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Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again?

 


grue  (D License)

Apr 19, 2014, 2:10 AM
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Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? Can't Post

As per topic, curious as to those who have both ratings, which you would get first if you had to do it again, and why.

Starting to look at getting my ratings later this year if all goes well, and curious which I should tackle first. I'm not (yet) ready to go full time in the industry, but would like to be able to generate side income while still being able to do fun jumps.

Reflexively I lean more towards AFFI due to the fact I'd get to teach, which I enjoy, and I like jumping with new jumpers when I get the chance because it's awesome to see people learn.

On the other hand, tandem instructors seem to get paid better, at least from what I'm seeing/hearing at the cost of not getting to fun jump very often.

Further, none of that even takes into account which rating is harder to get?


(This post was edited by grue on Apr 19, 2014, 2:40 AM)


theonlyski  (D License)

Apr 19, 2014, 5:27 AM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I earned my AFF-I rating first, but the other two people in the course with me were already T-Is. One of them had a lot of trouble because he was comfortable with doing tandems and they didn't keep him on his toes flying.

AFF-I was a much more difficult rating for me. When I went to the T-I rating course, I was already an AFF-I and basically only had to worry about the tandem specific portions of the course.

That being said, if you're looking for money, I've never been on back to back to back to back loads all day doing AFF jumps. I have done it doing tandems.


Tink1717  (D 12524)

Apr 19, 2014, 12:59 PM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't get either rating. Just get a riggers ticket if you must be in the business. The income is much more steady and the long term growth is better. Otherwise, just be in the sport for the sports sake.


Deisel  (D 31661)

Apr 19, 2014, 6:13 PM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

AFFI requires more skill than TI. Which is interesting considering that tandems are more dangerous. But that's a topic for another day. One thing to consider is that once you have a tandem rating, you will spend most of your time doing tandems. Finding the time to work on your AFF skill set will be a challenge.

A tandem rating can pay for the AFFI rating. But if you do tandem first you may never acquire the skills needed for AFFI. I did AFFI first and would probably keep it that way.


Melissa126  (D 33235)

Apr 21, 2014, 8:25 AM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I got my AFFI rating first, but this was after tons of RW and actively working as a coach for awhile for my dz. Then I started actively working as a tandem videographer, which I really think helped me with the TI rating... I recently got my tandem rating and did not find it as difficult but definitely consider it more 'work'. Depending on where you plan on working you may be able to request which you'd like to do as your primary function, and then use the other as needed. Doing it all over I'd still do it the same. SmileSmileSmile


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Apr 21, 2014, 9:17 AM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I was a Static Line instructor first, then tried (and failed) to get my AFF rating when I had about 800 jumps (but did not practice at all), then I got my tandem rating, then I went back and got my AFF rating.

If you are going to be a working skydiver and you want to get your ratings in as quick a time as possible (assuming you put in the right practice work) then you would clearly get your AFF ticket first because you don't have to have three years in the sport and 500 jumps to qualify. The guy that posted that he would just get his rigger ticket has a good point though. Having a rigger ticket will keep you fed when you injure yourself or the weather sucks.

Chuck


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Apr 21, 2014, 11:23 AM
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Re: [Deisel] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Deisel wrote:
AFFI requires more skill than TI.
Agree. I first got my AFF rating in 1983. I hadn't even heard of tandem jumping yet. It was the toughest rating I've ever gotten. Unfortunately, I later moved to a S/L only DZ and my rating eventually lapsed.

Got my tandem rating in 1992. Hardly broke a sweat doing it. Just arch and remember which order you pull the handles.Cool

Finally took the entire AFF-I rating course again about 5-6 years ago. Once again, another week of hard work and doubt. LaughLaugh I never want to take that stupid class again.


grue  (D License)

Apr 21, 2014, 5:04 PM
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Re: [theonlyski] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
theonlyski wrote:
I earned my AFF-I rating first, but the other two people in the course with me were already T-Is. One of them had a lot of trouble because he was comfortable with doing tandems and they didn't keep him on his toes flying.

AFF-I was a much more difficult rating for me. When I went to the T-I rating course, I was already an AFF-I and basically only had to worry about the tandem specific portions of the course.

That being said, if you're looking for money, I've never been on back to back to back to back loads all day doing AFF jumps. I have done it doing tandems.

