Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Any SAFE full-face helmets out there?

 

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IJskonijn  (B License)

Dec 8, 2017, 6:12 AM
Post #26 of 52 (5585 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

The economics of developing a crash-safe (defined by meeting applicable standards) helmets specifically for skydiving does not look good, indeed due to the small market.

Let's turn the problem around: What helmets are out there in the world, used for other sports than skydiving, that meet some standards for crash safety (like EN 966, EN 1077 or EN 1078) and are suitable for skydiving use?

I personally use a half-shell skate helmet that meets EN 1078. It is perfect for CRW, but not suited for freefall. The few times I took it to a longer delay than 2 seconds, it started rattling around on my head due to the high airspeed.

And the fact that not all jumpers use the safest equipment available is eternal. We cannot change that, we can only try to educate as many as possible on what the best safety options are, and councel them to use it.

Edit: A bit of google later, I've found something that's quite close to OP's initial request. http://www.icaro2000.com/.../SkyDive/SkyDive.htm. Anyone on these forums that have experience with this type of helmet? They say on the website it meets EN966.


(This post was edited by IJskonijn on Dec 8, 2017, 8:52 AM)


Jumpingeezer  (D 22544)

Dec 9, 2017, 9:59 AM
Post #27 of 52 (5448 views)
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Re: [IJskonijn] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's face facts people. The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device. That $300 helmet offers less head protection than a Pro-Tec that costs ten times less. Yes, it does offer a bit of protection to the chin in the event of a minor strike during a freefall collision but that is it!

If you think that it makes you look cool and that look is what you want to achieve then go for it.Smile As for myself....well.... I'm just too damned old to spend that kind of money for a fashion statement that won't fool anyone.Crazy


Bob_Church  (D 8195)
Fatalities Manager
Dec 9, 2017, 10:25 AM
Post #28 of 52 (5440 views)
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Re: [Jumpingeezer] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jumpingeezer wrote:
Let's face facts people. The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device. That $300 helmet offers less head protection than a Pro-Tec that costs ten times less. Yes, it does offer a bit of protection to the chin in the event of a minor strike during a freefall collision but that is it!

If you think that it makes you look cool and that look is what you want to achieve then go for it.Smile As for myself....well.... I'm just too damned old to spend that kind of money for a fashion statement that won't fool anyone.Crazy

I've always felt that not wearing a helmet has just made me more careful about where I put my face.


(This post was edited by Bob_Church on Dec 9, 2017, 12:56 PM)


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Dec 9, 2017, 4:45 PM
Post #29 of 52 (5406 views)
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Re: [Jumpingeezer] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device.

I think most people aren't making fashion statements. They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Dec 9, 2017, 5:48 PM
Post #30 of 52 (5389 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)

I'm also a wind-in-your-face guy, who prefers a $50 solution over a $400 solution any day.

Still, I finally did get a full face for some jumps, as it does help on sitfly or some other freefly jumps (to avoid goggles blowing off if not extra tight). Also handy for longer times getting airblasted in the tunnel. (I got sniffly for days from having too much air blown up my nose once in the tunnel.) And handy for real winter jumps. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

The rest of the time I use my beaten up ProTec!


CTSkydiver  (D 18461)

Dec 10, 2017, 2:25 AM
Post #31 of 52 (5358 views)
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Re: [IamAdam] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

I jumped a very similar ski helmet for a while after misplacing (ok, dropping from altitude) my previous skydiving helmet. It did the job just fine, and was likely the safest helmet I've ever worn jumping (with the exception that it wouldn't protect me from direct blows to the face or chin same as any other open-face design I've jumped). The ear covers even had pockets for audibles I have no idea why ... maybe they were for heating pads or headphone speakers or something.

I started in the early '90s and never wore helmets (kids my age never wore bike helmets or ski helmets growing up, either). I realize now that going helmetless even though I loved the sensation was then, and still is foolish. These days I won't ride a bike, skate, or ski without a helmet ... so it doesn't make much sense to skydive without one, either. I certainly would never ride a motorcycle without one. Have the sense to protect your common sense!

