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Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers

 


vincearnone  (D 30389)

Apr 25, 2018, 8:35 AM
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Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers Can't Post

I've taken the time to put together a complete write-up on tunnel gear that I thought the flyers here might find valuable.

I've taken my years of experience in the wind as a flyer and coach and distilled it down to product recommendations based on principles that encourage flyers to choose the right gear for the job which will speed a progression and prevent gear issues from creating bad habits.

The guide can be found here:

https://www.indoorskydivingsource.com/...kydiving-gear-guide/

I hope you all find this valuable and I am happy to respond to questions here or in the comments on the article.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Apr 25, 2018, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Save your Darth Vader look for Halloween
LaughLaughLaugh


FrancoR

Apr 25, 2018, 2:23 PM
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I would disagree that you cannot go wrong with the G3. It is a helmt from 2011 as you say but it is just plastic, there are a lot of full face carbon fiber helmets offfering better protection. Still a good helmet, but there is a reason fiber helmets are the material of choice for motorcycles if you want something really good that lasts.


danornan  (D 11308)

Apr 25, 2018, 3:48 PM
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Re: [FrancoR] Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

FrancoR wrote:
I would disagree that you cannot go wrong with the G3. It is a helmt from 2011 as you say but it is just plastic, there are a lot of full face carbon fiber helmets offfering better protection. Still a good helmet, but there is a reason fiber helmets are the material of choice for motorcycles if you want something really good that lasts.

I don't think it makes a difference whether the helmet is plastic or carbon fiber. Carbon fiber does look good... My motorcycle helmet, Schuberth, is one of the best, if not the best, and it is plastic and not carbon fiber. Motorcycle helmets are tested and must pass to be certified. I don't think that any skydiving helmets get tested.


vincearnone  (D 30389)

Apr 25, 2018, 5:18 PM
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Re: [danornan] Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

danornan wrote:
FrancoR wrote:
I would disagree that you cannot go wrong with the G3. It is a helmt from 2011 as you say but it is just plastic, there are a lot of full face carbon fiber helmets offfering better protection. Still a good helmet, but there is a reason fiber helmets are the material of choice for motorcycles if you want something really good that lasts.

I don't think it makes a difference whether the helmet is plastic or carbon fiber. Carbon fiber does look good... My motorcycle helmet, Schuberth, is one of the best, if not the best, and it is plastic and not carbon fiber. Motorcycle helmets are tested and must pass to be certified. I don't think that any skydiving helmets get tested.

I'd have to agree with Danornan here. I have both a carbon G2 and have had many plastic G3's and both worked great with little difference between the two other than the look. Agreed that skydiving and tunnel flying helmets aren't designed or tested for impact. Not that they shouldn't be, but most aren't.

I fully realize are a range of options out there as good or better than the G3, and others that are worse. I've updated the article to reflect that. Specifically I added Skyhelmets as an option. I do believe it is a superior product to the G3 when it comes to flying in the tunnel, the issue is that it's not readily available. You have to do some digging to get your hands on one - not ideal for a beginner.

With that being said, I believe the G3 is the closest to a universal recommendation. It's a solid helmet with most of the necessary features needed for indoor flying. As a product, it provides good value for your money.

The article is aimed at helping everyone, including a complete beginner. The goal was to make a recommendation that has a darn good chance of being a helmet they will like, use, and have for a long time. I think of any option, the G3 fit's that bill the best.


(This post was edited by vincearnone on Apr 25, 2018, 5:19 PM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Apr 25, 2018, 10:57 PM
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FrancoR wrote:
I would disagree that you cannot go wrong with the G3.
Ditto! Not the best helmet at all


FrancoR

Apr 26, 2018, 1:08 PM
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Actualy the carbon fiber shell of the skyhelmets is the reason why i bought the Skyhelmets Fujin, but you are right last i heard the lead time is still 8 months.


wan2doit

Apr 26, 2018, 9:00 PM
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The Best - need to be able to supply the Best or it is nearly impossible to stay the Best if clients that can't wait 8 months must shop elsewhere.


