Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Skyhook Video

 

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Toolface180  (D 9202)

Jun 19, 2014, 1:04 AM
Post #1 of 42 (10178 views)
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Skyhook Video Can't Post

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rCkM9FX2Sdo

Skyhook working nicely while I was spinning on my back. Worth going through the first 20 secs frame by frame.


christelsabine  (D 10828)

Jun 19, 2014, 1:47 AM
Post #2 of 42 (10112 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Toolface180 wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rCkM9FX2Sdo

Skyhook working nicely while I was spinning on my back. Worth going through the first 20 secs frame by frame.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 19, 2014, 5:00 AM
Post #3 of 42 (9961 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

And about 12 seconds after reserve deployment to get out of the line twists.

Just noting the point for those who keep saying they used the Skyhook and don't get reserve twists, implying that the Skyhook is, like so super duper fast and cool that you don't get twists.

Well, fine, often one doesn't get twists, but sometimes it does happen.

A few harmless reserve twists may be a lot better than opening hundreds of feet lower with no RSL. But I did want to point out that a Skyhook isn't a magical guarantee of no line twists on the reserve.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jun 19, 2014, 9:28 AM
Post #4 of 42 (9714 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Love how well you've matched your hair color to your reserve! Now that's talent!! Tongue

Oh yeah, and nice save too, BTW.
Thanks for posting!


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 19, 2014, 1:44 PM
Post #5 of 42 (9520 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Toolface180 wrote:
Skyhook working nicely while I was spinning on my back. Worth going through the first 20 secs frame by frame.

So where is the freebag ?! That's what I want to know.
Also the distance between the main risers and the top of your reserve is a lot more than 9 ft.
Are you sure that you've had a MARD deployment ?

Cheers

ETA: Never mind, I saw the freebag the frame before. You've had a nice RSL deployment Wink
ETA 2: the second picture.

So tell us again how well the skyhook worked for you Cool


(This post was edited by Deyan on Jun 19, 2014, 2:03 PM)
Attachments: skyhook.jpg (106 KB)
  RSL.jpg (50.4 KB)


JackC1

Jun 19, 2014, 2:16 PM
Post #6 of 42 (9458 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah, that was a skyhook deployment. 3 consecutive frames

pic 1: RSL shackle
pic 2: RSL being pulled
pic 3: skyhook pulling reserve bridle

Blink and you miss it.
Attachments: Capture1.JPG (23.1 KB)
  Capture2a.JPG (23.5 KB)
  Capture3.JPG (21.2 KB)


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 19, 2014, 2:22 PM
Post #7 of 42 (9440 views)
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Re: [JackC1] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
Nah, that was a skyhook deployment. 3 consecutive frames

pic 1: RSL shackle
pic 2: RSL being pulled
pic 3: skyhook pulling reserve bridle

Blink and you miss it.

I saw all that. Just because the skyhook started the deployment, it doesn't mean that it didn't disconnect half way.

Normal RSL deployment- as fast as the skyhook, but 250 $ cheaper Laugh


JackC1

Jun 19, 2014, 2:27 PM
Post #8 of 42 (9423 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Since there are no photos of it disconnecting during deployment, you have no way of knowing that. Guess all you like, means nothing.


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 19, 2014, 2:47 PM
Post #9 of 42 (9385 views)
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Re: [JackC1] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

JackC1 wrote:
Since there are no photos of it disconnecting during deployment, you have no way of knowing that. Guess all you like, means nothing.

My second pictures shows exactly the same. An inflated RPC with the bridle stretched under, much closer to the reserve than to the main. Care to explain how that would happen if the skyhook completed the deployment? It's not what I believe, it's what I see.


JohnnyMarko

Jun 19, 2014, 3:51 PM
Post #10 of 42 (9300 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

What the hell did the Skyhook ever do to you? ....geeesh


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 19, 2014, 4:41 PM
Post #11 of 42 (9246 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnnyMarko wrote:
What the hell did the Skyhook ever do to you? ....geeesh

Actually nothing. It's not the skyhook itself that I'm against. It's a safety system like any other. It might work and it might fail. It might save your life or kill you.

