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should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter?

 

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Poll: should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter?
yes 32 / 74%
no 11 / 26%
43 total votes
 
virgin-burner

Jul 11, 2014, 3:56 AM
Post #1 of 27 (3314 views)
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should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? Can't Post

say, there's a company making gear out there that employs child labour to make their product, of course such a company will not advertise this on their website,

would this fact matter to you or would you not care, or to keep it in line with the the poll-title, would it influence your (informed) buyers decision or not.


piisfish

Jul 11, 2014, 5:44 AM
Post #2 of 27 (3143 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

depends if they work properly Smile




busichio  (A 70633)

Jul 11, 2014, 7:41 AM
Post #4 of 27 (2966 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does it matter in any other goods or services that you purchase?


wasatchrider

Jul 11, 2014, 9:10 AM
Post #5 of 27 (2869 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

virgin-burner wrote:
say, there's a company making gear out there that employs child labour to make their product, of course such a company will not advertise this on their website,

would this fact matter to you or would you not care, or to keep it in line with the the poll-title, would it influence your (informed) buyers decision or not.

you called them out in another thread.. why not now?


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jul 11, 2014, 10:41 AM
Post #6 of 27 (2757 views)
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Re: [wasatchrider] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
you called them out in another thread.. why not now?

he doesn't want to let the squirrel out of the bag? Laugh

though in general the skydiving community doesn't seem to have many qualms about these types of issues. Nobody ever really mentions that the UAE has a horrible human rights record, and that many of the buildings in the background of all those SD Dubai shots were build by migrants held captive and in deplorable conditions.

It's a valid question though: to what degree should our sport take these issues into account when it comes to who we should support with our dollars.

edited to add: not sure this is the right forum for it though -- maybe general or speakers or something ::shrug::


(This post was edited by 3mpire on Jul 11, 2014, 10:42 AM)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jul 11, 2014, 2:16 PM
Post #7 of 27 (2551 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi v-b,

Quote:
would it influence your (informed) buyers decision or not.

The vast majority of skydivers that I have met in the last 50 yrs remind of a 17 yr old male, in a whore-house for the first time with a fistful of $50 bills. He is not thinking politicallty correct; he has other things on his mind.

Besides, generally, what can you buy here in the USA that is not made in some country with poor child labor laws?

JerryBaumchen


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 11, 2014, 2:45 PM
Post #8 of 27 (2502 views)
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Re: [3mpire] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nobody ever really mentions that the UAE has a horrible human rights record, and that many of the buildings in the background of all those SD Dubai shots were build by migrants held captive and in deplorable conditions.

In fairness, a number of us have mentioned just that in other threads on here. That (what you said), plus the fact that if you as a tourist get caught up in their their byzantine legal system you are so, so majorly fucked. I really can't see myself ever spending my tourist or skydiving dollars in Dubai (and possibly Thailand, too, for example), and these are the reasons why.


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jul 11, 2014, 2:49 PM
Post #9 of 27 (2495 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Completely fair point--I should say it is uncommon for these issues to come up in conversation, though it isn't unheard of.

However, I don't know of any high profile jumper ever declining an invitation to participate or be sponsored by SD Dubai due to their host country's reputation.

(If I understand correctly, the dz and multiple wind tunnels are owned by a prince, so the direct relationship between the country's policies and the DZ is pretty clear--anyone please correct me if that understanding is wrong)


(This post was edited by 3mpire on Jul 11, 2014, 2:49 PM)


virgin-burner

Jul 11, 2014, 2:54 PM
Post #10 of 27 (2484 views)
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Re: [wasatchrider] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

apparently it's "political" and got moderated accordingly.

i see it from an ethical point of view; and i would NOT buy such a product. also, if a company doesnt do much more than copying existing designs while others lay the groundwork, that's another reason to steer away from such a company, even if it's saving you a couple dollars in the short run, in the long run, you as a customer will end up with poorer products.

just something to think about.

i dont like singing praises for something that i dont know all the details about. that is not cool in my books.


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jul 11, 2014, 3:16 PM
Post #11 of 27 (2464 views)
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Re: [3mpire] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

3mpire wrote:
However, I don't know of any high profile jumper ever declining an invitation to participate or be sponsored by SD Dubai due to their host country's reputation.

I do, but since it's third hand info I won't post names as I've never independently verified the info.


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jul 11, 2014, 3:38 PM
Post #12 of 27 (2429 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do, but since it's third hand info I won't post names as I've never independently verified the info.

that's cool, but also a bummer--nobody is ashamed to be on the cover of a magazine or in a tv commercial jumping from their planes or covered in their logos, but others are ashamed or unwilling to say they WON'T do so because they don't want to lend legitimacy to a country that has such human rights baggage.


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jul 11, 2014, 3:42 PM
Post #13 of 27 (2417 views)
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Re: [3mpire] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

3mpire wrote:
Quote:
I do, but since it's third hand info I won't post names as I've never independently verified the info.

that's cool, but also a bummer--nobody is ashamed to be on the cover of a magazine or in a tv commercial jumping from their planes or covered in their logos, but others are ashamed or unwilling to say they WON'T do so because they don't want to lend legitimacy to a country that has such human rights baggage.

I have no idea how this person feels about it; I heard through the grapevine that the offer had been turned down and why, so it wasn't kept secret. But at the same time, how people act about politics and social issues varies. Some people are very willing to become the poster child for a cause, and others are more quiet in their statements. To each their own, but to say the person is "ashamed and unwilling" is jumping pretty far in assigning motive, don't you think?


