Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016

 


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Aug 21, 2016, 6:37 PM
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Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 Can't Post

http://www.wcpo.com/...cident-leaves-1-dead

MIDDLETOWN, Ohio -- A 47-year-old skydiver died Sunday after he deployed his parachute too low, the skydiving company owner said.

John Hart, owner of Start Skydiving, said the victim had 95 jumps and held a B-license, equivalent to intermediate skill level. His equipment was current, Hart said.

Hart said the jumper "made a couple poor decisions" and deployed his chute 1,000 feet below the recommended altitude.

The Mason man hit a tree line before he landed behind a fence near the intersection of Hook Road and Carmody Blvd. about a half-mile west of the airport, according to state troopers.

Hart said the man died on impact around 11 a.m.

"He was on a skydive, normal skydive, and deployed his parachute at an altitude that we believe to be lower than the recommended altitude for his experience level by the U.S. Parachute Association," Hart said.

He said based on eyewitness accounts, the man did not appear to make any violent spins or movements that may have contributed to the crash.

"It's unfortunate, but this was completely avoidable," he told the Journal-News.

An OSHP representative said more information would be released later in the day.

In June 2015, a Start Skydiving student was injured after missing her target and landing on top of a two-story house. Hart said the woman was supposed to pull the parachute at 5,000 feet, but she didn't respond on the radio.

Shortly after the 2015 incident, Hart said they teach about 200 people each weekend at the school. Anyone doing a jump without an instructor needs to take a six-hour course before even setting foot on a plane.






Word that I've been passed by two people was that it was a spinning mal that was chopped at a few hundred feet about 1 mile from the airport. I was told he did his first solo in this spring so 95 jumps in 4 months or so.


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Aug 21, 2016, 6:38 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Aug 22, 2016, 7:59 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

PhreeZone wrote:
Word that I've been passed by two people was that it was a spinning mal that was chopped at a few hundred feet about 1 mile from the airport. I was told he did his first solo in this spring so 95 jumps in 4 months or so.
That makes more sense than the news story.

Sorry to hear we've lost another. Those spinners will make you lose altitude fast. Never forget that. Unsure


skybill  (D 6009)

Aug 22, 2016, 8:55 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

I concur with John. "Spinners" can get nasty, 'had a few myself!!! Any other thoughts on the subject's handling of the situation would be speculation.....so we wait.....


patricksc1987

Aug 22, 2016, 9:18 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey guys, to try and put a stop to some potential rumors here are some unofficial details.

Low main deployment, spinning malfunction due to toggle fire, low cutaway, low reserve deployment.

I know how these forms go.

But please be respectful.


(This post was edited by patricksc1987 on Aug 22, 2016, 9:24 AM)


pcjumper  (D License)

Aug 22, 2016, 9:29 AM
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Re: [patricksc1987] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone know Canopy size and type?


JohnnyBoulder

Aug 22, 2016, 9:43 AM
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Re: [pcjumper] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

RSL or MARD?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Aug 22, 2016, 2:02 PM
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Re: [JohnnyBoulder] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

I was told by a rigger yes on to the RSL and he was jumping an older Infinity container so it did not have the option of an MARD. From what I have been told I doubt either would have helped at 200- 300 feet which is where he chopped. Reserve was still somewhat folded and just out of the free bag.



In the past cutaways at this height have occurred when the jumper loses all track of altitude trying to fix the malfunction and only when they visually see the ground come back into view did they abandon trying to fix the issue and take another action. Maintaining altitude awareness is critical and hard decks are there for a reason.


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Aug 22, 2016, 4:02 PM)


megamalfunction  (D License)

Aug 22, 2016, 2:27 PM
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Re: [patricksc1987] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

It sounds like a canopy transfer (or possibly riding the spinner) may have been a better option. BSBD


skebenga  (D 519)

Aug 22, 2016, 9:37 PM
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Re: [patricksc1987] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Sad..it has "Murphy" written all over it. Condolences to the family and friends. Gotta remember that the harmless, fixable and inconvenient brake fire/prem brake release of the past is indeed a real problem with many of the modern tapered canopies. Strangely even more so at moderate loadings. Large Canopies are relatively unaffected. Small canopies dive and spin without line twist, also fixable..but its the moderate ones that enter line twist as opposed to diving, then also start to dive at which time its generally unrecoverable. There are rig manufacturers out there whose toggle stow arrangements are still way behind the times..get risers whose toggles stow super snug, secure and have a pin..because most brake fires originate from toggle 'flutter' at the moment the risers ascend, the relative wind/drag simply rips them off..(hell even fresh velcro will prevent this) If your toggles stow by means of tuck tabs, and you jump a moderately loaded elliptical or tapered canopy..its only a matter of time!


