Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
Falling faster?

 


corpkid  (Student)

Feb 20, 2014, 7:55 PM
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Falling faster? Can't Post

So one of my favorite things in the tunnel is to soar up and down very fast (and I'm still very much learning bodyflight just now venturing into basic backfly). I got the basics down, but the instructors seem to be able to rocket up and down and bounce off the net and back up again. How the heck do you make yourself decent REALLY fast (while on your belly)? I have arched till I thought my back was going to break and still can't quite get that super decent speed. I also pull my arms and legs in to make my surface as small as can be.... Still can't quite get that "falling" I'm looking for. Any advice? Going up fast I have pretty down... THANKS!


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 20, 2014, 9:25 PM
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

dont arch with your back... thrust pelvis forward btw

you can drop down fast by going knees low with your knees together returning to a dearched flat position to scrub off speed as you approach the net


Trafficdiver  (D License)

Feb 20, 2014, 9:45 PM
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

IMHO bouncing off the net is not a belly skill you need or want to get good at. If you're bouncing off the net a lot it usually means you're bad.

The instructors can do lots of things you can't do, but its because they have no life and live in that damn tube...AngelicWinkCool

Work on being able to move on all axis of your body on your belly first. Then get faster at it. Then you can move on to your back.

Once you can handle the higher wind speeds then you'll be able to bounce off the net to your hearts desire (and the wall with your head, which I do a lot now).

But first get good at Mantis and be able to fly in there with 3 or 4 people. To do that takes control.

Oh and get out there and get your license. It's more fun in the air.


corpkid  (Student)

Feb 20, 2014, 10:23 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

mattjw916 wrote:
dont arch with your back... thrust pelvis forward btw

you can drop down fast by going knees low with your knees together returning to a dearched flat position to scrub off speed as you approach the net

They keep saying this - but I'm missing it. What is knees low? - the bounce back is not a problem and I'm good with a solid de-arch. Thanks!


(This post was edited by corpkid on Feb 20, 2014, 10:27 PM)


corpkid  (Student)

Feb 20, 2014, 10:31 PM
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Re: [Trafficdiver] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

I"m pretty good with the tunnel. I can get around, spin, walk, go walk to back, and even a little (horrible) sit. I just want to really enjoy the tunnel. I'm wrapping up AFF next week. Honestly - Bodyflight in the tunnel is more fun for me. :)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Feb 21, 2014, 12:42 AM
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is your instructor keep that skill in secrec from you?)
Just tell him that you want to learn to descend rapidly

Yes it's more about using knees not about arching (but arching too))
You may descent pretty fast by pushing only one knee down (it's may be easier than both) but what and how exactly - much beter to ask instructor)


(This post was edited by NWPoul on Feb 21, 2014, 12:43 AM)


ianyapxw

Feb 21, 2014, 2:33 AM
Post #7 of 18 (1924 views)
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

corpkid wrote:
I'm still very much learning bodyflight just now venturing into basic backfly.

Are you sure, the rest of the post you're talking about basic sit-flying.

Quote:
The instructors seem to be able to rocket up and down and bounce off the net and back up again.

For someone with a decent bit of tunnel experience (sitting off the net), I've never seen an instructor do this at belly fly speeds. I've seen them do it while sitflying then transitioning to back. Could you clarify this?

You mentioned you're beginning sit. I assume you've done backfly at sit-fly speeds, just spread and you'll rocket up really really fast.

Quote:
How the heck do you make yourself decent REALLY fast (while on your belly)?

Ok I shouldn't be telling you this... do this at your own risk, it's quite risky.

Don't try to descend by arching, you won't get to descend that fast. First, try to find the range of speeds you can bellyfly comfortably at. At somewhere moderately high up the range, you'll be able to ascend quite quickly. To descend really quickly, bring your hands and knees inwards, such that your hands touch your knees, like this . It's quite dangerous though, as you could easily flip, or worse, be sent flying into the wall in a semi-sit position.

Be safe! Sly


(This post was edited by ianyapxw on Feb 21, 2014, 2:35 AM)


corpkid  (Student)

Feb 21, 2014, 9:21 AM
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Re: [ianyapxw] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

They keep telling me to pull a leg in while on belly.... when I do that I do a sharp leg turn. Which is fun and I decent pretty quickly however, not the goal. :)

They max the tunnel out for my back flying and (piss poor) sitfly. It's the Orlando tunnel and one of the older ones so "maxed out" is about 140mph. I know when I leave a plane (fully loaded) I'm hitting around 130mph as evidenced by the copious weight belts my instructors wear. Unsure

I'm going in for 75 minutes the week after next and will talk to my coach about this. Thanks.


(This post was edited by corpkid on Feb 21, 2014, 9:26 AM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Feb 21, 2014, 11:30 AM
Post #9 of 18 (1803 views)
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

corpkid wrote:
They keep telling me to pull a leg in while on belly.... when I do that I do a sharp leg turn...
Yep) When you leard to push knee only down not a bit to s side youll find how effective it can be for descend)


ianyapxw

Feb 21, 2014, 5:44 PM
Post #10 of 18 (1719 views)
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome (:

Well I gotta say it takes practice and skill, same for flying with one arm behind your back (practice touch position). IMO pulling both legs in is more intuitive but also more dangerous.