That said, it took my hair significantly thinning (sucks getting old) and watching videos of myself slowly going bald to get me to invest in an 'every-day' helmet one I'd wear when I wasn't strapping cameras to my head or teaching AFF students. Nowadays I wear a full-face. Not only does that style provide better all-over protection, but it also prevents me from getting facefuls of sinus blow-out from my tandem students, which is nice both from the 'ick' and the 'not getting sick and losing work opportunities' factors.

As a side-effect, your face flaps around a lot less. If you are 20 and everything is nice and tight, no problem. If you are significantly older, it may or may not be a vanity thing for you.

One funny thing though when I first started diving out and (attempt to go) no-lift in a full-face, I couldn't do it to save my life. I simply couldn't get stable and kept wiping-out; winding up looking back up at the plane. Something about not feeling the wind on my head and face (or maybe just different aerodynamics) screwed me up and I basically had to re-learn how to swoop. I don't know if anyone else ever encountered issues transitioning like that, but I'd be a bit surprised if I was the only one (but only a bit).


(This post was edited by CTSkydiver on Dec 10, 2017, 2:31 AM)
Attachments: Jumping in Ski Helmet.jpg (150 KB)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Dec 10, 2017, 10:43 AM
Post #32 of 52 (5306 views)
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Re: [Bob_Church] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bob_Church wrote:
Jumpingeezer wrote:
Let's face facts people. The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device. That $300 helmet offers less head protection than a Pro-Tec that costs ten times less. Yes, it does offer a bit of protection to the chin in the event of a minor strike during a freefall collision but that is it!

If you think that it makes you look cool and that look is what you want to achieve then go for it.Smile As for myself....well.... I'm just too damned old to spend that kind of money for a fashion statement that won't fool anyone.Crazy

I've always felt that not wearing a helmet has just made me more careful about where I put my face.

Maybe, but it doesn't make anyone else more careful about where they put their errors.


benlangfeld

Dec 10, 2017, 10:57 AM
Post #33 of 52 (5301 views)
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Re: [Jumpingeezer] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

My main motivation for an impending KISS purchase is that I'd like to be able to wear my glasses behind the visor to be able to see the wind sock from higher up. That and (eventually) a chin-mount for a camera make it seem worthwhile. The style factor is really neither here nor there for me, anything new and clean that fits perfectly would satisfy that.


(This post was edited by benlangfeld on Dec 10, 2017, 10:58 AM)


skyderrill66  (D 21280)

Dec 10, 2017, 3:43 PM
Post #34 of 52 (5268 views)
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Re: [benlangfeld] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

benlangfeld wrote:
My main motivation for an impending KISS purchase is that I'd like to be able to wear my glasses behind the visor to be able to see the wind sock from higher up. That and (eventually) a chin-mount for a camera make it seem worthwhile. The style factor is really neither here nor there for me, anything new and clean that fits perfectly would satisfy that.
32 jumps and already thinking about adding a camera. You need to learn to walk before you run. 32 jumps you need to learn to skydive safely first before adding a camera.


benlangfeld

Dec 10, 2017, 4:45 PM
Post #35 of 52 (5251 views)
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Re: [skyderrill66] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Dude, I said eventually. A helmet will last me at least 400 jumps. I have no intention of ignoring the SIM recommendations, no need to jump down my throat.


IJskonijn  (B License)

Dec 11, 2017, 4:43 AM
Post #36 of 52 (5145 views)
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Re: [skyderrill66] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Easy, there are other threads on this forum where you can go yell at people for wanting to jump with a camera. Or go to an actual dropzone. There's nothing wrong with taking future growth potential into account when searching for a helmet.

I don't think helmets are purely a fashion statement, although looking at some people (and the prices of helmets) that may seem to be the case. In the old days (at least, as the stories are told by people older and wiser than I am), helmets where a student thing, to be ditched as soon as was allowed. Luckily, nowadays they are much more common, in part due to mandatory helmet use for certain disciplines. Here in the Netherlands, a hard helmet is required for freefly jumps.

And even when helmets are just a plastic shell with some fabric liner, I agree that in any given situation having A helmet is much better than having NO helmet. On the other hand, having no helmet may make a person more careful, reducing their chance of getting into such a situation in the first place, so the net worth may not be beneficial.

