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RSL

 

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davjohns  (B 36948)

Mar 11, 2014, 6:18 AM
Post #1 of 97 (5797 views)
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RSL Can't Post

I just read the incident report in Parachutist where an experienced jumper cut away, but had a delay pulling his reserve until too late.

As a refresher for me, why do people disconnect their RSL? I know it could be preparation for a water landing cutaway. I can see it as preparation to release if your main was caught in lines, tree, etc and you can drop to the ground. Perhaps if you were planning a CRW jump and wanted the chance to get away from people? That one's questionable.

This guy was engaged in a four-way RW before breaking away and opening. Why was his RSL disengaged?

Thanks.

David


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 11, 2014, 6:33 AM
Post #2 of 97 (5733 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Why not use or have an RSL connected?

Because it wasn't cool or considered necessary, because other experienced jumpers didn't use RSL's.
Because for old timers, RSL's were something optional, that gear didn't have unless you special ordered it.
Because you used to be expected to pull both handles yourself or die, and accepted that.
Because you believed you should try to deploy parachutes when stable for the best results.
Because you want the choice of either pulling the reserve immediately, or taking a delay to get more stable.
[Edit:] Because RSL's (without a Collins lanyard, which most did not have) were seen as being a danger in case of riser breakage.(Which hasn't been happening much since the 1990s when ZP canopies with small lines were new on the market.)

Things are changing though.

Landing in very high winds is another reason to disconnect after opening.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Mar 11, 2014, 6:39 AM)


jumplongisland

Mar 11, 2014, 6:44 AM
Post #3 of 97 (5700 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

This is why you jump with an RSL!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TXu6I5Cmw


ridebmxbikes  (D 33588)

Mar 11, 2014, 6:51 AM
Post #4 of 97 (5677 views)
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Re: [jumplongisland] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TXu6I5Cmw


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 11, 2014, 7:13 AM
Post #5 of 97 (5629 views)
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Re: [jumplongisland] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

jumplongisland wrote:
This is why you jump with an RSL!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TXu6I5Cmw

Or, alternatively, you may choose not to dick around like an idiot for ages through multiple diving spirals with a high performance canopy, before deciding you might want to cut away. (Granted, we all get stupid and distracted sometimes, and the jumper was not inexperienced.)


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Mar 11, 2014, 7:17 AM
Post #6 of 97 (5616 views)
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Re: [pchapman] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Or check this...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCZPuc-c_6g

Unimpressed


davjohns  (B 36948)

Mar 11, 2014, 8:38 AM
Post #7 of 97 (5541 views)
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Re: [ridebmxbikes] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

OK. The incident described said the guy had over 6,000 jumps, so he probably was an old timer following the old ways. I was just trying to make sure I understood the lesson to be learned.

What am I seeing in that first video? I am only now assembling my first rig, so I've jumped rental gear to this point. Nobody ever mentioned what to do with a collapsible slider. The first time I found I had a collapsible slider, I secured the brakes, tested that I had a good canopy, then stowed the riser while retaining control of my brakes. It looks like this guy flew a while, stowed his riser...thereby pulling the grommets over his brakes and jamming them, then the rest was history. I'm not positive because the camera doesn't catch whether the one brake is trapped until after he fiddles with the riser.


shift  (B 40686)

Mar 11, 2014, 9:24 AM
Post #8 of 97 (5505 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably already been established, but did the article say it was disconnected? Or did he not have one at all?


Boogers

Mar 11, 2014, 11:00 AM
Post #9 of 97 (5408 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

davjohns wrote:
What am I seeing in that first video? I am only now assembling my first rig, so I've jumped rental gear to this point. Nobody ever mentioned what to do with a collapsible slider. The first time I found I had a collapsible slider, I secured the brakes, tested that I had a good canopy, then stowed the riser while retaining control of my brakes. It looks like this guy flew a while, stowed his riser...thereby pulling the grommets over his brakes and jamming them, then the rest was history. I'm not positive because the camera doesn't catch whether the one brake is trapped until after he fiddles with the riser.

Stow your riser? Huh? Do you mean "slider"?


davjohns  (B 36948)

Mar 11, 2014, 12:06 PM
Post #10 of 97 (5343 views)
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Re: [Boogers] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry. Doing to many things at once. I knew something was wrong, but was having a conversation with someone else at the same time.