Boogers

Feb 24, 2014, 6:29 AM
Post #11 of 18 (1598 views)
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Re: [ianyapxw] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

ianyapxw wrote:
pulling both legs in is... more dangerous.

How so?


ianyapxw

Feb 25, 2014, 2:49 AM
Post #12 of 18 (1439 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you pull one side (hand or leg) too much, you either fly forwards/backwards into the wall (tracking position) or you spin and flip.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Feb 25, 2014, 4:25 AM
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Re: [NWPoul] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

NWPoul wrote:
When you leard to push knee only down not a bit to s side youll find how effective it can be for descend

^ This. It's a little tricky, you need a good feel for your own body position and for the air flow around you. But dropping a single knee works very well (also good for flying at high tunnel speeds when your back is tired). Thinking about your knee like the keel of a boat can help. You can also get your other leg above it, so they become a single control surface for keeping your heading.

The both-knees-down position is even faster, but harder. If you think about it, as you rear up to the point where your (joined) knees are your lowest point, you are 1) exposing less of your torso to the airflow and 2) leading with a sharper point than your pelvis. You need to be careful of asymmetry as it's easy to just hurtle backwards into the wall (the position is quite close to one you use for going backwards in a hurry)... experiment gradually and get a coach to show you.


(This post was edited by Joellercoaster on Feb 25, 2014, 4:28 AM)


potatoman  (Student)

Feb 25, 2014, 5:36 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1407 views)
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Re: [ianyapxw] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

Boy I like the illustration.

I no tunnel, but, cross your arms, like hand on opposite shoulder, knees together, push the pelvis, heels on ass. I can burn a lot of alti quickly that way.

I also do the arms behind my back, kinda wrapped around my rig.
Be carefull!!!
3cents.


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Feb 25, 2014, 12:06 PM
Post #15 of 18 (1340 views)
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Re: [ianyapxw] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

ianyapxw wrote:
...
IMO pulling both legs in is more intuitive but also more dangerous.
There shouldn't be danger in both method (when doing with right instructor/spotter as it should be)


Quote:
^ This. It's a little tricky, you need a good feel for your own body position and for the air flow around you.
That's why Instructor there (A mirror also can help) :)


(This post was edited by NWPoul on Feb 25, 2014, 12:08 PM)


BMichaeli  (C License)

Feb 26, 2014, 1:23 PM
Post #16 of 18 (1220 views)
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure why you are looking to increase your fall rate but there are a lot of ways to fall faster. The basic is to just arch hard and get small (arms and legs in). Now the reason the instructor can do it so fast in the tunnel is because of how the tunnel in orlando is built. The air is slower up top so they use that with the hard arch and getting small to build up even more speed. Now as for the speed of the tunnel 140mph is fast enough. If you at about 130 in the sky you're probably at about 110-120 in the tunnel. The reason for this is your weight. Skydiving gear adds about 10-20% body weight (depending on a lot of factors) which would increase our fall rate by an equal amount. Now for binging a knee down, it works great but you have to bring your knee straight down. Any angle in your knee will cause you to turn and spin.


corpkid  (Student)

Mar 19, 2014, 8:29 PM
Post #17 of 18 (867 views)
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Re: [BMichaeli] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks all for your advice. After my last back-to-back (over a week) 75 mins I learned A LOT! I got the leg drop down (and even the double leg drop - though the first few times I can now understand the EXTREME backslide risk (I ended up standing once - and it was a hard landing on my feet (and the wall) - but I stuck it and walked out (with 30 seconds left in my turn as I was pretty freaked out)... That was an eye opener and got me to walk/stand --> belly --> 1/2 barrel --> back --> 1/2 barrel --> belly --> stand/walk in just a few more sessions. THAT is fun stuff. :)

The display is messed up at the Orlando tunnel - so I can just go off percentage as the MPH is not accurate (said something like 75mph for me at 90%. But I fly 80 - 90% (maybe a little higher for when I try sit).

Another thing I learned is super high speed "dime turns" - I don't know what you call them exactly but imagine being 1 foot off the net and your bottom of arch (crotch) is dead center, drop one arm, raise the other (from mantis) and proceed to spin (of course using a really solid leg "kick"), in place, very very fast 7 or 8 times before I think I'm going to puke and do a hard counter to stop, on a dime, all over that same axis like someone put a stick through my crotch and spun me REALLY fast... LOVE IT!

I always wondered what zero gravity felt like - and I'm still wondering, but this will do for now considering it's in my backyard basically. Now, I'm selling organs for my next 75 minutes. Anyone need a not so great liver? hehe


(This post was edited by corpkid on Mar 19, 2014, 8:49 PM)


ianyapxw

Mar 20, 2014, 3:29 PM
Post #18 of 18 (771 views)
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Re: [corpkid] Falling faster? [In reply to] Can't Post

Congrats, great to hear you had fun! Smile

Continue improving and work towards HD! Wink



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