Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Atair WinX

 


theplummeter  (D 34357)

Aug 29, 2016, 9:31 PM
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Atair WinX Can't Post

Any owners care to comment on the canopy? I will demo a 150 next weekend but would ultimately like to purchase a 170. Previously had a Spectre for wingsuit jumps but that went to a student at my dropzone and I am back in the market for a wingsuit canopy.

The 150 should give me a good idea of what to expect but curious about pack volume and what people think about the canopy in general.


CygnusX-1  (D 33314)

Aug 30, 2016, 10:04 AM
Post #2 of 13 (5308 views)
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Re: [theplummeter] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Flew one for some of my first wingsuit jumps while in Voss, Norway. I normally jump a Stiletto 135 loaded at 1.44. I was demoing a 150. I could have demoed a 135 but it packed up way too small for my rig. The flaps on my container were just wrinkly loose when closed with the 135. So (at least for the 135) this canopy packs up very small. The 150 fit my rig good (which is designed for a 150).

Overall impressions:
The good - Loved the openings. They were all on heading and I did not have any line twists or other opening issues on my (2nd-5th ever) wingsuit jumps.
The bad - Comparative speaking, the flight characteristics were very sluggish. Not sure if this is because I upsized, different canopy design, or whatever. Attempting harness turns were non-existent, this could be considered a good or bad thing depending on your desires. For me it was good, because I had booties that would not come off even when unzipped. I had to reach down while bringing my leg up to get the thing off my shoe. The canopy did not even attempt to turn while doing this maneuver.
It seemed like I had to bury a toggle to get the canopy to even consider turning. And when it did, the turn was very slow. I also felt like I was being blown all over the place (having to make constant corrections) with what I would consider light winds.
The okay - Landings were just ok. Flare was good (relatively speaking). I didn't have any issues landing. But these were just straight in non-speed induced landings. I did not attempt to do any riser turns or use double fronts. Hey, I was in Norway. I wanted to extend my time under canopy as much as I could!
Conclusion - It was a good opening canopy that will get you where you need to go. It does the job intended.

Side note: Since then I have flown a Storm 135 (hated it for wingsuiting) and a Pilot7 137. My leading contender for a wingsuit canopy is currently the Pilot. It has the same beautiful openings as the WinX, but is also fun to fly after it is open.


birdynamnam  (D 179)

Sep 16, 2016, 12:34 PM
Post #3 of 13 (4950 views)
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Re: [theplummeter] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Replaced my Storm 150 with a Winx 150. Can compare to a 9c Pilot also. Winx takes the win - easy and in any area, be it openings and those are just picture perfect, much faster yet they still feel softer. How did Atair do that trick? The flight characteristics; at first I thought a little sluggish compared to the Storm. Well, it just flies a lot flatter as the Storm flies very steep so feel is different. After some jumps I prefer flying the Winx by far - and IMO it is way more fun than e.g. a Pilot same size. landing it, flare power is better than Storm or Pilot. Swooping is comparable but with much less toggle pressure. The flare comes sooner and stays much longer than both the Storm and Pilot. Packvol is slightly less than the Storm. I only do wingsuiting now a'days, I highly recommend the Winx. If you where to go low porosity, you would have to upsize. With Winx you can stay with a WL that you think is fun, yet still have a wingsuit perfect canopy.


Fall0ut

Sep 17, 2016, 7:20 AM
Post #4 of 13 (4726 views)
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Re: [birdynamnam] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

birdynamnam wrote:
Replaced my Storm 150 with a Winx 150. .........Packvol is slightly less than the Storm.

That's odd.. Atair used to measure their canopies different than PD(PIA method). Quote from Atair manual "Atair measures surface area by measuring the span x chord of the bottom skin. Stane Krajnc, the designer of the Troll, feels that this measurement best represents a flying canopy"

So a WinX 150 should be bigger than a Storm 150 (equivalent to a Storm 170).
Has anyone compared canopy sizes by actually laying them out on the floor? Maybe that's why you feel differences in flight characteristics stronger than they would be if you compared them on equal sizes.


