Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Video tandem requirements

 


Luza  (D 62001)

Jul 2, 2014, 4:49 AM
Post #1 of 11 (5538 views)
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Video tandem requirements Can't Post

I'm looking into requirements for video tandem jumpers(VT). I'm a Norwegian skydiver and in Norway we have some requirements that I would like to change.
I know this is different around the world, but I would like to get inputs on what you belive the requirements should be. I would love to hear what your country og DZ is doing, wnd if you know; why.

Requirements could be minimum number of jumps, training program etc

In Norway this is the requirements for VT-license
- c-license (200 jumps, required before jumping with camera)
- minimum 50 jumps with camera filming RW
- minimum 20 of these 50 filmed on level as a tandem would be
- 20 films presented at a VT-seminar
- VT seminar held by experienced VT jumper and instructor 1 that is or has been tandem master

In my opinion things are in reverse order and does not ensure the safe and skillfull VT-jumper we want. I belive you should first attend some kind of seminar, then do some training while getting feedback and then do some examination jumps.
Todays solution does not take the jumpers experience into account. A freeflyer with 1000 jumps and hundres of camerajumps will (in most cases) need less training than a inexperienced jumper just reaching 200 jumps. A belly flyer with 1000 bellyjumps and no camerajumps will also need another kind of training.

The goal for the training should be to educate a safe VT-jumper that creates decent quality videos/photos.

As a TM og VT, what have you done or seen that have been scary? Incidents or almost incidents? What could have been done to prevent this? In your opinion, what is VTs missing when they start filming tandems? Some kind of skills (jumping, camerawork, whatever), understanding of tandem, attitude?


Harald
Trondheim, Norway


Please don't turn this into a discussion about payment for VTs, if this should be regulated by the USPA or DZ's or whatever;)


ridebmxbikes  (D 33588)

Jul 2, 2014, 5:45 AM
Post #2 of 11 (5399 views)
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Re: [Luza] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

The dz i jump at requires a 500 jump minimum to chase a tandem and experience using a camera. When i started the s&ta had a talk with me about flying around tandems and hand signals, made me go with him for evaluation and i also talked to other vt's about the slot i needed to fly. After the s&ta thought i was safe and a conservative flyer around tandems they let me put my camera back on so i could get criticed. i never really concentrated on filming specifically doing rw but did fly a camera a lot. Flying a tandem video slot is a lot different than an rw slot. As long as you are use to flying a camera and know the dangers of them. A seminar wouldve been cool but how much would that cost a new perspective vt. Just make sure he qualifies, talk to him about tandem safety, have him talk to other vidiots, and just take it one step at a time.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jul 3, 2014, 12:29 AM
Post #3 of 11 (5169 views)
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Re: [Luza] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen more scary video from freeflyers than from RW flyers. Including from 1000+ jump (exceptionally) talented jumpers.
I've seen 200+ jumpers learning to video fly using tandems (that was soon put a stop to though).
Generally I'd trust the bellyflyer with 1000 jumps and no (outside) camera experience more than the freeflyer with 1000 jumps and plenty of video flying.


Jacked  (D 31319)

Jul 3, 2014, 3:00 PM
Post #4 of 11 (4962 views)
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Re: [Luza] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

 The Manufactures of the Tandem gear that your TM's hold their rating through requires min 500 jumps. If you are planning on holding a training program be sure you follow all the manufactures guidelines just for liability issues...
Times have changed just in the past 5 or 6 years regarding cameras because of the POV's.
Safety is paramount followed by a good quality product and anyone reading themselves to capture someones first skydive needs to have proved themselves before they hire on thats for sure.
There is a lot you can teach a willing skydiver that has the right reasons for doing what they want to do and " free jumps " is not a good reason. In my experience those are the worst in any field or rating that generates money...
You are heading down the right track, You have already done more than some places I know, Good on ya...


Laszloimage  (D 22468)

Jul 4, 2014, 6:21 PM
Post #5 of 11 (4806 views)
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Re: [dragon2] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree.