What I'm against is all the misinformation that's behind it. For example that it fails only once every 500 times. Or the promo video where they show 100 ft cutaway with a slider down. I know what slider down is, and I'm sure you know as well, but the average 20 jumps wonder has no idea what that means. All they see is:" Oh cool, It makes chopping low much safer" [ a real quote].
Or that it happens so fast, you can't get twists on your reserve.

Have you ever talked to a jumper who was told by the manufacturer that his 250 $ safety system didn't work because might have been misrigged instead of :" Oh well, sometimes it just happens and we still don't know why or how to fix it"?
Or to a jumper who will never jump an RSL, but he will never jump without a skyhook either believing that it will never fail?

I'm all for whatever choice you make, as long as it's based on knowledge and not on wrong or not enough information.

Does that answer your question?

Just look at the OP. He thought that his skyhook worked fine. He even was so happy that he decided to share his experience with us on his Beer! post on this forum. And of course there's a slight chance that I'm wrong and his skyhook did work fine and what I see is not what happened.
It's all about educating people and helping them see beyond the marketing. That's all.

P.S. I don't work for any manufacturer and I don't have any financial benefit of people buying or not buying a skyhook.


Alexg3265  (C 42218)

Jun 21, 2014, 12:06 PM
Post #12 of 42 (8823 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Of the 6 cutaways I've helped look for that had skyhooks, on every one, the free bag, bridle and rpc were still hanging on by the skyhook. One was sitting right next to the tree that the main was in. The stills do seem to show a separation. When I first watched the video, my initial reaction was huh, that seemed a little slow for a skyhook... So did you find the freebag at all?
Nice save though!


flyhi  (D License)

Jun 22, 2014, 4:07 AM
Post #13 of 42 (8596 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

You're alive. Good choices. Nicely done.

No problem finding the LZ out there, is it?


Toolface180  (D 9202)

Jun 22, 2014, 1:50 PM
Post #14 of 42 (8381 views)
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Re: [flyhi] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

I got everything back allright but the freebag separated from the main. We thought it was unusual but I didn't realise the skyhook came off before the reserve was fully deployed. At the time all I remember was punching the reserve handle very hard as soon as I felt something give.

Thanks for comments. I thought it was an interesting video as I was on my back for most of the crucial part.


maggyrider

Jun 23, 2014, 3:43 AM
Post #15 of 42 (8186 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

I got a nice capture from the video where you can actually see the skyhook in action. I seems like the hook itself is in a bit of a strange position and the main could have been disconnected from it while deployment - therefore (IMO) no complete skyhook resevere deployment. See the attached picture for more information.

What I think is more disturbing is the emergency procedure itself. It seems like cutaway and reserve handly are pulled simultaniously (or the concerned skydiver has faster reactions than Lucky Luke) - in the video you can see the reserve handle already in the left hand of the jumper only fractions of a second after the main goes away or more specifically instantly after he moves his head down. I cannot say for sure if this has something to do with the assumed skyhook disconnection (reserve pilot chut beeing faster than the cutaway main) but I think this could be a possible explanation.
Attachments: Skyhook.PNG (452 KB)


wicodefly  (C License)

Jun 23, 2014, 8:26 PM
Post #16 of 42 (7920 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info, it's helpful.

Can you tell me more about the 100 ft. cut away slider down? I'm not sure what that means and want to learn more.

I'm guessing that would make the reserve deploy faster?

Thanks!


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 24, 2014, 12:02 AM
Post #17 of 42 (7819 views)
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Re: [wicodefly] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

wicodefly wrote:
Can you tell me more about the 100 ft. cut away slider down? I'm not sure what that means and want to learn more.

I'm guessing that would make the reserve deploy faster?

Thanks!

Watch starting at 11:25 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WBBLAgE_s


maggyrider

Jun 24, 2014, 12:14 AM
Post #18 of 42 (7814 views)
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Re: [wicodefly] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

I think what he was talking about can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/...?v=z-WBBLAgE_s#t=690 (starts at 11:30)

I understand Deyan's point as putting this clip into a "promotional" video suggests much faster (like "allowing a cutaway in 100 ft."-faster) reserve openings when using a skyhook while in this clip the (main) reason for surviving was the slider-down packing. Under real circumstances packing with your slider down would not make any sense because every not completely slow malfunction could kill or at least seriously injure you and therefore you would also not survive a 100 ft. cutaway no matter if with or without skyhook.


