh!t for you here. All an RSL does is pull on the cable as your risers leave. In a total, your RSL will be flapping in the breeze just like it does in freefall.

In this situation, you will actually need to rely on your ability to find the fvcking handle. Find it. Pull it.

Don't hurry too much, though; you'll have the rest of your life (minus six to eight seconds) to pull it. Tongue

BMcD...


bmcd308  (D 27472)

May 27, 2003, 2:49 PM
Post #25 of 31 (1387 views)
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Re: [rigging65] RSL question [In reply to] Can't Post

>>That's true, but you could reach up with your hand and manually deploy the reserve using the RSL as it's own handle (in the event you simply "couldn't" find the res. ripcord). <<

I had not thought about that, and it's a great thing to have in the bak of your mind if you ever need it.

Brent


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