Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids

 


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 10, 2014, 9:21 PM
Post #1 of 25 (5086 views)
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Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids Can't Post

As the title says, please post any Comp Velo terminal openings that you may have on video. I would love to see openings that do not include an RDS. The rumor is that they open better than regular velos. I have a comp velo 96 on order and I am crossing my fingers that they do actually open better. After extensive research on dz.com and the web (in general) I have come to the conclusion that there simply aren't enough people jumping them to give a conclusive opinion. Ian Drennan stated that they open better than a regular Velo but I am yet to see anyone else post a detailed opinion on the Comp Velo with a standard every day jumper setup (500 HMA/Standard slider).

It's a ridiculously expensive price tag (3300 for a comp velo with a standard slider and the standard 500 hma), but if the openings are really more predictable and controllable than the regular velo..... my opinion.... well worth it..... I've been jumping velos for about 6 years now. I started on a 111, then moved to a 103, then a 96, then a 90, and now personally I prefer the 96 (which I just ordered a comp velo 96). Honestly if this "Comp" version is better for openings than a standard Velo, then why the heck shouldn't every Velo jumper be using it? They should rename it the "Velocity 2".
I agree with compensation for research and development.... don't get me wrong.... I just feel as though the Comp version is being marketed and targeted only at competition swoopers. Look guys... have you ever read the flight characteristics sheet on the "Comp" version of the Velo? Essentially it flies just like a regular Velo with some slight variances to the regular Velo platform. Am I going to swoop an additional 250 yards? No. Am I going to start competing on the pro swoop tour? No. But you know what, It does state that the openings have less searching and additional "refinement" to the opening characteristics. I really could care less if I swoop further....

But look guys, I have literally searched the internet until I reached the end of the earth as we know it. Video of the Comp Velo in action under terminal opening conditions is extremely scarce ( especially with your regular jumper configuration.... no RDS). It almost doesn't exist. It is rare. I want to establish a larger opinion base than what is currently available on the web. I have not yet been satisfied with what I have read. Honestly the only reason I actually put my order through is due to the fact that PD has never steered me wrong, and the fact that I have NEVER had any problem reselling any PD canopy.

Based on my chats with Performance Designs, and my research on DZ.com and the web in general, I feel as though any proficient Velo pilot would appreciate the "Comp" version of the Velo. I am only basing my opinion on professionals that have gone on record on DZ.com such as Ian Drennan. Tell me why I am right or why I am wrong.... thanks.


piisfish

Feb 11, 2014, 12:45 AM
Post #2 of 25 (4968 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

here is an interesting one
http://www.youtube.com/...ction_ref_map=%5B%5D


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Feb 11, 2014, 8:24 AM
Post #3 of 25 (4814 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

The Competition Velocity was made for the competition swooper, and in part is more expensive because the RDS was/is standard on it. The lines are smaller and its targeted to a select group of jumpers. I know you know this, but the pricing is partially marketing.

I jumped a Velo 96, 90, and then went to a Comp Velo 84 and competed for two seasons on it. I never really had a problem with any of them on opening, and in fact, I didn't even use the buttons. It sounds odd, but I actually never really got comfortable with the comp velo, compared to the "regular" velo and have gone back to the "regular" velo 79. With the stock slider it opened pretty terrible. I put my PD 84 RDS on it, and instantly my openings were perfect. I also have jumped HMA lines on all my Velo's.

There may not be much video of the openings because 1) Most folks on a comp velo that I know have an RDS, and 2) at least for me, looking at the opening makes it worse. I start guessing what it wants to do too much. I wasn't even aware you could buy the comp velo without an RDS.

I have about 1000 jumps total on the velo's mentioned above, and in my experience, the RDS improved the opening of regular velo's, while I never jumped the comp with a standard slider.

PS. this was a long winded response to say that maybe the improved openings are strictly a function of the RDS, which can be used on a standard velo.


