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Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL?

 


20_kN  (B License)

Jan 8, 2018, 3:45 PM
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Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? Can't Post

Forgive me as I am still new (post AFF, pre A license), but I have a question regarding the SIM. The USPA SIM states that when jettisoning the main after a side-by-side or downplane two-out malfunction, you should first disconnect the RSL. But why? If you have the reserve out, the closing pin has already been removed so what does disconnecting the RSL accomplish? I asked some of the instructors and none of them could think of a reason to disconnect the RSL if the reserve is already deployed. Here are some notes from the SIM:

Page 111,

2. An RSL is recommended for all experienced jumpers.

a. The RSL backs up the jumper by extracting the
reserve ripcord pin after a cutaway.
b. the RSL
(1) must be routed and attached correctly
to function
(2) when misrouted, can complicate or prevent
a cutaway

c. RSLs can complicate certain emergency procedures:

(1) cutaway following a dual deployment

(2) cutting away from an entanglement after
a collision
(3) unstable cutaway, although statistics show
that chances are better from an unstable
reserve deployment than delaying after
a cutaway
(4) unstable cutaway with a helmet camera or
other protruding device
(5) cutaway with a surfboard (although an RSL
may have prevented two fatal skysurfing
accidents)
(6) cutaway on the ground in high winds.

The SIM also says, page 105:

4. Stable side-by-side (choose one procedure):

Side-by-side procedure 1:
If both canopies are flying without interference or
possibility of entanglement and altitude permits:
(1) Disconnect the RSL.
(2) Cut away the main and steer the reserve to
a normal landing.

Side-by-side procedure 2:

Land both canopies.
(1) Release the brakes of the dominant canopy
(larger and more overhead) and steer gently
with the toggles, or leave the brakes stowed
and steer by pulling on the rear risers.
(2) Land without flaring and perform a
parachute landing fall.

5. Downplane or pinwheel (canopies spinning around
each other)
a. Disconnect the reserve static line if altitude
permits.

b. Cut away the main canopy and steer the reserve
to a normal landing.
6. Main-reserve entanglement
a. Attempt to clear the problem by retrieving the
less-inflated canopy.
b. Perform a parachute landing fall.

https://uspa.org/SIM


20_kN  (B License)

Jan 8, 2018, 5:05 PM
Post #2 of 20 (4389 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Also found this: http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf

"Cutting away from a side-by-side that does not want to return to a biplane seems to be a safe action as long as no equipment problems exist, and the canopies are not entangled. It must be noted that RSL's were not used in any of these tests.

Great caution must be used when cutting away in that scenario due to the varied styles and applications of RSL's."


"conclusion:
If a side-by-side is present and the jumper has directional control, fly the side-by-side using smooth, gentle toggle input of the larger/dominant canopy. If the canopies do not seem controllable, and are not entangled with each other, disconnect any RSL, if time/altitude permits, and cut away the main canopy."


It's still not clear what the RSL has to do with anything when cutting away the main after the reserve has deployed though. Frown


(This post was edited by 20_kN on Jan 8, 2018, 5:09 PM)


kpitchford  (D License)

Jan 8, 2018, 5:15 PM
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Re: [20_kN] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

As you're probably already aware, the RSL is a 12"-18" lanyard that's connected to the main riser, whose function is to pull the reserve pin in the event of a cutaway.

In a dual out situation, since the reserve has already been activated, the RSL is no longer providing any safety advantage. In fact, it's now become a liability.
Here's why:
When you have two out, you should be prepared to cutaway at any time. Especially if it develops into a downplane.
If you fail to disconnect the RSL prior to cutting away, that 12+" RSL lanyard is just one more thing that can whip around and entangle with the reserve and prevent you from cleanly separating from your main.
TIME & ALTITUDE PERMITTING, disconnect the RSL in dual out situations to limit the chances of this happening.

Here's a video that shows a near entanglement with the RSL. Pay close attention to :16-:20. Fortunately the guy was able to free the RSL and it didn't get tangled up in the suspension lines or slider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPGfK0N5XwE

Good luck with your training and keep asking questions!


(This post was edited by kpitchford on Jan 8, 2018, 5:29 PM)


20_kN  (B License)

Jan 8, 2018, 7:15 PM
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Re: [kpitchford] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

kpitchford wrote:
As you're probably already aware, the RSL is a 12"-18" lanyard that's connected to the main riser, whose function is to pull the reserve pin in the event of a cutaway.

