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guidelines for landings in wrong places

 


alopatenko

Nov 22, 2017, 7:24 PM
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guidelines for landings in wrong places Can't Post

are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?


(This post was edited by alopatenko on Nov 22, 2017, 7:29 PM)


countzero  (D 32712)

Nov 22, 2017, 8:03 PM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't land there.

That answer may seem flippant but it's easy to accomplish. Don't just show up at the DZ, be a green light lemming and then just follow the wind sock on landing.

Instead- know the spot, jump run and winds for the day. Based on that look at the overhead photo and figure out the area you'll be opening above. Then look at all the bad and good places to land off if needed between that area and the peas.

Have a plan and know your outs. Don't fly over anything you don't want to land on. And remember the landing priorities in order: 1- wings level, 2- area clear of obstacles, 3- into the wind.

Better a down winder in a clear field than hitting a fence into the wind.


husslr187  (B 47237)

Nov 22, 2017, 8:30 PM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Section 4 in the SIM. As said above prevention is better


jcrouch  (D 16979)

Nov 22, 2017, 8:44 PM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Section 5-1 of the SIM has recommendations for off field landings. It was added in 2001 or 2003 after there were several fatalities from jumpers making mistakes when landing off the drop zone. Page 106.
http://uspa.org/...les/Man_SIM_2016.pdf


husslr187  (B 47237)

Nov 23, 2017, 5:08 AM
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Re: [jcrouch] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't realize it was in two different places in the sim. I was looking at the one on page 29-30 but the one you pointed out looks to be more in depth.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Nov 23, 2017, 6:41 AM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

If you skydive long enough, you will find yourself in a predicament under canopy of where to land off in not so great of an area.

Rule Number One. Don't panic.

Rule Number Two. See rule #1

Realize your situation as soon as you open.

The wind can be your friend. Or your enemy. "Get backitis" has wrecked many a jumper, when they could have just done a down wind run to a safe landing area.

Think your way through all the way to the landing. Avoid any hazards if possible. If not, pick the softest, most forgiving hazard to hit.

Don't forget your PLF training.

Look before you leap.

Always take a look down in freefall. Opening at 5,000 feet may mean the difference between a nice place to land or disaster. I learned this trick many years ago at the Lost Prairie boogie, where there are mountains.


unkulunkulu  (D License)

Nov 23, 2017, 7:41 AM
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Re: [grimmie] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
the softest, most forgiving hazard to hit.
worth repeating that this is never the earth (see "wing level" priority)


skytribe  (D 9403)

Nov 23, 2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

1st jump course stuff.

Water, Tree, Buildings, Power Lines all should be covered in 1st jump course. If not then I suggest you go find an instructor and go through this again.

I still recall this information from nearly 30 years ago, even though I've yet to have to use it in real life.

That being said, avoidance is obviously a better course of action and making decisions early to avoid getting into bad situations. If its a choice of landing off in a large open field that I know is easy with no problems or risking flying over hazards and I should make it to the landing area. Make the decision early rather than get caught out at low altitude with no options. Know what the winds are doing and pay attention to where you are - that includes where you get out of the plane.


Maddingo

Nov 23, 2017, 12:53 PM
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Re: [skytribe] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

You tell me you do not know this stuff that they do not teach you? In our country it is mandatory that you pass a safety test with 100% score, otherwise you don't get the license. It is a block of probably around 200 questions covering every single possible safety concern in skydiving and it's remedy. Looks like skydiving courses are somewhat shitty in some countries.


(This post was edited by Maddingo on Nov 23, 2017, 12:57 PM)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Nov 23, 2017, 3:10 PM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

 The answers have pretty much covered everything. One other thing to remember is not to focus on the hazard....

Its called target fixation, and you'd be surprised how often there will be one hazard in a huge clear area, and somehow, someone will find a way to miss the clear space, and fly right into the hazard.

Here is a classic example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15oRVkeQNbY


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Nov 23, 2017, 5:28 PM
Post #11 of 19 (2335 views)
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

That's actually a great question, but unfortunately it has a lengthy answer. There are so many variables that the best answer is more of a discussion.

Might I suggest you take charge on that and ask a leader at your DZ (DZO, Chief instructor, S&TA, old grunt) to hold a seminar on the subject. For new jumpers the answer is most effective when local, real-world examples can be used to teach the fundamentals.

I like that you posed the question here. Even better, never be afraid to be the catalyst. Ask around the drop zone. I bet you will find a willing "seasoned" jumper to share some wisdom.


kuai43  (C License)

Nov 23, 2017, 7:52 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2258 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

obelixtim wrote:
The answers have pretty much covered everything. One other thing to remember is not to focus on the hazard....

Its called target fixation, and you'd be surprised how often there will be one hazard in a huge clear area, and somehow, someone will find a way to miss the clear space, and fly right into the hazard.

Here is a classic example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15oRVkeQNbY

I thought you were going to tag this one..
https://youtu.be/Ha-l2qCbFms?t=142


obelixtim  (D 84)

Nov 24, 2017, 5:03 AM
Post #13 of 19 (2080 views)
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Re: [kuai43] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I thought you were going to tag this one..
https://youtu.be/Ha-l2qCbFms?t=142

That's the one I was looking for, but couldn't find. Its a much better one, although the one I showed was a first jumper, so prolly could be excused a little.