The easiest solution would be to require helmets that conform to some safety standard. An easy pick would be EN966, which is the EU safety standard for paragliding, hang gliding and ultralight helmets. In the meantime, I'm going to stick with my skate helmet for CRW, and I'll probably pick up a PG helmet when I start getting into canopy piloting. I don't do much freefall, so I have no real need for a freefall-proof helmet.


kallend  (D 23151)

Dec 30, 2017, 9:52 AM
Post #37 of 52 (4487 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
Quote:
The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device.

I think most people aren't making fashion statements. They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)

I agree. Full face helmets may have been a fashion statement 20 years ago but now they are just mainstream.

It's all a matter of risk/benefit analysis, and it will be different for different people doing different disciplines.


pms07  (D 7571)

Dec 31, 2017, 9:10 AM
Post #38 of 52 (4341 views)
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Re: [kallend] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm always fascinated by the "fashion statement" complaints about full face helmets (and other skydiving gear choices). If someone doesn't want to jump one, they should not. The "fashion statement" thing seems silly to me however.

I've been jumping a full face since 1990ish and am satisfied that these helmets do I what I intend for them. Cuts down on wind and noise, while offering some (perhaps limited) protection from minor dings, knee or foot to the face, other collisions, etc. Also gives me a place for audibles, cameras, flysight, etc.

Many skydiving gear choices seem expensive, given the small market. it's been that way always and is unlikely to change...


shadeland  (D 34638)

Jan 2, 2018, 5:53 PM
Post #39 of 52 (4072 views)
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Re: [skyderrill66] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

skyderrill66 wrote:
benlangfeld wrote:
My main motivation for an impending KISS purchase is that I'd like to be able to wear my glasses behind the visor to be able to see the wind sock from higher up. That and (eventually) a chin-mount for a camera make it seem worthwhile. The style factor is really neither here nor there for me, anything new and clean that fits perfectly would satisfy that.
32 jumps and already thinking about adding a camera. You need to learn to walk before you run. 32 jumps you need to learn to skydive safely first before adding a camera.

Assuming they were thinking about a chin-mount camera because of the cut-away system, I would encourage that kind of forward (stress the forward, as in 200 jumps forward) thinking in gear choices for new jumpers. There are helmets that have a variety of either snag resistant, easily cut-away, or both, reduces the risk for camera flying. The less teletubby-snag baits I see the better.


benlangfeld

Jan 3, 2018, 5:59 AM
Post #40 of 52 (3991 views)
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Re: [shadeland] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Indeed this is the scenario, and the best mount Ive seen is http://www.chutingstar.com/grellfab-gopro-kiss-front-helmet-mount. Being in view, any possible snags will be easier to resolve than when you cant see them, the mount is secured with rubber bands which will break with sufficient force from a snag, and if they dont, theres a bright red cut-away handle right in front of your face which will send the camera a mile away pretty quick.

Again, no intent of actually mounting a camera without a C, but the more I know about the subject now, the more Ill know at that time and thus the safer itll be, compared to ignoring the topic until 200 jumps and slapping on a sticky mount camera without a second thought.


skyderrill66  (D 21280)

Jan 4, 2018, 8:17 AM
Post #41 of 52 (3812 views)
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Re: [benlangfeld] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

benlangfeld wrote:
Dude, I said eventually. A helmet will last me at least 400 jumps. I have no intention of ignoring the SIM recommendations, no need to jump down my throat.
I was not trying to jump down your throat.Sorry it came out the wrong way. I just dont want to see another brother/sister skydiver injured or worse from doing to much to soon.
BlueSkies
Derrill


T_C

Jan 5, 2018, 12:18 PM
Post #42 of 52 (3616 views)
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Re: [IamAdam] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only impact-rated skydiving helmet I'm aware of is the ICE from Tonfly - I'm about to buy one.

Having tried ski helmets myself, I wouldn't advise it - they cup a large amount of air in a belly-to-earth position, let alone HU. There are also issues with audibles - even in the headphone inserts, you'd struggle to hear one.

Skydiving helmets are nothing but shiny camera mounts, available in various colours. They do zip to protect the brain from concussive forces. As ever, skydivers would rather look cool than be safe.