You are correct. I was talking about the slider.


davjohns  (B 36948)

Mar 11, 2014, 12:07 PM
Post #11 of 97 (5340 views)
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Re: [shift] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

shift wrote:
Probably already been established, but did the article say it was disconnected? Or did he not have one at all?

I think it said it was disconnected. That's the only reason I brought it up. It was the February issue. I'll double check.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 11, 2014, 12:11 PM
Post #12 of 97 (5333 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

davjohns wrote:
I just read the incident report in Parachutist where an experienced jumper cut away, but had a delay pulling his reserve until too late.

As a refresher for me, why do people disconnect their RSL? I know it could be preparation for a water landing cutaway. I can see it as preparation to release if your main was caught in lines, tree, etc and you can drop to the ground. Perhaps if you were planning a CRW jump and wanted the chance to get away from people? That one's questionable.

This guy was engaged in a four-way RW before breaking away and opening. Why was his RSL disengaged?

Thanks.

David

Re-read the article....he was a she and she was jumping a borrowed canopy that was not compatible with her Skyhook system so it was left unhooked.

Sparky


Southern_Man  (C License)

Mar 11, 2014, 1:28 PM
Post #13 of 97 (5247 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

mjosparky wrote:

Re-read the article....he was a she and she was jumping a borrowed canopy that was not compatible with her Skyhook system so it was left unhooked.

Sparky

I am confused by this explanation? Did the borrowed canopy come or risers? RSL ring not on the same side?


shift  (B 40686)

Mar 11, 2014, 2:41 PM
Post #14 of 97 (5197 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Southern_Man wrote:
I am confused by this explanation? Did the borrowed canopy come or risers? RSL ring not on the same side?

Probably came with risers which did not have RSL loop, or like you said, on the wrong side.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 11, 2014, 3:36 PM
Post #15 of 97 (5112 views)
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Re: [pchapman] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

pchapman wrote:
jumplongisland wrote:
This is why you jump with an RSL!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TXu6I5Cmw

Or, alternatively, you may choose not to dick around like an idiot for ages through multiple diving spirals with a high performance canopy, before deciding you might want to cut away.

Or both.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 11, 2014, 3:38 PM
Post #16 of 97 (5108 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

mjosparky wrote:
davjohns wrote:
I just read the incident report in Parachutist where an experienced jumper cut away, but had a delay pulling his reserve until too late.

As a refresher for me, why do people disconnect their RSL? I know it could be preparation for a water landing cutaway. I can see it as preparation to release if your main was caught in lines, tree, etc and you can drop to the ground. Perhaps if you were planning a CRW jump and wanted the chance to get away from people? That one's questionable.

This guy was engaged in a four-way RW before breaking away and opening. Why was his RSL disengaged?

Thanks.

David

Re-read the article....he was a she and she was jumping a borrowed canopy that was not compatible with her Skyhook system so it was left unhooked.

Sparky

Once again - borrowed gear, borrowed death.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Mar 11, 2014, 3:45 PM
Post #17 of 97 (5084 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Southern_Man wrote:
mjosparky wrote:

Re-read the article....he was a she and she was jumping a borrowed canopy that was not compatible with her Skyhook system so it was left unhooked.

Sparky

I am confused by this explanation? Did the borrowed canopy come or risers? RSL ring not on the same side?

Read the article.

Sparky


ianyapxw

Mar 11, 2014, 4:13 PM
Post #18 of 97 (5050 views)
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Re: [ridebmxbikes] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Whuffo question: In the Liam case, what caused the canopy to spin?


Croc  (D 29552)

Mar 11, 2014, 4:39 PM
Post #19 of 97 (5027 views)
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Re: [davjohns] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing at all questionable about disconnecting your RSL for a CRW jump--that is SOP. I've never been on a CRW jump when anyone did not do it. If you have an entanglement and you can break away you want to get away before opening your reserve, otherwise there is the very real danger that your reserve will open into someone else, endangering you and them.

On all other jumps mine is connected.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 11, 2014, 8:04 PM
Post #20 of 97 (4884 views)
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Re: [ianyapxw] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

ianyapxw wrote:
Whuffo question: In the Liam case, what caused the canopy to spin?