For everybody:
UPT (used to be Relative Workshop) requires 500RW jumps to go chase/do relative work with a tandem. Addition to that 100 camera jumps to video a tandem. So it means 500 RW + 100 camera jump required to film a tandem!
By some reason this part of the tandem manufacturer's REQUIREMENT is ignored a lot, while it is just as serius as geting a tandem rating!
Further more here in the US tandem skydiving is regulated by the FAA (FAR Part 105) which clearly requires to comply with the tandem system manufacturer's standards and requirements. This means (now I can only talk about UPT's Sigma system) if a 150 jumps wonder goes out with a tandem here in the US is a violation of Federal Aviation Regulations!
I still need to look up Strong's rules (I can't exactly remember them) but they are similar too.


mike_sketo  (C 6789)

Jul 19, 2016, 2:56 PM
Post #6 of 11 (2038 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

You make pretty good videographer also if u have just finished your aff but you have 50hrs in a windtunnel ... Safety comes FIRST and a tunnel rat docks more precise in most aspects of flying your body than any talent with 1000jumps.


skytribe  (D 9403)

Jul 19, 2016, 4:33 PM
Post #7 of 11 (1980 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking in the current Strong Enterprise TICC Syllabus - Revision O
"Videographer Requirement Minimum Experience
500 RW jumps with 100 camera jumps. A currency requirement of 100 jumps from the previous year, or 300 jumps and has passed the air skills of a USPA coach course."

Wings tandem
"Camera flyers bring the amazing experience of a skydive back to a student. The student will show the jump experience to untold numbers of others. But by sharing the air with a tandem pair, a camera flyer holds great responsibility for the safety of the jump. The camera flyer
must possess a minimum of experience:
-Have at least 100 camera jumps, and
-Hold a current AFF-I or Tandem-I rating, or
-300 jumps, and passed air skills of a USPA Coach Course, or
-500 total formation skydive (FS) jumps, and 100 FS jumps in the past year. "

"Often, you will have an experienced skydiver ask to lurk your tandem jump. Having a friend or loved one along in freefall can greatly enhance the experience for your student. But adding
another person near you and your student increases the risk of the jump. Manage the risk by following these guidelines:
The jumper joining the tandem skydive must have a minimum experience:
-Hold a current AFF-I or Tandem-I rating, or
-300 jumps, and passed air skills of a USPA Coach Course, or
-500 total formation skydive (FS) jumps, and 100 FS jumps in the past year.
The above are minimum guidelines for the tandem instructor to evaluate the jumper who wants to join the tandem pair. Never allow yourself to bend to pressure to have someone in freefall with you. When in doubt, say no. "


I agree that often instructors or DZO's turn a blind eye to these requirements. The fact they are referred to as guidelines I believe makes people think they are optional.


Laszloimage  (D 22468)

Jul 24, 2016, 6:03 PM
Post #8 of 11 (1639 views)
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Re: [mike_sketo] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

Wind tunnels are fantastic traing tools. But real skydiving is different since you are falling through the air ( pulled by gravity) vs. floating on an air stream ( wind tunnel). This means there are different dynamics of movment ( read into Newton's laws of physics).
But most importantly besides flying skills a proper mental atidue towards skydiving/student operation is the most in order to film tandems!
That comes from actual jumping!


hackish  (No License)

Aug 23, 2016, 10:12 AM
Post #9 of 11 (964 views)
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Re: Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

Things have changed a lot since I started. I think I had started training around 160ish jumps. This was out of a 182 at a very small DZ and without a camera. It was to learn how to fly the slot first. After a dozen or so jumps like that I got a camera helmet without any cameras. One day out of the blue the instructor handed me his camera helmet and said you're filming this one for real. That started my video career.

I'm not saying this is the best way to do things. I did about 40 practice jumps and everyone felt I was ready. Looking back, I'm thinking the 300-500 jumps point would have been more appropriate. I didn't really know what I was doing back then.

In a way it's like driving a vehicle, everyone thinks they're a great driver until the crash happens. Was I lucky that my bag of experience got some filling without any incidents? Maybe. Experience and ongoing (driving and skydiving) training both reduce your risk.

-Michael


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Aug 23, 2016, 5:46 PM
Post #10 of 11 (872 views)
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Re: [hackish] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting ....... Smile


keithbar  (A 14048)

Aug 23, 2016, 6:27 PM
Post #11 of 11 (855 views)
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Re: [mike_sketo] Video tandem requirements [In reply to] Can't Post

mike_sketo wrote:
You make pretty good videographer also if u have just finished your aff but you have 50hrs in a windtunnel ... Safety comes FIRST and a tunnel rat docks more precise in most aspects of flying your body than any talent with 1000jumps.
. IMHO as a videographer you should not be docking on a tandem pair. You need to be deep steep and filling the frame with the students face. But I freely admit I'm rarely satisfied with my ongoing struggle to accomplish this.Tongue



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