In a dual out situation, since the reserve has already been activated, the RSL is no longer providing any safety advantage. In fact, it's now become a liability.
Here's why:
When you have two out, you should be prepared to cutaway at any time. Especially if it develops into a downplane.
If you fail to disconnect the RSL prior to cutting away, that 12+" RSL lanyard is just one more thing that can whip around and entangle with the reserve and prevent you from cleanly separating from your main.
TIME & ALTITUDE PERMITTING, disconnect the RSL in dual out situations to limit the chances of this happening.

Here's a video that shows a near entanglement with the RSL. Pay close attention to :16-:20. Fortunately the guy was able to free the RSL and it didn't get tangled up in the suspension lines or slider.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPGfK0N5XwE

Good luck with your training and keep asking questions!

Thanks for the video, it's was interesting. I am curious why the RSL did not extract the reserve. The video said pilot chute in tow, but right as he was cutting away you can clearly see the main is out of the bag and in the air. Or maybe it did extract the reserve and then it got hung up on something? Either way, good info, thanks.


(This post was edited by 20_kN on Jan 8, 2018, 8:34 PM)


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Jan 9, 2018, 2:25 AM
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Re: [20_kN] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

For stable two-out configurations, I guess there is no harm in disconnecting the RSL.

But in the event of a downplane I teach students to cut away immediately and at any altitude.
1) Your altitude is decreasing rapidly in a downplane.
2) I "expect" most two-outs to occur at cypres-altitude
3) I do not want a studentrunning out of altitude while trying to decide whether they have enough altitude to disconnect their RSL or not.
4) I am not convinced that students will reliably be able to locate the RSL release easily and quickly.
5) Flame on.


IJskonijn  (B License)

Jan 9, 2018, 3:29 AM
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Re: [Baksteen] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

A two-out can also realistically occur at normal pull time, if the reserve pin is almost out of the loop and the shock of the main opening takes care of the last little bit. I'll agree that will be a pincheck fail, but two-outs don't happen because everything went perfectly fine.

Still, I agree that a two-out downplane burns through your altitude like crazy, so there's not much time to make decisions.


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Jan 9, 2018, 5:53 AM
Post #7 of 20 (3960 views)
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Re: [IJskonijn] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you Captain Obvious; that's why I didn't write "any and all two outs". TongueSlyLaugh

Several years ago I have seen one or two occur directly after exit. It turned out to be a combination of the student jumping up against the door of the C182 and poor door handle design and an old rig. The rig was retired, the door handle improved and the student didn't quit jumping. Not immediately, at any rate.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 9, 2018, 8:20 AM
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Re: [20_kN] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would also add that there is one type of RSL (the two sided Racer) that MUST be disconnected before a cutaway with two canopies out; there is a high likelihood that the RSL will collapse the reserve (and keep it collapsed) as the main departs. Fortunately those are rare nowadays.


(This post was edited by billvon on Jan 9, 2018, 8:21 AM)


grantunderland  (D License)

Jan 9, 2018, 9:46 AM
Post #9 of 20 (3764 views)
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Re: [IJskonijn] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

The first two out I ever saw happened at 2k when a new reserve packjob had the closing loop break on deployment. I recall there being under 10 jumps (and maybe 1 week) on the packjob.

I have also been at the DZ when someone broke their back after their RSL became entangled with the reserve lines when chopping a low downplane. He was smart to chop first as there was no altitude to disconnect the RSL.


jclalor  (B 33202)

Jan 9, 2018, 5:57 PM
Post #10 of 20 (3535 views)
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Re: [kpitchford] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPGfK0N5XwE


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 16, 2018, 8:12 AM
Post #11 of 20 (2912 views)
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Re: [Baksteen] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Baksteen wrote:
For stable two-out configurations, I guess there is no harm in disconnecting the RSL.

But in the event of a downplane I teach students to cut away immediately and at any altitude.
1) Your altitude is decreasing rapidly in a downplane.
2) I "expect" most two-outs to occur at cypres-altitude
3) I do not want a studentrunning out of altitude while trying to decide whether they have enough altitude to disconnect their RSL or not.
4) I am not convinced that students will reliably be able to locate the RSL release easily and quickly.
5) Flame on.
I agree with all your points above. We all know, though, that one system on the market has a dual RSL system that will choke the reserve if you cut away in a 2-out situation. I'm not a big fan of that setup.