(This post was edited by jacketsdb23 on Feb 11, 2014, 8:33 AM)


AVDAN  (D 107608)

Feb 11, 2014, 3:46 PM
Post #4 of 25 (4611 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I switched to a Comp Velo a few months back from a regular velo and most of my jumps are terminal.

I'm using 500 vectran with the removable slider (not the full RDS)

The openings compared with the standard velo are incredible! By far the best opening canopy i've jumped. It opens quite a bit faster but 99% of the time perfectly on heading and no searching. Every now and again i get a pretty firm opening but nothing too bad. I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 11, 2014, 3:55 PM
Post #5 of 25 (4599 views)
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Re: [AVDAN] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

AVDAN wrote:
I switched to a Comp Velo a few months back from a regular velo and most of my jumps are terminal.

I'm using 500 vectran with the removable slider (not the full RDS)

The openings compared with the standard velo are incredible! By far the best opening canopy i've jumped. It opens quite a bit faster but 99% of the time perfectly on heading and no searching. Every now and again i get a pretty firm opening but nothing too bad. I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g

Pd told me that the orange vectran lines make for quicker openings. They told me that the coating makes the slider come down quicker. Thanks for posting your video. I'm looking forward to April when it shows up...


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 11, 2014, 3:59 PM
Post #6 of 25 (4590 views)
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Re: [AVDAN] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

AVDAN wrote:
I switched to a Comp Velo a few months back from a regular velo and most of my jumps are terminal.

I'm using 500 vectran with the removable slider (not the full RDS)

The openings compared with the standard velo are incredible! By far the best opening canopy i've jumped. It opens quite a bit faster but 99% of the time perfectly on heading and no searching. Every now and again i get a pretty firm opening but nothing too bad. I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g

I believe the RDS slider is also smaller than a standard slider.


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Feb 11, 2014, 4:00 PM
Post #7 of 25 (4588 views)
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Re: [AVDAN] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you using the 4 buttons for the slider?


AVDAN  (D 107608)

Feb 11, 2014, 4:11 PM
Post #8 of 25 (4555 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Yea


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Feb 11, 2014, 7:02 PM
Post #9 of 25 (4437 views)
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Re: [AVDAN] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

AVDAN wrote:
I switched to a Comp Velo a few months back from a regular velo and most of my jumps are terminal.

I'm using 500 vectran with the removable slider (not the full RDS)

The openings compared with the standard velo are incredible! By far the best opening canopy i've jumped. It opens quite a bit faster but 99% of the time perfectly on heading and no searching. Every now and again i get a pretty firm opening but nothing too bad. I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g

size and wingloading?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 11, 2014, 8:17 PM
Post #10 of 25 (4395 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

jacketsdb23 wrote:
Are you using the 4 buttons for the slider?

No, and my openings are almost always as the video shows. Full RDS.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Feb 11, 2014, 8:18 PM
Post #11 of 25 (4391 views)
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Re: [dqpacker] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

dqpacker wrote:
AVDAN wrote:
I switched to a Comp Velo a few months back from a regular velo and most of my jumps are terminal.

I'm using 500 vectran with the removable slider (not the full RDS)

The openings compared with the standard velo are incredible! By far the best opening canopy i've jumped. It opens quite a bit faster but 99% of the time perfectly on heading and no searching. Every now and again i get a pretty firm opening but nothing too bad. I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g

size and wingloading?

79 @ 2.5


Luck  (D License)

Feb 12, 2014, 6:15 AM
Post #12 of 25 (4258 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,
I owned two Standard Velocities 90ft and now a VC90.
Openings are the same on the competition velocity as on my other velocities.
The openings are almost always onheading and with a nice snivel. At terminal a bit faster then when I do hop & pops. 50% of my jumps are freefly, the other 50% are hop & pops for swooping.
I always pack my canopy with care so maybe that has to do something with it ;-)
Same wingload on the Standard one as on the Competition Velocity.
- Wingload is 2.6. I only use the removable slider (so not the full RDS).
- Lineset is HMA500


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Feb 12, 2014, 7:38 AM
Post #13 of 25 (4210 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Ian, thats been my experience too. I don't use the snaps either.