Quagmirian  (C 110392)

Sep 17, 2016, 8:47 AM
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Re: [Fall0ut] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

PD use the method you just described.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 17, 2016, 9:20 AM
Post #6 of 13 (4672 views)
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Re: [Fall0ut] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Correction: before 2000, there were several different methods for measuring canopies, but since the turn of the century, most manufacturers have converted to Performance Designs' method.

During the 1970s, every manufacturer used a different measuring method, with only Para-Flite and Parachute Industries of South Africa agreeing on the same method. ..... maybe because Para-Flite taught PISA how to build their canopies under license.

During the early 1980s, the Parachute Industry Association adopted Para-Flite's measuring method as the industry standard and it worked great for measuring for rectangular canopies. Para-Flite, PISA and PIA measure canopy chord from the trailing edge to the the top leading edge.
However, as tapered canopies increased in popularity, we began to see limitations to the PIA method.
Performance Designs simplified its measuring method by measuring chord along the bottom skin.
Before 2000, PD was the "odd man out" using thier own canopy measuring method that only considered bottom skin size (span multiplied by chord).
Amusingly, before 2001, New Zealand Aerosports (aka. Icarus) used the PIA method, but converted to PD's method in 2001.


birdynamnam  (D 179)

Sep 18, 2016, 12:25 AM
Post #7 of 13 (4584 views)
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Re: [Fall0ut] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

The bag was a bit smal for the Storm 150, the Winx150 goes smoothly in. So yeah, Winx is packing slightly smaller


birdynamnam  (D 179)

Sep 18, 2016, 1:10 PM
Post #8 of 13 (4494 views)
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Re: [Fall0ut] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Fall0ut wrote:
birdynamnam wrote:
Replaced my Storm 150 with a Winx 150. .........Packvol is slightly less than the Storm.

That's odd.. Atair used to measure their canopies different than PD(PIA method). Quote from Atair manual "Atair measures surface area by measuring the span x chord of the bottom skin. Stane Krajnc, the designer of the Troll, feels that this measurement best represents a flying canopy"

So a WinX 150 should be bigger than a Storm 150 (equivalent to a Storm 170).
Has anyone compared canopy sizes by actually laying them out on the floor? Maybe that's why you feel differences in flight characteristics stronger than they would be if you compared them on equal sizes.

Forgot to mention I laid them out on the floor. A Storm 150 is ~same size as Winx 150. Only major difference is that the cell height on the Winx is lower, which might explain the smaller pack volume


Fall0ut

Sep 19, 2016, 1:51 AM
Post #9 of 13 (4337 views)
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Re: [birdynamnam] Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay thank you! Good news that canopy sizes are now easier comparable!


Fall0ut

Jan 17, 2017, 12:14 AM
Post #10 of 13 (3377 views)
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Re:Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently had a chance to put 6 jumps (only wingsuit) on a WinX 135 loaded at 1.3 openings were always on heading, picture perfect and quick, but not too hard. Better than my Storm for sure.

Glide was flat and the flare is impressive, landing was a breeze.

However, in my opinion my Storm 150 feels more "sporty" and fun flying it although it's a bigger size. Guess you can't have everything..Unsure


lyosha

Aug 23, 2017, 6:45 PM
Post #11 of 13 (1209 views)
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Re: [Fall0ut] Re:Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone told me that the low bulk option for a winx is still ZP material (I looked up, and Porcher does make PN10 low bulk ZP). But their website says it's Porcher PN9. Which is it?

Also does anyone know what is the expected lifespan of the low bulk version of the canopy?


Geo-Log  (D 823)

Aug 24, 2017, 5:37 AM
Post #12 of 13 (1063 views)
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Re: [lyosha] Re:Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

lyosha wrote:
Someone told me that the low bulk option for a winx is still ZP material

No, it is certainly not. I can breath through the ultralight fabric of my Winx-105 like through F111 Frown
So the canopy fly like an elevator, it is hard to return back to LZ from a long spot.


lyosha

Aug 24, 2017, 8:14 AM
Post #13 of 13 (989 views)
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Re: [Geo-Log] Re:Atair WinX [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you know what the expected life is?



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