Unstable  (D 28930)

Jan 19, 2018, 10:55 AM
Post #12 of 20 (2531 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I agree with all your points above. We all know, though, that one system on the market has a dual RSL system that will choke the reserve if you cut away in a 2-out situation. I'm not a big fan of that setup.

That manufacturer has approved the installation of a single-sided RSL and new rigs are shipping with that as well as the Dual-sided if requested. Up to the jumper to make their own decision.


husslr187  (B 47237)

Jan 19, 2018, 8:46 PM
Post #13 of 20 (2365 views)
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Re: [20_kN] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Look up "wingsuit double malfunction" in YouTube duel sided rsl choked out reserve after a pilot chute in tow let loose after reserve deployment


skyderrill66  (D 21280)

Jan 20, 2018, 6:16 AM
Post #14 of 20 (2299 views)
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Re: [husslr187] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dvy7ywQK18&index=4&t=279s&list=FLJNizNJpQQSgqGmNg8sk1vg


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Jan 20, 2018, 6:30 AM
Post #15 of 20 (2292 views)
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Re: [skyderrill66] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Clicky that plays better https://youtu.be/5dvy7ywQK18


Croc  (D 29552)

Jan 20, 2018, 7:23 AM
Post #16 of 20 (2252 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Wings container with an RSL. If I have a pilot chute in tow I plan to cutaway and pull my reserve without disconnecting my RSL. Any potential problems with doing it that way?


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 20, 2018, 8:07 AM
Post #17 of 20 (2234 views)
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Re: [Croc] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Croc wrote:
I have a Wings container with an RSL. If I have a pilot chute in tow I plan to cutaway and pull my reserve without disconnecting my RSL. Any potential problems with doing it that way?
Only if you run out of time, I would say. I'm not a rigger, though. Anyone else have an opinion on this one?


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Jan 20, 2018, 8:37 AM
Post #18 of 20 (2213 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnMitchell wrote:
Croc wrote:
I have a Wings container with an RSL. If I have a pilot chute in tow I plan to cutaway and pull my reserve without disconnecting my RSL. Any potential problems with doing it that way?
Only if you run out of time, I would say. I'm not a rigger, though. Anyone else have an opinion on this one?

Depends on the cause of the PCIT. Sometimes after the reserve deployment the main container will open and the canopy will come out. Then there is a danger of the departing canopy interfering with the reserve and the RSL just makes the whole thing longer.

Many people would say that in a PCIT situation it is better to not cutaway. But that is a whole other discussion. I personally would not fuss with an RSL release while dealing with a high speed malfunction. They clearly are not designed for that.

This thread is actually about two outs, not PCITs.


(This post was edited by gowlerk on Jan 20, 2018, 8:44 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 20, 2018, 4:01 PM
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Re: [gowlerk] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
JohnMitchell wrote:
Croc wrote:
I have a Wings container with an RSL. If I have a pilot chute in tow I plan to cutaway and pull my reserve without disconnecting my RSL. Any potential problems with doing it that way?
Only if you run out of time, I would say. I'm not a rigger, though. Anyone else have an opinion on this one?

Depends on the cause of the PCIT. Sometimes after the reserve deployment the main container will open and the canopy will come out. Then there is a danger of the departing canopy interfering with the reserve and the RSL just makes the whole thing longer.

Many people would say that in a PCIT situation it is better to not cutaway. But that is a whole other discussion. I personally would not fuss with an RSL release while dealing with a high speed malfunction. They clearly are not designed for that.

This thread is actually about two outs, not PCITs.
I agree with what you say. He asked "any problem?" My reply was about running out of time.Wink

And I agree with you on the "2 ways to deal with PCIT", cutting away or not. Even the SIM recognizes both ways are valid arguments. Smile


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 20, 2018, 4:09 PM
Post #20 of 20 (2089 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Two-Out Malfunction: What's The Point In Disconnecting the RSL? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unstable wrote:
Quote:
I agree with all your points above. We all know, though, that one system on the market has a dual RSL system that will choke the reserve if you cut away in a 2-out situation. I'm not a big fan of that setup.

That manufacturer has approved the installation of a single-sided RSL and new rigs are shipping with that as well as the Dual-sided if requested. Up to the jumper to make their own decision.
That's good to hear. I've owned several of "those rigs" in the past, long before RSLs were standard, and always thought they were well designed and made. I just didn't like the dual RSL system. Smile



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