He gives a whole lot of excuses about wind and conditions, but he could have easily avoided hitting the trailer with a little bit of toggle input. No need for a hook turn or violent toggle input.

You can see he actually turns into the trailer. Seems like it cost him an arm.

I've seen exactly the same thing with a jumper who picked out the only tree in a half mile radius. Fortunately without injury.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Nov 24, 2017, 5:12 AM)


rmarshall234  (D 18793)

Nov 24, 2017, 7:18 AM
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Also: Take a drive around the neighborhood of your local DZ with the idea of "what if I had to land _there_, or there." You get a much different - and better - perspective when looking at your possible outs from ground level. It becomes much less of an abstract idea as well. When going to a new DZ especially, show up about 10 or 15 minutes early and take this little drive around the neighborhood. In doing this, you'll find that the idea of landing out - and then the actual practice of doing so when it becomes necessary - is no big deal.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Nov 24, 2017, 8:05 AM
Post #15 of 19 (1965 views)
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

Some interesting answers, and some good info. Discussing this with the folks at your DZ is your best bet.

My suggestion on landing in the "wrong" place is don't.

Landing out is not landing in the wrong place. Trees, powerlines, fences, into the side of a building, water, that sort of thing would be a "wrong place".

And (with certain exceptions), it's usually avoidable. Some DZs have limited outs. Some have directions where the outs are fairly far away, with nothing close (SDC has virtually no outs to the east that are close, for example).

Choosing an alternate (and choosing to use an alternate) is best done early. The earlier you realize that you won't make it back, the more options you will have. Waiting will limit your options, waiting too long may eliminate any good ones.

It's a good idea to have some idea of what you would choose for an out before you jump (see the "driving around the neighborhood post").

Most DZs have an aerial photo for DZ briefings. Those will give you an idea of potential outs, but always discuss this with the briefer. Some places that appear usable from the pic aren't in reality.

When landing in an unfamiliar area, avoid any 'straight lines'. Ditches, roads, field edges (one type of vegetation to another). Those are all places where fences and powerlines are very common. Keep in mind that fences and powerlines are often very hard to spot until it's too late.

If you do land in a tree, or hit powerlines and get hung up, STAY THERE. Far more jumpers are injured or killed from falling while trying to get down than during the landing (obviously, if you are hanging in the tree, a foot or two off the ground, this doesn't apply).

This topic makes for an excellent Safety Day discussion.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Nov 24, 2017, 11:12 AM
Post #16 of 19 (1868 views)
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to further the water landing hazard. You might be landing in still (a lake or pond) or moving water (Rivers with current or at the beach, in the surf. I

In moving water, be prepared to get out of your gear quickly, If the current catches your canopy it can drag you under. At the beach, if you can't make the beach, it is better to fly out beyond the surf line, as well as getting caught by waves, a boat can't get in there to pick you up.

Most people who are taught their water drills are basically anticipating landing in still water, but if you land in moving water you have to be really on to your drills, because once you splash down, it'll all be on. Moving water can get lethal pretty quick!

And you should be carrying a flotation device if you are jumping near water......


jonstark  (D 8298)

Nov 26, 2017, 6:54 AM
Post #17 of 19 (1446 views)
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Re: [alopatenko] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

Dont fun jump a canopy that youre not confident in landing out.


mxk  (D 36227)

Nov 26, 2017, 8:35 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1394 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

obelixtim wrote:
Most people who are taught their water drills are basically anticipating landing in still water, but if you land in moving water you have to be really on to your drills, because once you splash down, it'll all be on. Moving water can get lethal pretty quick!

Example: https://youtu.be/5Sh4PouHIEQ?t=8


dthames  (D 34390)

Nov 27, 2017, 10:33 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1120 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] guidelines for landings in wrong places [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
alopatenko wrote:
are there any guidelines what to do in case of landings happens to wrong places
powerlines, hills, buildings, forest, water etc what to do in each case?

That's actually a great question, but unfortunately it has a lengthy answer. There are so many variables that the best answer is more of a discussion.

Might I suggest you take charge on that and ask a leader at your DZ (DZO, Chief instructor, S&TA, old grunt) to hold a seminar on the subject. For new jumpers the answer is most effective when local, real-world examples can be used to teach the fundamentals.

I like that you posed the question here. Even better, never be afraid to be the catalyst. Ask around the drop zone. I bet you will find a willing "seasoned" jumper to share some wisdom.

Some things that have served me well.
1. Always know the direction the wind is from, where the sun is (compass heading), and how to tell which way is north, south, east, and west where you are jumping today. Know those things when you get on the aircraft, every time.
2. Have a high level of confidence in your abilities flying the canopy and in your assessment of the situation. If it looks like you are landing off, this is not a good time to be second guessing your next decisions.
3. Always have 'plan B' lined up behind your initial plan if you are forced to land off. That area that looked clear from 2000 feet, is suddenly not so pretty after all.



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