(This post was edited by maggyrider on Jun 24, 2014, 12:15 AM)


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 24, 2014, 12:50 PM
Post #19 of 42 (7598 views)
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Re: [maggyrider] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

maggyrider wrote:
I think what he was talking about can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/...?v=z-WBBLAgE_s#t=690 (starts at 11:30)

I understand Deyan's point as putting this clip into a "promotional" video suggests much faster (like "allowing a cutaway in 100 ft."-faster) reserve openings when using a skyhook while in this clip the (main) reason for surviving was the slider-down packing. Under real circumstances packing with your slider down would not make any sense because every not completely slow malfunction could kill or at least seriously injure you and therefore you would also not survive a 100 ft. cutaway no matter if with or without skyhook.

Exactly my point. You can even hear Bill's comment:" Even with the slider UP, these guys would've made it" Crazy
I don't think so!


turkeyphant  (B 111016)

Jun 24, 2014, 5:03 PM
Post #20 of 42 (7433 views)
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Re: [maggyrider] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

maggyrider wrote:
What I think is more disturbing is the emergency procedure itself. It seems like cutaway and reserve handly are pulled simultaniously (or the concerned skydiver has faster reactions than Lucky Luke) - in the video you can see the reserve handle already in the left hand of the jumper only fractions of a second after the main goes away or more specifically instantly after he moves his head down.

I noticed that too and commented on the video. Doesn't seem wise or a recommended EP.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 24, 2014, 6:25 PM
Post #21 of 42 (7401 views)
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Re: [turkeyphant] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Nearly simultaneous punch on the handles is not unusual, I think. An RSL doesn't wait to confirm that both risers have released.


linebckr83  (D 30571)

Jun 25, 2014, 7:13 AM
Post #22 of 42 (7172 views)
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Re: [Toolface180] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Was the red skyhook lanyard hand tacked to the bridle like the manual says to do? In maggyrider's screen grab, it sure doesn't look like it is. It is there to prevent the lanyard from slipping off the skyhook during a cutaway. That would explain the skyhook activation followed by a PC deployment.


(This post was edited by linebckr83 on Jun 25, 2014, 7:15 AM)


Deyan  (D 322)

Jun 25, 2014, 11:40 AM
Post #23 of 42 (7022 views)
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Re: [linebckr83] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

linebckr83 wrote:
Was the red skyhook lanyard hand tacked to the bridle like the manual says to do? In maggyrider's screen grab, it sure doesn't look like it is. It is there to prevent the lanyard from slipping off the skyhook during a cutaway. That would explain the skyhook activation followed by a PC deployment.

The picture shows a skyhook made from blue aluminum which indicates that this is actually a Skyhook 2. Skyhook 2 doesn't require tacking trough the bridle.
Please check Vector 3 manual MAN-004, Rev 1 page 26 for reference.

Cheers


sundevil777  (D License)

Jun 25, 2014, 2:44 PM
Post #24 of 42 (6939 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Deyan wrote:
linebckr83 wrote:
Was the red skyhook lanyard hand tacked to the bridle like the manual says to do? In maggyrider's screen grab, it sure doesn't look like it is. It is there to prevent the lanyard from slipping off the skyhook during a cutaway. That would explain the skyhook activation followed by a PC deployment.

The picture shows a skyhook made from blue aluminum which indicates that this is actually a Skyhook 2. Skyhook 2 doesn't require tacking trough the bridle.
Please check Vector 3 manual MAN-004, Rev 1 page 26 for reference.

Cheers

I don't remember the change, I wonder if the change is actually an improvement? Of course it got tested...but...


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 25, 2014, 3:19 PM
Post #25 of 42 (6903 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Skyhook Video [In reply to] Can't Post

All Skyhooks get tacked with seal thread.

Just that early on it went through the bridle, while later it would go through holes in clear plastic plates on either side of the metal hook device, to keep the tacking in the right location.


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