Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
New Aerodyne softlinks

 


Deyan  (D 322)

Jul 14, 2014, 11:25 AM
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New Aerodyne softlinks Can't Post

Just a heads up.

Basically they got rid of the metal ring and made a tab from what it looks to me like ugly green 5/8" square weave Cool

The rest stays the same. Gray bartack for the main and red for the reserve.

Cheers
Attachments: WP_20140701_004.jpg (515 KB)
  WP_20140701_006.jpg (610 KB)


Southern_Man  (C License)

Jul 14, 2014, 11:26 AM
Post #2 of 23 (3595 views)
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

You still run them through 3 times?


Deyan  (D 322)

Jul 14, 2014, 11:31 AM
Post #3 of 23 (3577 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Aerodyne links were never made for 3 turns. Only the ones from Precision .


Southern_Man  (C License)

Jul 14, 2014, 11:33 AM
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

This is why I always open the directions...

should never rely on my memory.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 14, 2014, 11:34 AM
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

The new Aerodyne pattern is similar to "SLinks" made by Performance Designs.
A metal lump was never needed on the end of soft links. In comparison, the soft links made by Light Concepts and HyPer only needed large, ugly knots.


parachutist  (D 25468)

Jul 14, 2014, 2:14 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

riggerrob wrote:
The new Aerodyne pattern is similar to "SLinks" made by Performance Designs.
A metal lump was never needed on the end of soft links. In comparison, the soft links made by Light Concepts and HyPer only needed large, ugly knots.


So Aerodyne and NZaero are now making dupes of PD's design. Did the patent expire?


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jul 14, 2014, 6:15 PM
Post #7 of 23 (3182 views)
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Re: [parachutist] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Chris,

Quote:
Did the patent expire?

Maybe they got around it.

People usually hire patent attorneys for one of two reasons:

1. To obtain a patent
2. To figure how to get around a patent

Tongue

JerryBaumchen


dpreguy  (D 835)

Jul 14, 2014, 7:31 PM
Post #8 of 23 (3090 views)
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Correct: 3 turns on Precision's "Wrapit"


DHemer  (B License)

Jul 14, 2014, 10:11 PM
Post #9 of 23 (3009 views)
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a side question relating to the old aerodyne soft links

I was going through my gear last night and noticed that none of the rings are hand tacked on the main risers. it looks like there used to be some thread there but it may have worn/come out over the years. Risers and main are about 7 years old

How critical is it that this is fixed. Rig just came back from a cypres install and repack and I hope the rigger would have checked this sort of thing if it is important


ctrph8  (D License)

Jul 15, 2014, 12:04 AM
Post #10 of 23 (2952 views)
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Re: [DHemer] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

DHemer wrote:
Just a side question relating to the old aerodyne soft links

I was going through my gear last night and noticed that none of the rings are hand tacked on the main risers. it looks like there used to be some thread there but it may have worn/come out over the years. Risers and main are about 7 years old

How critical is it that this is fixed. Rig just came back from a cypres install and repack and I hope the rigger would have checked this sort of thing if it is important

My current set (from Jerry's excellent plans!) has rings. I know I tacked them at one time with e-thread but a couple of them have come loose. Now every week or three I tuck one a little bit back into the risers but at this point I'm pretty sure I could ignore them completely. I do it more out of habit than anything else.

Now that I'm thinking about it I'll probably tack it with waxed cord this week...maybe.


betzilla  (D 23089)

Jul 15, 2014, 9:43 AM
Post #11 of 23 (2667 views)
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Re: [DHemer] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I was going through my gear last night and noticed that none of the rings are hand tacked on the main risers. it looks like there used to be some thread there but it may have worn/come out over the years. Risers and main are about 7 years old

How critical is it that this is fixed. Rig just came back from a cypres install and repack and I hope the rigger would have checked this sort of thing if it is important

The tacking serves to keep the ring (or tab) inside the riser instead of sticking out to one side or the other, and to some extent, this helps to insure that the link is loaded properly too. Once your soft links have taken a good "set" with the tab or ring where it needs to be, the tacking isn't important at all. BUT Aerodyne's instructions stipulate that they should be tacked, so if you want to be anal, they *should* be tacked (not so with PD Slinks, so don't trash a rigger who doesn't tack those every time!).