That's fair enough. I feel like I see our AFF instructors jumping for fun, but the TIs well, they might do one fun jump at the end of the day. Might. Hell, as a packer I get more fun jumps in than they do! The money is more of a "It'd be nice to make some on the side" thing than a "I want to do this for a living right now" thing, I suppose.


grue  (D License)

Apr 21, 2014, 5:05 PM
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Re: [Melissa126] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Melissa126 wrote:
I got my AFFI rating first, but this was after tons of RW and actively working as a coach for awhile for my dz. Then I started actively working as a tandem videographer, which I really think helped me with the TI rating... I recently got my tandem rating and did not find it as difficult but definitely consider it more 'work'. Depending on where you plan on working you may be able to request which you'd like to do as your primary function, and then use the other as needed. Doing it all over I'd still do it the same. SmileSmileSmile

Cool Video is a good call, too, I've gotta consider that.


grue  (D License)

Apr 21, 2014, 5:07 PM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

SkymonkeyONE wrote:
If you are going to be a working skydiver and you want to get your ratings in as quick a time as possible (assuming you put in the right practice work) then you would clearly get your AFF ticket first because you don't have to have three years in the sport and 500 jumps to qualify.

Chuck

Yeah, I think once I'm back stateside I'm gonna book an hour or two of tunnel time and get coaching aimed at developing any skills I'll need as an AFFI that I'm not yet ready for. I haven't really done all that much belly flying in my time in sport, so I've gotta work on it a bit and I'll readily admit it Laugh


grue  (D License)

Apr 21, 2014, 5:07 PM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnMitchell wrote:
Deisel wrote:
AFFI requires more skill than TI.
Agree. I first got my AFF rating in 1983. I hadn't even heard of tandem jumping yet. It was the toughest rating I've ever gotten. Unfortunately, I later moved to a S/L only DZ and my rating eventually lapsed.

Got my tandem rating in 1992. Hardly broke a sweat doing it. Just arch and remember which order you pull the handles.Cool

Finally took the entire AFF-I rating course again about 5-6 years ago. Once again, another week of hard work and doubt. LaughLaugh I never want to take that stupid class again.

LaughLaugh


grue  (D License)

Apr 21, 2014, 5:09 PM
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Re: [Tink1717] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tink1717 wrote:
If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't get either rating. Just get a riggers ticket if you must be in the business. The income is much more steady and the long term growth is better. Otherwise, just be in the sport for the sports sake.

I did consider going the rigger path, but the biggest problem for me would be space, or more accurately the lack thereof. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere besides my parents' house that has enough space to do a canopy inspection and repack for a large canopy. I can just barely pack my 190 in my apartment and that's with the rig in one room and the lines going across the hall into another. Once I move back to the US, that might change but will very much depend on my day job and realistically I don't foresee a house in my near future unless I live in bumblefuck east, where I wouldn't have anyone to pack for anyway Laugh

Not to mention: pets!

That said, I won't rule it out.


(This post was edited by grue on Apr 21, 2014, 5:09 PM)


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Apr 22, 2014, 8:09 AM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
but the biggest problem for me would be space, or more accurately the lack thereof. I don't think I've ever lived anywhere besides my parents' house that has enough space to do a canopy inspection and repack for a large canopy.

There is some truth in that. How many "at home" working riggers truly work in a space big enough to fit the "required" 3' x 40' flat, snag-free table? That said, most dropzones I've been to DO have enough space to meet the requirements for a "certified loft".

Chuck


steveorino  (D 26782)

Apr 22, 2014, 3:39 PM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I got my TI in '06 and AFFI in '08. I trie dot get my AFFI first but I guess I wasn't good enough. I know throwing a drogue all day will diminish some flying skills. so I'd get AFF first. It about kicked my but at age 53. The tandem at age 51 was a piece of cake.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Apr 23, 2014, 6:36 PM
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Re: [grue] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was a Coach for about a year before I decided to go for the AFFI rating. It was definetely more challenging than the TI rating. I got my AFFI rating at 460 jumps. Very challenging, although the ground prep/teaching part was a lock because i had been doing it for a year according to the SIM as a Coach. After spending 6 months as an AFFi, with students trying to kill me routinely, tandems were a less difficult program. But I will say,that I now have no fear on an AFF jump. Tandems . . . they scare the shit out of me, every time, because you never know what kind of knucklehead you will be attached to. If an AFF student goes spastic, you just pull them and worry about it later.


tonyhays  (D 26336)

Apr 24, 2014, 1:05 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Got my tandem rating in 1992. Hardly broke a sweat doing it. Just arch and remember which order you pull the handles.Cool

Compared to the AFF rating back then(from all the stories I heard), of course it would be a breeze. These days it's a 'pay your money, get your rating' for both tandem and AFF. I've filmed numerous AFF course pre- and live jumps, as well as been on numerous rides on the front for tandem candidates. The AFF jumps weren't challenging, and the TI candidates didn't have a clue as to what the can really expect out of an out of control student(I showed them otherwiseSmile)!