BigBUG  (D License)

Apr 30, 2018, 4:00 AM
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danornan wrote:

I don't think it makes a difference whether the helmet is plastic or carbon fiber. Carbon fiber does look good... My motorcycle helmet, Schuberth, is one of the best, if not the best, and it is plastic and not carbon fiber. Motorcycle helmets are tested and must pass to be certified. I don't think that any skydiving helmets get tested.

believe me, there is a very strong difference when you getting a kick in the head in a 4 way dynamic, when ramming into you at full speed. I am so thankful for having Skyhelmet, it saved me from concussion at least 2 times for 2 years.
Also, visor system in G3 is awful. It starts to vibrate over time (that impaires your vision), it goes off the adjustements and just generally shitty. Price for G3 made of garbage plastic ($1 in production cost) is ridiculous as well.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Apr 30, 2018, 12:03 PM
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Re: [danornan] Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

The material differences are absolutely a factor that should be considered. G2 was CF and had D3O which meant that the reduced flex from the CF could be absorbed by the padding. The G3 being plastic/polywhatever flexes a lot more and, will break long before CF, if this isn't factored into the design of the padding in either case, you then will have a higher risk of injury.

A protective device is meant to attenuate impact forces, you can go either way - CF or something else - but, in either case, unless you're testing the combination of materials, you really can't say anything about whether it's better or not.

The reality is, if you push on a G3 from the sides, there's a lot of flex in there that you won't find in G2 or a Skyhelmets Fujin. On what basis would Cookie be able to verify that it was doing its job in the absence of some agreed upon standard? IDK either.

For me, the G3 is the wrong shape for my head whereas the G2 fit me super well so, I don't own any G3s.

I'd also disagree with you comments on motorcycle helmets. There are standards so, some companies go for CF because it's lighter but, when you look at studies that have been done comparing ECE helmets to SNELL, you'll see that for most people the ability for a helmet to withstand multiple impacts at very high speeds (like you would in race) isn't as useful as sliding down a road with lower over all force spikes but potentially more impacts. I'm not sure these studies have been updated to reflect SNELL2015 though, so maybe SNELL updated their tests.


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Apr 30, 2018, 12:04 PM)


wan2doit

Apr 30, 2018, 4:35 PM
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Would be nice for helmet producers to possibly incorporate G-Form knee pad shock absorbing material into the products they produce to protect our heads.

My elbow knows for a FACT G-Form's material works.

When you hear the impact of your elbow against the tunnel glass/lexan loud and clear (like a baseball bat hitting a home run) over all other sounds in a running tunnel you're flying in with a G3 on w/earplugs in and feel no pain then or after - bottom line WooHoo for G-Form's super hi-tec impact absorbing material.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

May 1, 2018, 5:58 PM
Post #12 of 17 (939 views)
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Re: [vincearnone] Gear Suggestions for Tunnel Flyers [In reply to] Can't Post

I like my G3 for tunnel use because it was issued to me for free at my last job, but I can promise you with 100% certainty that the G2 (carbon fiber) was/is a superior helmet. The G3 is better than the "standard" ProTec tunnel option, but it's far from the best thing you can put on your head; PARTICULARLY when you are working toward your "pro flyer" competence. Also: I didn't read your article at all, but if you didn't recommend low-profile knee and elbow pads for people doing FF/dynamic in the tunnel then you are doing it wrong.


vincearnone  (D 30389)

May 15, 2018, 11:58 AM
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SkymonkeyONE wrote:
Also: I didn't read your article at all, but if you didn't recommend low-profile knee and elbow pads for people doing FF/dynamic in the tunnel then you are doing it wrong.

100% I did, but not just for FF/dynamic, but all the time. I also take it further to say that you should be wearing knee pads when you're skydiving for kneeling in the plane and packing.

Personally my g-forms go on when the jumpsuit goes on without exception.


wan2doit

May 15, 2018, 3:32 PM
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G-Form pads rock for sure.