Traumatic brain injuries are for life, not just for christmas.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jan 12, 2018, 9:54 AM
Post #43 of 52 (3180 views)
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Re: [T_C] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

An incident with a helmet on is much more survivable with far less traumatic injuries than without.

A helmet without a hard chin piece offers far less protection than one with.


tripp9r  (C 19299)

Jan 16, 2018, 1:37 AM
Post #44 of 52 (2933 views)
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Re: [IJskonijn] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

IJskonijn wrote:

Edit: A bit of google later, I've found something that's quite close to OP's initial request. http://www.icaro2000.com/.../SkyDive/SkyDive.htm. Anyone on these forums that have experience with this type of helmet? They say on the website it meets EN966.

Does anyone know in these helmets have audible pockets?
I contacted the manufacturer two weeks ago Butter havnt got an answer yet.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jan 16, 2018, 6:39 PM
Post #45 of 52 (2794 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
Quote:
The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device.

I think most people aren't making fashion statements. They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)
When I'm doing tandems my Cookie G-3 makes an excellent sneeze guard. Wink


flyingwallop  (B License)

Jun 19, 2018, 6:43 AM
Post #46 of 52 (1213 views)
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Re: [T_C] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tonfly Full face unveiled

https://www.facebook.com/tonflypage/


EvilGenius  (D License)

Jun 25, 2018, 9:04 AM
Post #47 of 52 (1010 views)
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Re: [flyingwallop] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently it meets the EN 966 certification, I don't like the look of those tests....nope...nope...nope!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq0BrxVgjEM


Anachronist

Jun 26, 2018, 6:08 PM
Post #48 of 52 (850 views)
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Re: [flyingwallop] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

flyingwallop wrote:
Tonfly Full face unveiled

https://www.facebook.com/tonflypage/

Excited that someone is finally moving forward with the next generation of full faces. Looking forward to handling one and seeing how it's put together, my G2 is disintegrating and the G3 is too expensive to simply be a replacement rather than an upgrade. I believe I bought my G2 for $200 new, straight from Cookie. I know it's silly but my mammal brain just has a hard time spending almost twice as much for basically the exact same thing.


Anachronist

Jun 26, 2018, 6:23 PM
Post #49 of 52 (843 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
Quote:
The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device.

I think most people aren't making fashion statements. They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)

Spend a couple hours in a tunnel, might change your mind, and then it is "what you're use to." I enjoy wind on my face under canopy, but I prefer sunglasses over goggles (I can't get sunglasses to work with a open face, too much air) and not 150mph+ air on my face in freefall. I'm also not a huge fan of the chin cup or chin strap, full face just kinda hugs my head, little to no pressure on my jaw. Also, I got kicked in the face last weekend on exit, was glad for my visor. Oh and rain, full face in rain is nice, as rare as it is. That was actually what made me try one to begin with, <100 jumps, got out in rain in a Protec, said that was enough of that for me Sly


(This post was edited by Anachronist on Jun 26, 2018, 6:27 PM)


Westerly

Jun 26, 2018, 8:18 PM
Post #50 of 52 (813 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] Any SAFE full-face helmets out there? [In reply to] Can't Post

gowlerk wrote:
Quote:
The full face skydiving helmet is more of a fashion statement than a safety device.

I think most people aren't making fashion statements. They just prefer not to have the wind in their face. (Something that I don't understand myself)

For me it's not really the wind, it's the convience. The issue with an open face is usually the goggle straps need to go under which means that you have to take the helmet off, put the goggles on, put the helmet back on, ect, ect. Then when you're under canopy you cant easily take the goggles off a well-fitted helmet because the straps are over your ears so you would have to take the helmet off or leave the goggles on. Too many steps, too much on-off crap. The nice thing about the face shield is it's a single action to open or close it and I can get it done in a second flat. I can keep the shield open all the way until the green light and then close it right as I verify the spot. Then when I am under canopy I can quickly open the shield and get a clear view of everything without having to look through goggles which distorts the image some.

The other advantage is the fact that close faced helmets are quieter. I've did about 150 jumps with a closed face, then I switched to an open face for one single jump and totally forgot how much louder open faces can be. Not all are really loud, but the ones I jumped were. Closed face solves that problem without needing ear plugs.


(This post was edited by Westerly on Jun 26, 2018, 8:22 PM)


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