Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance?

 


MAD1210

Apr 17, 2018, 7:05 AM
Post #1 of 18 (2672 views)
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USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? Can't Post

I have a question about jumping in Europe... Everywhere I look it says that insurance is required... Does anyone have information as far as how to get that insurance or exactly what they're talking about? Thanks.


shorehambeach  (C License)

Apr 17, 2018, 8:14 AM
Post #2 of 18 (2589 views)
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Re: [MAD1210] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where are you planning to jump ?

Some European DZ are USPA affiliated.

When I jump in France I temporarily join the FPA (French Para Assoc) which gives me the required 3rd party insurance.


Deimian

Apr 18, 2018, 2:44 AM
Post #3 of 18 (2390 views)
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Re: [MAD1210] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's normally 3rd party insurance. Everyone has health insurance in Europe, so that is ignored. But I guess it can depend on where in Europe. Do you have any particular destination?


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 18, 2018, 10:09 AM
Post #4 of 18 (2265 views)
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Re: [Deimian] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

Deimian wrote:
It's normally 3rd party insurance. Everyone has health insurance in Europe, so that is ignored. But I guess it can depend on where in Europe. Do you have any particular destination?

Speaking of health insurance, I recommend any American jumping in Europe buy a special travel policy that covers extreme sports. Americans are not covered under the government sponsored healthcare system there and can be denied treatment without proof of 100% coverage.

AIG offers a policy called "Travel Guard Plus" that covers pretty much all high-risk activities. This is the policy the US Parachute Team purchases for competitions in Europe. You will not see it on the Travel Guard website. You have to call and get a quote.

BTW, it also covers routine travel stuff like trip interruption, lost luggage, etc.


pms07  (D 7571)

Apr 18, 2018, 11:43 AM
Post #5 of 18 (2225 views)
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Re: [MAD1210] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped in the UK, Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain and Belgium. I've never had an issue with USPA or had to buy additional insurance.


benlangfeld

Apr 18, 2018, 4:38 PM
Post #6 of 18 (2142 views)
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Re: [pms07] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

By that do you mean youíve never been forced to in order to jump, or youíve never been unfortunate enough to need to use insurance?

Were you not required to pay for temporary BPA etc membership to jump there? Most of those countries say thatís a requirement, just like in the US. Is that just not enforced?


EvilGenius  (D License)

Apr 19, 2018, 12:37 AM
Post #7 of 18 (2058 views)
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Re: [pms07] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been told that's it's the USPA 3rd party insurance is only valid in Europe (outside US?) if you're a US citizen or Green Card holder.


Pobrause

Apr 19, 2018, 3:22 AM
Post #8 of 18 (2020 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
Americans are not covered under the government sponsored healthcare system there and can be denied treatment without proof of 100% coverage.

Not exactly true. No necessary and/ or life preserving treatment is going to be denied, ever. If youíre not insured you will receive a bill, same as in the US.


SethInMI  (A 47765)

Apr 19, 2018, 5:10 AM
Post #9 of 18 (1966 views)
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Re: [benlangfeld] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

benlangfeld wrote:
By that do you mean youíve never been forced to in order to jump, or youíve never been unfortunate enough to need to use insurance?

Were you not required to pay for temporary BPA etc membership to jump there? Most of those countries say thatís a requirement, just like in the US. Is that just not enforced?

The few times I've jumped in Belgium I did not need to buy additional 3rd party insurance or a membership. Apparently the 3rd party coverage with USPA membership was enough. YMMV.


IJskonijn  (B License)

Apr 19, 2018, 7:54 AM
Post #10 of 18 (1913 views)
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Re: [benlangfeld] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

benlangfeld wrote:
Were you not required to pay for temporary BPA etc membership to jump there? Most of those countries say thatís a requirement, just like in the US. Is that just not enforced?

When I was in the UK to jump (although on my Dutch license, I don't have a USPA license), it was enough to provide proof of 3rd-party liability insurance by the Dutch KNVvL association. Without that, I would have had to buy BPA membership or some such thing to have enough 3rd party insurance. So I think for most countries, it is not so much that you are required to buy membership, but that you are required to have 3rd party liability coverage. If you cannot prove that you have, then buying a membership is a good way to have that coverage.


pms07  (D 7571)

Apr 19, 2018, 9:59 AM
Post #11 of 18 (1848 views)
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Re: [benlangfeld] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

Never had a BPA temp membership, never had to pay for anything extra related to insurance, was allowed to jump with USPA. I can't speak what is required versus what is enforced in any country. It has been a couple of years since I've been in Europe however, maybe things have changed in some locations.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 19, 2018, 7:25 PM
Post #12 of 18 (1745 views)
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Re: [EvilGenius] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

EvilGenius wrote:
I've been told that's it's the USPA 3rd party insurance is only valid in Europe (outside US?) if you're a US citizen or Green Card holder.

From uspa.org...

"USPA members receive third-party liability insurance to include bodily injury and property damage while skydiving at a sanctioned drop zone."