In other words, it's not important for your safety, but it is important for the sake of following instructions Wink

I tend to tack soft links on mains only if the tabs/rings are poking out of the riser - I try to avoid poking sharp stuff through webbing if I can. I will only tack reserve soft links if the manufacturer's instructions explicitly tell me to. I am endlessly irritated by riggers who tack the soft links in such a way that I can't inspect them for proper assembly without cutting their inevitably tiny stitches and possibly nicking the riser in the process. If you're gonna tack it, do it in such a way that the next guy can still check the work, and so disassembly isn't a terrifying process!

That was WAY more than 2 cents, haha...


hookitt  (D License)

Jul 15, 2014, 10:46 AM
Post #12 of 23 (2615 views)
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Re: [DHemer] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

If the ring (or tab) is to the outside of the riser, the larkshead knot is exposed. The slider gommets are now able to hit the larks head knot. That can, and will, damage the larks head. Damage it enough and the link breaks. If the larkshead knot breaks near the ground, Then you break. ... Good times. This has happened.

So yes, it can be a safety issue if the ring is to the outside of the riser.


Edit. Referring to main risers. I know of zero instances this has happened on a reserve.


(This post was edited by hookitt on Jul 15, 2014, 10:49 AM)


Deyan  (D 322)

Jul 15, 2014, 11:11 AM
Post #13 of 23 (2560 views)
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Re: [parachutist] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

parachutist wrote:
So Aerodyne and NZaero are now making dupes of PD's design. Did the patent expire?

Add Parachute Systems to that list as well Wink

Cheers


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 15, 2014, 11:43 AM
Post #14 of 23 (2517 views)
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Re: [betzilla] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

betzilla wrote:
Quote:
I was going through my gear last night and noticed that none of the rings are hand tacked on the main risers. it looks like there used to be some thread there but it may have worn/come out over the years. Risers and main are about 7 years old

How critical is it that this is fixed. Rig just came back from a cypres install and repack and I hope the rigger would have checked this sort of thing if it is important

The tacking serves to keep the ring (or tab) inside the riser instead of sticking out to one side or the other, and to some extent, this helps to insure that the link is loaded properly too. Once your soft links have taken a good "set" with the tab or ring where it needs to be, the tacking isn't important at all. BUT Aerodyne's instructions stipulate that they should be tacked, so if you want to be anal, they *should* be tacked (not so with PD Slinks, so don't trash a rigger who doesn't tack those every time!).

In other words, it's not important for your safety, but it is important for the sake of following instructions Wink

I tend to tack soft links on mains only if the tabs/rings are poking out of the riser - I try to avoid poking sharp stuff through webbing if I can. I will only tack reserve soft links if the manufacturer's instructions explicitly tell me to. I am endlessly irritated by riggers who tack the soft links in such a way that I can't inspect them for proper assembly without cutting their inevitably tiny stitches and possibly nicking the riser in the process. If you're gonna tack it, do it in such a way that the next guy can still check the work, and so disassembly isn't a terrifying process!

That was WAY more than 2 cents, haha...

................................................................................

Agreed!

The primary reason for tacking soft link ends is to hide them inside the riser, is to protect them against being slapped by the metal slider grommets. Slap any link end often enough and hard enough and it will fall apart.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 15, 2014, 3:06 PM
Post #15 of 23 (2417 views)
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Re: [Deyan] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Deyan wrote:
parachutist wrote:
So Aerodyne and NZaero are now making dupes of PD's design. Did the patent expire?

Add Parachute Systems to that list as well Wink

Cheers

And Skylark.

Patent may not have expired, these companies may be paying licencing fees or something!


hajnalka  (A License)

Jul 15, 2014, 6:18 PM
Post #16 of 23 (2311 views)
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Re: [hookitt] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

hookitt wrote:
If the ring (or tab) is to the outside of the riser, the larkshead knot is exposed. The slider gommets are now able to hit the larks head knot. That can, and will, damage the larks head. Damage it enough and the link breaks. If the larkshead knot breaks near the ground, Then you break. ... Good times. This has happened.

So yes, it can be a safety issue if the ring is to the outside of the riser.


Edit. Referring to main risers. I know of zero instances this has happened on a reserve.

In addition to link failure,

This is a serious issue that can also lead to riser damage, if the slider grommet and metal link tab are guillotining the TY17 on each opening, as in the attached picture.

These were new Mirage risers with maybe 80 jumps.

So, please: Everyone, do tack your main link tabs inside the risers. I know of many malfunctions and slink failures due to unfortunate slink tab/brake line interactions, and wear. I'm happy to hear of any/all manufacturers doing away with the metal rings!