Spoke to a person at a tunnel last night who was learning back layouts that can fram your knees into the wall.

I asked if they wore knee and elbow pads. Ans. was NO they won't fit under the tight custom fit flightsuit.

Felt bad that I didn't think to advise wearing them outside - will correct that on a pm.


(This post was edited by wan2doit on May 15, 2018, 3:34 PM)


dolphinka

May 16, 2018, 2:44 AM
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wan2doit wrote:
G-Form pads rock for sure.

Spoke to a person at a tunnel last night who was learning back layouts that can fram your knees into the wall.

I asked if they wore knee and elbow pads. Ans. was NO they won't fit under the tight custom fit flightsuit.

Felt bad that I didn't think to advise wearing them outside - will correct that on a pm.

wan2doit, I am in the process of buying my own gear for indoor flying, if I'll wear g-form elbow pads on top of the suit won't it come off?

Also I can customise the suit so the pads fit under, but I have a white arms and material is a see through, so black pads will be visible. I was thinking of pads like this in white, does anyone know if they will protect my elbows?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elastic-Elbow-Support-Breathable-Anti-collision/dp/B015O4KA6U/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1526463804&sr=8-5&keywords=soft+elbow+pads+white

I definitely need it, did first 20 mins back flying last week and hit my elbow couple of times, it still hurts:(


wan2doit

May 16, 2018, 8:53 AM
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Sounds like a decision needs to be made whether to look good or be pain free. Seems like black outside on white sleeves might look OK. Taping them which I need to do to secure them might be iffie for looks but IMHO it is worth it to keep them in right position. After some use or due to wild movements in the tunnel the elastic loosens or moves a little (at least on me) and I believe it is important to keep the pad exactly centered on the joint to realize full benefit of the pads.

Attached video shows yellow g-forms in use on first competitor at around 3-55 into video https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be Apparently the young man in this vid is serious about keeping pads where they need to be - or WHY use them.

Be as accurate as possible when measuring your body dimensions for g-form sizing - maybe have a helper - if dimensions fall in the middle between 2 sizes - go to the smaller g-form size -

They also make compression shorts with hip and tailbone pads on them.

Also be aware they have some high discount sales that are worth the wait IMO up to 40%.

From my experience these pads will very effectively protect whatever they are covering. No experience with the pads at the link you provided but they look to be a lot bulkier than the g-forms. Also understand g-forms look very thin but the material in the pads is extremely hi-tech and do work for Sure - no guessing with g-form IMHO. Most including me wait until a bad hit to buy them. My 1st hit to cost me 2 months of tunnel flying was on my tailbone - very painful for a month then one more to get comfortable again. I was told I was lucky by a pro flyer. Many instructors I know wear them but waited too lomg like me to get them HaHa one in fact had elbow bone fragments floating around inside his arm before getting the g-forms.

There's an old saying from where I'm at that says - "if one is going to be dumb they need to be tough". I know about that from my tailbone hit.

Last advise - get pads before you get hurt badly - no need for long term pain elbows, knees, tailbones are vulnerable especially in the beginning of one's learning curve on a new skill.

Good Luck in this amazing sport.


dolphinka

May 18, 2018, 1:28 AM
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wan2doit wrote:
My 1st hit to cost me 2 months of tunnel flying was on my tailbone - very painful for a month then one more to get comfortable again. I was told I was lucky by a pro flyer.

Wow! thank you so much wan2doit for such a detailed response, this is what I was looking for. I will definitely go for it now, my elbow still hurts and it prevents me to do certain yoga poses (annoying).....

May I ask, how did you hit your tailbone? I would've never imagined that in this sport you can hit a tailbone?! I know how much pain it is, I am an advised skier who decided to learn snowboarding last year and within my first 10 mins on the slope I landed on my tailbone. Hit it pretty hard while wearing super tough armour shorts Dainese.... so I get that you can do it with snowboarding, but how can you impact it with flying? (confused)...

Thank you!


(This post was edited by dolphinka on May 18, 2018, 1:29 AM)



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