And as far as "just arch", I sure as hell wouldn't do that to a tandem student that was doing the classic "pike" position!


ShotterMG  (Student)

Apr 24, 2014, 8:28 AM
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Re: [fencebuster] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I truly believe if you're scared every time you should quit doing tandems. TM's should be comfortable and without fear. No one is trying to kill you. That kind of attitude is self manifesting and will get you into trouble. Just fly your body. It's easy. No reason to be scared and it's a disservice to the student to have to jump with a TI who is scared shitless.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Apr 24, 2014, 10:07 AM
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Re: [ShotterMG] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I get it; but the student doesn't know it and fear is a good motivator for me. I tend to do my best when under pressure. I really havn't had any sketchy tandem jumps even with the ones who pike instead of arch or otherwise try to induce instability. Sooner or later, they'll become routine for me, just like AFF. In the meantime, I have a helthy respect for the dangers.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Aug 22, 2014, 11:09 AM
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

I did a lot of rigging in my apt. Rounds at the dz. But my 1000 sq ft house had a 42' basement. When we shopped for our.current house all the realtors in town knew us as the.couple that needed a 40' basement. Wink Ended up with room for 60' of temporary table and second 40' table. And room for 9 or 10 sewing machines.

A full inspection can be done on floor in flat pack layout. And getting a rating is the first step to building a shop, home or otherwise.


(This post was edited by councilman24 on Aug 22, 2014, 11:10 AM)


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Aug 23, 2014, 6:21 AM
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Re: [tonyhays] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
These days it's a 'pay your money, get your rating' for both tandem and AFF. I've filmed numerous AFF course pre- and live jumps, as well as been on numerous rides on the front for tandem candidates. The AFF jumps weren't challenging, and the TI candidates didn't have a clue as to what the can really expect out of an out of control student

It really depends on what examiner you are working with. There are a good number of IEs who will push your skills and prepare you for real life students.

Which to get first rally depends on each persons situation. Like mentioned before video is a great place to start. You get to fly your own body and further your skills while seeing real life examples of what you are preparing for. I highly recommend a lot of 4 way to help you prepare for your AFF-I. 4 way where you are commonly the weak link, this will constantlypuh your skills. AFF-I's who have trained well at 4 way have almost always done well during their course. As an AFF-I you need to have strong slot flying skills and be able to anticipate what your student is doing by reading their body position. During 4 way you are constantly flying slot and evading your partner, both extremely productive for AFF-I.

Good luck with whatever decision you reach.


(This post was edited by djmarvin on Aug 23, 2014, 6:22 AM)


skypuppy  (D 347)

Aug 25, 2014, 9:35 PM
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Re: [Deisel] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

Deisel wrote:
AFFI requires more skill than TI. Which is interesting considering that tandems are more dangerous. But that's a topic for another day. One thing to consider is that once you have a tandem rating, you will spend most of your time doing tandems. Finding the time to work on your AFF skill set will be a challenge.

A tandem rating can pay for the AFFI rating. But if you do tandem first you may never acquire the skills needed for AFFI. I did AFFI first and would probably keep it that way.

Bill Booth would disagree with you that tandems are more dangerous than solo jumps - and he seems to have the stats to back it up. If you don't believe, email him.

Here is what he sent me a couple of years back-


"as I remember: USPA put the solo jumper fatality rate over the last 10 years at something like one in every 80,000 - 100,000 jumps in the US. The tandem fatality rate, over the last 25 years, is around two per year in the entire world. (Or 4, depending on how you count it. Does one tandem jump count as one or two jumps? Is one tandem fatality one or two fatalities?) While I'm not sure how many tandems are made each year in the whole world, I suspect it is well over one million (or 2 million if one tandem jump is counted as two jumps.). Based on these assumptions, the tandem fatality rate is less than one per 500,000 jumps, or 5 times better than the solo rate."


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Aug 26, 2014, 8:34 PM
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Re: [skypuppy] Those of you with AFFI and TI ratings, which did you get first? Would you do it the same way again? [In reply to] Can't Post

You would think that tandems should be statistically MUCH safer than solo jumps. At least if comparing the fatality rate. They are conducted only by proven jumpers, they eliminate the low turn/hook risk, the AAD fires higher, low cutaways are not eliminated, but very rare, in short most of the things that cause fatalities in the sport today are very unlikely.

This is somewhat balanced by the possibly higher main malfunction rate, and the overall higher complexity of the EPs. But these factors can't come close to matching the many inventive ways that solo jumpers have found to kill themselves.

Just spend some time in the incidents forum. Tandem fatalities are not very common.



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