It appears that he was pulling his slider down past his toggles with the brakes still stowed (normal procedure) and accidentally released the right brake causing a left turn/spin.


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Mar 11, 2014, 8:46 PM
Post #21 of 97 (4831 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

mjosparky wrote:
davjohns wrote:
I just read the incident report in Parachutist where an experienced jumper cut away, but had a delay pulling his reserve until too late.

As a refresher for me, why do people disconnect their RSL? I know it could be preparation for a water landing cutaway. I can see it as preparation to release if your main was caught in lines, tree, etc and you can drop to the ground. Perhaps if you were planning a CRW jump and wanted the chance to get away from people? That one's questionable.

This guy was engaged in a four-way RW before breaking away and opening. Why was his RSL disengaged?

Thanks.

David

Re-read the article....he was a she and she was jumping a borrowed canopy that was not compatible with her Skyhook system so it was left unhooked.

Sparky

I believe the OP is referring to the Feb issue with the 72 year old male doing a 4 way jump and then deploying his reserve too low after cutting away.

This guy did not have an RSL installed on the rig (according to the report)


The report in the last issue (March) is referring to the woman who was on the female world record tryout. She basically did the same thing as the guy after a spinning malfunction (cutaway and then did not deploy her reserve in time).

A point of clarity: her rig did have an RSL and a Skyhook. She borrowed a canopy (with risers) that did not have an RSL ring on the right riser which is the side for Vectors. (she did not have a demo canopy from a vendor)

Another point of clarity: A Skyhook does not have to be compatible with a specific canopy or risers. If a Skyhook is built into a rig it only needs to have the RSL connected for it to work.

She made the mistake of not putting the borrowed canopy on her Vector risers - which takes a very cautious person less than 30 minutes.

There are many people who will argue that an RSL can cause problems and even deaths after cutaways. Statics over the past 20 years supports just the opposite. RSLs save lives.

Be then canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

.


ianyapxw

Mar 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
Post #22 of 97 (4783 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Smile

I thought I saw him reach for the other brake. Is it he couldn't release it on time?


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 11, 2014, 10:38 PM
Post #23 of 97 (4775 views)
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Re: [pchapman] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

pchapman wrote:
Why not use or have an RSL connected?

Because it wasn't cool or considered necessary, because other experienced jumpers didn't use RSL's.
Because for old timers, RSL's were something optional, that gear didn't have unless you special ordered it.
Because you used to be expected to pull both handles yourself or die, and accepted that.
Because you believed you should try to deploy parachutes when stable for the best results.
Because you want the choice of either pulling the reserve immediately, or taking a delay to get more stable.
Right on the $$$. False pride and over confidence, 2 big killers. I feel most people should use an RSL. I heard one very experienced, very high performance jumper stating all wingsuiters should use RSL's. I was surprised but pleased. There's a lot of dead jumpers that would have been saved by an RSL.

Want to be stable when your reserve deploys? Try putting your feet on your butt and arching when you chop. Not many people do. Unsure


Hellis

Mar 12, 2014, 12:22 AM
Post #24 of 97 (4759 views)
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Re: [ianyapxw] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

ianyapxw wrote:
Thanks Smile

I thought I saw him reach for the other brake. Is it he couldn't release it on time?

What he could have done is, pull the right brake to keep the parachute flying straight and then fiddle with the left brake.
This would have saved him loads of altitude.

But it's easy to say looking on a youtubevideo Unimpressed


davjohns  (B 36948)

Mar 12, 2014, 1:12 AM
Post #25 of 97 (4721 views)
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Re: [Hellis] RSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Went back the article. 72yo jumper. Cut away under 1,000. Likely never pulled the reserve. No RSL installed.

So, I'm going with disdain for the RSL as the preventable contributory cause. I always use an RSL.

I understand the argument for disconnecting when doing CRW. I didn't think about having a good canopy and screwing it up. Makes sense.

Still confused about the stowing of the slider. Why would you stow it before getting control of the brakes / testing the canopy? It makes noise and flaps. Otherwise, it seems to me that it can wait. In the case of this video, it seems worrying about the slider first caused a problem. What are the potential problems if you worry about a good canopy before worrying about the slider?


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