Ploy

Aug 23, 2016, 6:35 AM
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Re: [skebenga] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Assuming enough altitude, what is the correct response to a toggle fire? My immediate response would be trying to pull the other toggle, but that obviously wouldn't work with line twists. Is there anything to try to stop the spin, other than kicking out of the twists first? And for that matter, is it possible to kick out of twists while spinning (again assuming enough altitude) because of a toggle fire?


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Aug 23, 2016, 8:27 AM
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Re: [Ploy] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Toggle fire does not always lead to an immediate line twist (or to an line twist at all)

So my first reaction will be the correspond rear riser

Pull/Let go other toggle may help even in a some twist but of course it's only a chance
so if you can reach the line above the twist it's way more effective (but you should avoid to get your hands catched into twist)


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Aug 23, 2016, 11:17 AM
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Re: [NWPoul] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

NWPoul wrote:
Toggle fire does not always lead to an immediate line twist (or to an line twist at all)

So my first reaction will be the correspond rear riser

Pull/Let go other toggle may help even in a some twist but of course it's only a chance
so if you can reach the line above the twist it's way more effective (but you should avoid to get your hands catched into twist)

I've had a few, and never had a line twist as a result.

190 Triathlon, loaded 1:1 - 2 of them. rear riser opposite the spin stopped the spin just fine. Gave me time to evaluate the situation (the first time was very confusing). No problems.

170 Sabre2, loaded about 1.15:1. Several of them. Finally started pushing the "nose" of the toggle as far and as hard into the pocket on the riser as I could. None since then (but I had a lot of jumps on it before without a toggle fire without doing this). Rear riser input would not stop the spin, just slow it down some (maybe half?). So I got where I would recognize it after about 3/4 of a turn, then reach up quickly and grab both toggles.


wmw999  (D 6296)

Aug 23, 2016, 2:37 PM
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

I on the other hand have had two that resulted in instant one twists. They were on a Diablo (noted for fast turning). Both were quick decisions to cut away, as I was on bigway events, and in one of the lower-opening tracking waves. RSL opened the reserve in both cases (it's faster than I am), with no line twists.

Wendy P.


kuai43  (C License)

Aug 23, 2016, 5:39 PM
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Re: [skebenga] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Snap toggles. I'm not a rigger, nor a manufacturer, but I really don't know why anyone would use anything else if you're worried about a premature toggle release.

It would take an act of god to make my snap toggles release on opening. I'm sold on them and will definitely prefer them when I get my next risers.

The only downside is that it's a bit more difficult to pull the slider down over them.


RMURRAY

Aug 23, 2016, 5:56 PM
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Re: [kuai43] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

exactly my thought. there is no reason at all for having more than one incident of a toggle fire. fix it. i pack lots of rigs and my own JS snap toggles are the best.


sammielu  (D 33923)

Aug 23, 2016, 7:40 PM
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Re: [RMURRAY] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Togle fires are often due to improper toggle stowing. If you or someone you know has one, consult with your rigger for 5 min, maybe you need to change your stowing procedure or have a modification or repair done on your risers.


skebenga  (D 519)

Aug 26, 2016, 2:14 AM
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Real good point mentioning that opposite rear riser input does indeed NOT stop the spin on some Canopies during brake fire. I hear this all the time and it disturbs me! On all my Canopy Courses, one of the drills is to release one toggle immediately post deployment and allow the canopy to rotate, then to stop the rotation after 3 rotations by means of releasing the opposite one, or by pulling the released one down...of course this does not replicate a full brake fire during deployment (which is a very different ball game, and smacks you into an immediate violent and disorientating spin on some canopies)..but at least gives the user the opportunity to develop a game plan.


Premier airdvr  (D 10977)

Aug 26, 2016, 4:26 AM
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Re: [skebenga] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm hearing all sorts of scenarios for fixing a toggle fire. Somewhere on the interweb was a chart of how much altitude is lost during a spin. I'm going to suggest fixing your toggle fire problem on the ground after you pay for your inspection and re-pack. Far too many folks have have lost the battle trying to fix their canopy under pressure. Don't be afraid to get rid of that spinner and try again on another day.


dzswoop717  (D 9277)

Aug 26, 2016, 7:51 AM
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Re: [airdvr] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Altitude awareness and hard deck!!!! If you don't have a landable canopy by then go to plan B.

I try to fix a problem until 2k, Then plan B for me, I use to use 1500' as my Plan B altitude, but I am older , slower, fat, and not as current.

I throw out at 3k or higher now adays, 2k and lower was my norm in the old days, Those days are long over and gone. It is sort of funny that my emergency procedure altitude now is the altitude I use to throw out my main pilot chute.