I agree with not tacking reserve slinks - just set them properly and be done with it - but would not fault any rigger for doing so.
Attachments: link_damage_comp.JPG (358 KB)


hajnalka  (A License)

Jul 15, 2014, 6:47 PM
Post #17 of 23 (2300 views)
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Re: [DHemer] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

DHemer wrote:
Just a side question relating to the old aerodyne soft links

I was going through my gear last night and noticed that none of the rings are hand tacked on the main risers. it looks like there used to be some thread there but it may have worn/come out over the years. Risers and main are about 7 years old

How critical is it that this is fixed. Rig just came back from a cypres install and repack and I hope the rigger would have checked this sort of thing if it is important

Hey DHemer, Many riggers won't look at your main, unless you specifically ask them to do so. Have someone tack your main links. Not critical, but definitely a good idea.


DHemer  (B License)

Jul 15, 2014, 10:53 PM
Post #18 of 23 (2230 views)
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Re: [hajnalka] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks every one for the reply's

I have soft slider stops on the risers, unless I rather forcibly pull the slider over the stops it is not going to hit the larks head knot or rings so I think I will just make sure the rings are tucked away when I pack


eric.fradet

Jul 16, 2014, 1:52 AM
Post #19 of 23 (2178 views)
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Re: [parachutist] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

So Aerodyne and NZaero are now making dupes of PD's design. Did the patent expire?
_________________________________________________________
For me the PD patent has absolutly no value in case of trial court, the soft link device with a ring has been invented by Michel Urbain from Parachutes de France (PF) a year before PD came up with their own one, which on the principle is not different except there is no ring (somewhere we can consider PD has been copying such device), the US patent office gave the patent to PD because PF did not ask for it and US patent office is not in charge to check what is existing on the field and if it what was used at this time, the US patent office only check in theirs papers if something close was patented or not..., means anyone is free to use the PD device because there was something existing in the prior art and for this reason PD will never intented any trial court, what they will loose for sure...


betzilla  (D 23089)

Jul 16, 2014, 8:18 AM
Post #20 of 23 (2015 views)
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Re: [hajnalka] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is a serious issue that can also lead to riser damage, if the slider grommet and metal link tab are guillotining the TY17 on each opening, as in the attached picture.

Wow, that's crazy! The VAST majority of my experience with soft links has been with the PD brand. While I knew metal on metal can cause problems, I've never seen anything quite like this.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 17, 2014, 2:16 PM
Post #21 of 23 (1699 views)
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Re: [betzilla] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

betzilla wrote:
In reply to:
This is a serious issue that can also lead to riser damage, if the slider grommet and metal link tab are guillotining the TY17 on each opening, as in the attached picture.

Wow, that's crazy! The VAST majority of my experience with soft links has been with the PD brand. While I knew metal on metal can cause problems, I've never seen anything quite like this.

..............................................................................

Remember that the original Parachutes de France soft links were issued with main risers that included "centering studs." Those "centering studs" looked like half of a "press the dot" snap fastener. They helped keep the soft link centered in the riser where it was hidden from slider grommets.


hajnalka  (A License)

Jul 21, 2014, 1:11 PM
Post #22 of 23 (1280 views)
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Re: [betzilla] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

betzilla wrote:
In reply to:
This is a serious issue that can also lead to riser damage, if the slider grommet and metal link tab are guillotining the TY17 on each opening, as in the attached picture.

Wow, that's crazy! The VAST majority of my experience with soft links has been with the PD brand. While I knew metal on metal can cause problems, I've never seen anything quite like this.

This one took me by surprise, because of the low jump #s on this rig and the major damage to the riser.

It only takes a few minutes to tack slinks, and pushing a blunt-nosed curved needle through a riser doesn't do it any damage.

Untacked, exposed soft tabs are usually OK, but they have lead to link failure, steering line hang-ups, numerous cutaways, and (if I remember correctly) at least one fatality in AZ years ago.

I always prefer to tack soft links. I'm happy to see Aerodyne get rid of the rings.


koppel  (F License)

Jul 23, 2014, 6:15 AM
Post #23 of 23 (1031 views)
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Re: [hajnalka] New Aerodyne softlinks [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It only takes a few minutes to tack slinks, and pushing a blunt-nosed curved needle through a riser doesn't do it any damage.

I rather tend to agree. I always find it interesting that people refuse to tack soft links due to needles but we are happy to run a needle through webbing to build the rig Laugh



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