USPA offers membership without regard to citizenship, and that membership includes benefits without regard to citizenship.


EvilGenius  (D License)

Apr 20, 2018, 12:44 AM
Post #13 of 18 (1694 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems the DZ's disagree, from Skydive Spain ' webpage http://www.skydivespain.com/about/insurance/

"USPA AND BPA MEMBERS
Please remember that unless you are a US resident for USPA or UK resident for BPA, then the Third Party Liability does not cover you when you are not jumping in the US & Canada and the United Kingdom, respectively. Therefore you must purchase additional insurance when you visit us in Spain."


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 20, 2018, 4:32 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1641 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
"USPA members receive third-party liability insurance to include bodily injury and property damage while skydiving at a sanctioned drop zone."

What was the definition of that again? A DZ sactioned through a sporting body associated with the FAI, right? That's what I recall.

So a CSPA or USPA or BPA or similar DZ around the world would be OK, but not an independent one. A DZ like that might not care whether you have insurance, if one is OK with taking the risk.

(The same sort of clause is in the Canadian CSPA $3M Cdn 3rd party liability insurance -- Go to Lodi, and you're not covered.)


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
Apr 23, 2018, 8:09 AM
Post #15 of 18 (1485 views)
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Re: [pms07] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

pms07 wrote:
Never had a BPA temp membership, never had to pay for anything extra related to insurance, was allowed to jump with USPA. I can't speak what is required versus what is enforced in any country. It has been a couple of years since I've been in Europe however, maybe things have changed in some locations.

I'd be interested to know which BPA dropzone you jumped at and when. Section 12 of the BPA's Operation Manual states,

Quote:
1. PERSONAL DOCUMENTS

1.1. All parachutists, riggers, packers, judges and DZ controllers must be current members of the British Parachute Association. Except in the case of other European Union (EU) parachutists, who are current members of their own countryís parachuting governing organisation, have proof that they are not classified as student parachutists, have a minimum of 100 descents and hold current third party liability insurance to cover of a minimum of 1,500,000 Euro.


jurgencamps  (D License)

May 2, 2018, 4:05 AM
Post #16 of 18 (1228 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
EvilGenius wrote:
I've been told that's it's the USPA 3rd party insurance is only valid in Europe (outside US?) if you're a US citizen or Green Card holder.

From uspa.org...

"USPA members receive third-party liability insurance to include bodily injury and property damage while skydiving at a sanctioned drop zone."


USPA offers membership without regard to citizenship, and that membership includes benefits without regard to citizenship.

Hay Chuckakers,
Do you have your USPA membership card at hand? Please turn it arround and have a look at the backside.

https://uspa.org/...iabilityOverview.pdf

Quote:
TERRITORY
The insurance coverage is applicable (1) within the USA, its territories or possessions; (2)
worldwide with respect to damage arising out of any activities of any insured member
permanently living in the USA, its territories possessions or Canada
who is temporarily
outside the USA, its territories and possessions, or Canada, provided that the original suit
for damages is brought in the USA or Canada; (3) for foreign members of USPA when
skydiving in events in the USA or Canada
if the claim is brought in the USA or Canada

Foreigners are only insured in the USA (its territories or possessions) or Canada.

For ex. a Belgian skydiver (non-green card resident) jumping in Europe at USPA group affiliated DZ is NOT insured.


(This post was edited by jurgencamps on May 2, 2018, 5:58 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

May 2, 2018, 8:35 AM
Post #17 of 18 (1165 views)
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Re: [jurgencamps] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

jurgencamps wrote:
chuckakers wrote:
EvilGenius wrote:
I've been told that's it's the USPA 3rd party insurance is only valid in Europe (outside US?) if you're a US citizen or Green Card holder.

From uspa.org...

"USPA members receive third-party liability insurance to include bodily injury and property damage while skydiving at a sanctioned drop zone."


USPA offers membership without regard to citizenship, and that membership includes benefits without regard to citizenship.

Hay Chuckakers,
Do you have your USPA membership card at hand? Please turn it arround and have a look at the backside.

https://uspa.org/...iabilityOverview.pdf

Quote:
TERRITORY
The insurance coverage is applicable (1) within the USA, its territories or possessions; (2)
worldwide with respect to damage arising out of any activities of any insured member
permanently living in the USA, its territories possessions or Canada
who is temporarily
outside the USA, its territories and possessions, or Canada, provided that the original suit
for damages is brought in the USA or Canada; (3) for foreign members of USPA when
skydiving in events in the USA or Canada
if the claim is brought in the USA or Canada

Foreigners are only insured in the USA (its territories or possessions) or Canada.

For ex. a Belgian skydiver (non-green card resident) jumping in Europe at USPA group affiliated DZ is NOT insured.

Ah, I see. Learn something new every day!


jurgencamps  (D License)

May 2, 2018, 10:58 AM
Post #18 of 18 (1102 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] USPa jumpers in Europe - 3rd party insurance? [In reply to] Can't Post

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