RogerRamjet  (D License)

Aug 26, 2016, 8:36 AM
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Re: [dzswoop717] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

dzswoop717 wrote:
Altitude awareness and hard deck!!!! If you don't have a landable canopy by then go to plan B.

I try to fix a problem until 2k, Then plan B for me, I use to use 1500' as my Plan B altitude, but I am older , slower, fat, and not as current.

I throw out at 3k or higher now adays, 2k and lower was my norm in the old days, Those days are long over and gone. It is sort of funny that my emergency procedure altitude now is the altitude I use to throw out my main pilot chute.

Considering how long some of these modern canopies take to open, I'm with you on higher everything... I went through the round to square transition and after the slider was added, the Strato-Star and 7-cell foil (the first two successful squares for general jumping) opened in about the same distance/time as a PC or Cheopo of the times. A lot of current canopies seem to take a lot of altitude to fully deploy and adjustments such as yours should (must) be made.


jsaxton  (D 26818)

Aug 26, 2016, 10:41 AM
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Re: [megamalfunction] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to see you try a canopy transfer under a spinning mal.


Trfsrfr  (D License)

Aug 28, 2016, 6:16 PM
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Re: [Ploy] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Ploy wrote:
Assuming enough altitude, what is the correct response to a toggle fire? My immediate response would be trying to pull the other toggle, but that obviously wouldn't work with line twists. Is there anything to try to stop the spin, other than kicking out of the twists first? And for that matter, is it possible to kick out of twists while spinning (again assuming enough altitude) because of a toggle fire?

My $.02.-

1st option - if ever in doubt...
2nd option...
My experience;
5 of my 6 cutaways were line twists/spinners.

There are 2 types as stated; line-twists, and spinners.

The line twist is quite often recoverable, but sometimes not. I got really good at fixing them under my Stiletto 107.
The spinner, usually from a brake fire, is usually only recoverable if you are really good at kicking out of line-twists, and have a lot of extra altitude, like you may have when doing a tandem video. But even then, time is precious.

What I have been begun to do lately...is just wait and give it a second.
Let it figure out what it is, and what it's going to do.

During that second of waiting, I usually locate my handles. About a second later you will know whether you are gonna pull them, or if you're gonna try and fix the spin.
It's either gonna all go south real fast, spinning on your back, or it's gonna be more predictable. But thrashing around in the harness, yanking here, pulling there, and shifting the load around doesn't help it while it's deciding what it's gonna do.

My last cutaway was a brake-fire. I gave it second, then I tried to fix it for a couple seconds and was making headway, and while I am sure I could have fixed it (just one more twist), the altitude it would have taken to do so would have landed me off and I would have missed the tandem I was filming's landing, so I chose to chop it, and land on.

Sorry to hear we lost another.
RIP.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Aug 29, 2016, 5:11 AM
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Re: [Trfsrfr] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Trfsrfr wrote:
<snip>...while I am sure I could have fixed it (just one more twist), the altitude it would have taken to do so would have landed me off and I would have missed the tandem I was filming's landing, so I chose to chop it, and land on.

Just my $.02 on this comment... I do NOT want to encourage anyone to play with a problem longer than prudent (too many have chopped too low in the past). But at this point in the process, who you are filming should be a very low priority... and landing off, well that would vary depending on the locality... some places that is a trival thing and others it could be life-threatening, so I leave that to your judgement. Remember, that while we try everything we can to ensure your reserve will always work... the fact is that it too can fail you.... if you don't really need that 'last chance' and you can get your main to work...

just saying...

glad they've worked out for ya,
JW


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Aug 29, 2016, 2:41 PM
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Re: [fcajump] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

My very first cut away, around 1450 jumps, was with Stevo W. doing tandem video. I was long and low. He waited in the landing area as I landed close, but away. He stood there as I ran and ran to the peas for my landing interview ..... Love you Stevo. Smile


Trfsrfr  (D License)

Aug 29, 2016, 3:21 PM
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Re: [jumpsalot-2] Fatality - Middletown, OH - 21 August 2016 [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is why I started with option 1, "if ever in doubt...".

Unfortunately people dont realize how much altitude you lose, and more importantly how many g-forces you create when you're cranking on some serious toggle turns, even under a large canopy.
So back to student training, if it ain't There, Square, and Steerable, get rid of it now.

That being said, there was another fatality in Phoenix today.

Second hand info I got was hard landing under some sort of malfunctioning main.

http://www.cbs5az.com/story/32865338/man-killed-in-skydiving-accident-outside-maricopa?autostart=true


(This post was edited by Trfsrfr on Aug 29, 2016, 3:45 PM)



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