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Jul 11, 2014, 8:42 PM)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jul 11, 2014, 4:08 PM
Post #14 of 27 (2394 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
To each their own, but to say the person is "ashamed and unwilling" is jumping pretty far in assigning motive, don't you think?

Absolutely--that's a fair point.

I wasn't speaking about individuals, and I suppose there is an implicit value judgement in what I said that isn't fair.

Everyone has different motives and reasons for speaking out publicly or choosing to take a personal stand based on morality without then putting the other party on blast.

It is more of a general observation, I suppose, that many high profile people support the DZ and an unknown and comparatively quiet number don't.

Personally, I can't keep an opinion to myself if I think something isn't right. It doesn't always win friends, and sometimes you're the only one publicly taking the other side, but it's just how I'm wired. I don't hold it against people if that's not how they operate


Iago  (D License)

Jul 11, 2014, 5:04 PM
Post #15 of 27 (2334 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

I started working when I was 11, so yes I would buy.


Maksimsf  (B 37743)

Jul 11, 2014, 8:09 PM
Post #16 of 27 (2215 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately these kids do not have many choices - Honduras, South Africa or Vietnam. If they will be prohibited sewing mains, reserves or wingsuits - most likely they will ended up in the sex market... What about Foxconn Technology Group? Lets talk about an Iphone? Is it ethical to have one? One company copied from another? Well that makes most H/C manufacturers, but Sunpath and UPT copycats? By the way - do you have a proof that some "wingsuit manufacturer" employs children? I don't see a problem if company treat their underage employees fair. What about major canopy manufacturer that makes most of their products somewhere in Central America? Do you have a first hand info of who works there?


(This post was edited by Maksimsf on Jul 11, 2014, 8:29 PM)


wstcstcmtr  (B 40200)

Jul 11, 2014, 10:14 PM
Post #17 of 27 (2137 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Andy9o8 wrote:
In reply to:
Nobody ever really mentions that the UAE has a horrible human rights record, and that many of the buildings in the background of all those SD Dubai shots were build by migrants held captive and in deplorable conditions.

In fairness, a number of us have mentioned just that in other threads on here. That (what you said), plus the fact that if you as a tourist get caught up in their their byzantine legal system you are so, so majorly fucked. I really can't see myself ever spending my tourist or skydiving dollars in Dubai (and possibly Thailand, too, for example), and these are the reasons why.
What's the problem with Thailand?


Doug_Davis  (B 40488)

Jul 11, 2014, 11:19 PM
Post #18 of 27 (2108 views)
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Re: [wstcstcmtr] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

wstcstcmtr wrote:
What's the problem with Thailand?

Laugh http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/.../0/0c/Its_a_trap.jpg


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jul 11, 2014, 11:57 PM
Post #19 of 27 (2088 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

virgin-burner wrote:
apparently it's "political" and got moderated accordingly.

i see it from an ethical point of view; and i would NOT buy such a product. also, if a company doesnt do much more than copying existing designs while others lay the groundwork, that's another reason to steer away from such a company, even if it's saving you a couple dollars in the short run, in the long run, you as a customer will end up with poorer products.

just something to think about.

i dont like singing praises for something that i dont know all the details about. that is not cool in my books.

Are you talking about the various Pakistani operations that sell cheap knock offs of better known brand skydiving apparel?


danornan  (D 11308)

Jul 12, 2014, 4:32 AM
Post #20 of 27 (2004 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's all a matter of degrees... Very few are pure!


GD64

Jul 12, 2014, 7:21 AM
Post #21 of 27 (1939 views)
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Re: [danornan] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

So true!
We all have to make our own call on this issue, and live with it.
The "globalist" are currently winning.


virgin-burner

Jul 12, 2014, 7:58 AM
Post #22 of 27 (1912 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Arvoitus wrote:
virgin-burner wrote:
apparently it's "political" and got moderated accordingly.

i see it from an ethical point of view; and i would NOT buy such a product. also, if a company doesnt do much more than copying existing designs while others lay the groundwork, that's another reason to steer away from such a company, even if it's saving you a couple dollars in the short run, in the long run, you as a customer will end up with poorer products.

just something to think about.

i dont like singing praises for something that i dont know all the details about. that is not cool in my books.

Are you talking about the various Pakistani operations that sell cheap knock offs of better known brand skydiving apparel?

nope, i'm talking about a "reputable" manufacturer..


DHemer  (B License)

Jul 13, 2014, 10:29 PM
Post #23 of 27 (1442 views)
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Re: [Maksimsf] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maksimsf wrote:
Unfortunately these kids do not have many choices - Honduras, South Africa or Vietnam. If they will be prohibited sewing mains, reserves or wingsuits - most likely they will ended up in the sex market...quote]

As a side point, having been in the aerodyne factory there were no kids to be seen. We have far too many unemployed adults for kids to be doing the work in most cases Unsure


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 14, 2014, 6:26 AM
Post #24 of 27 (1253 views)
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Re: [wstcstcmtr] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What's the problem with Thailand?

Well, the recent coup and the country's sketchy human rights record have me concerned.

Of course I recognize that, especially nowadays with such a global economy, it's not practically possible to keep all one's money and purchases out of the pockets or economies of other countries' governments that I object to, but to the extent I can do some selective avoidance, I try to.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Jul 14, 2014, 6:30 AM)


piisfish

Jul 14, 2014, 7:11 AM
Post #25 of 27 (1190 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] should work ethics in buying skydiving gear matter? [In reply to] Can't Post

virgin-burner wrote:
nope, i'm talking about a "reputable" manufacturer..
so who would that be ?


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