But I didn't see a difference with my Velo openings and my Comp Velo openings with the RDS. Both about the same.


Zlew  (D 21616)

Feb 12, 2014, 12:28 PM
Post #14 of 25 (4085 views)
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Re: [AVDAN] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

AVDAN wrote:
I'm not sure how much of the difference in openings is to do with the removable slider or a change in the design but i'd be interested to find out if someone has been using a standard slider?

This is how 99% of my openings are http://youtu.be/OdiylMQaC-g

This may not be apples to apples but- I put about 100 jumps on my velo with the PD RDS (slider only). They mentioned that it was suggested only for sub terminal, and I thought I knew better since so many people jump it terminal. Overall my openings were not bad at all, but they were pretty brisk (and i fly camera), and once in a while on the verge of being uncomfortable. I talked to PD about it (Kyle rocks!) at a boogie, and he mentioned that the RDS slider is smaller than the stock slider. I got the standard slider out and measured it next to the RDS slider, and it was (as I remember) 2 inches by 4 inches smaller. I felt like a total dumbass when I saw the difference in size- "well, there'z ur problem!".

I put the standard slider back on, and my openings are fantastic. Snivel is great, and slow slider decent every time. Openings have been very very consistent over the past 200 jumps or so. I really liked being able to take the slider off, but for me the stock slider had terminal openings that were too good to pass up.

I'm not sure if that would be the same for the comp velo.

Z


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 12, 2014, 8:49 PM
Post #15 of 25 (3916 views)
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Re: [Luck] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok so just for example, here is a video of what typical Velo jumps are for me.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze1M8rXknBY

They are "searchy". I've read and read about different techniques (not looking up, feet and knees together, relaxing, flying the opening etc). But the fact remains that most of my standard Velo jumps are "searchy". Not really a deal breaker but I would love to find a Velo that is reliable for formation skydiving. I hate doing freefly or rw jumps and being that guy that wants to track away at a higher altitude than everyone else would prefer. They break away at 3500 or so and I want to track off at around 4500/5000 (not sure if part of this is the fact that I'm tandem guy :) Not every opening is as searchy as these, but I would say that about 75% are.

I have thought about the opening process in extensive detail. I have experimented with opening body positions. I have examined my deployment procedure and yet I can't figure it out. Some search left, some search right... maybe some of this is due to buying used Velo's......I can only conclude that the standard Velo with a regular slider opens like mine does. Every Velo I ever owned opened quite frequently like the video I posted above.


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 12, 2014, 9:01 PM
Post #16 of 25 (3912 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

This was how my Velo 90 opened often.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98O9eqPxF9c


matt3sa  (D 29266)

Feb 12, 2014, 9:21 PM
Post #17 of 25 (3898 views)
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Re: [Zlew] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Another example on the 96 ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE57AO_gyuQ


mx19  (D License)

Feb 13, 2014, 8:40 AM
Post #18 of 25 (3724 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have any videos to hand but for what its worth, I Jumped a VC90 with Orange vectran for half a season then HMA for half a season and now I jump 2 VC84's one with Vectran and one with HMA, I have also used various sliders on these.
The VC90 HMA with a UPT removable slider was hands down the nicest opening canopy i have ever jumped! With the standard removable slider It was also lovely. With the orange Vectran they do open quicker and from time to time firm especially with the standard rds slider from PD.

I think you are going to have a fantastic opening canopy there!


skydivah1  (D 24720)

Feb 13, 2014, 2:17 PM
Post #19 of 25 (3600 views)
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Re: [mx19] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

MX, are you taking these canopies to terminal?


mx19  (D License)

Feb 15, 2014, 8:38 AM
Post #20 of 25 (3307 views)
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Re: [skydivah1] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, on tandem video jumps around 7/8 times every day, with full camera setup.


shaggio  (D 24763)

Feb 17, 2014, 10:42 AM
Post #21 of 25 (3081 views)
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Re: [mx19] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont have any video's handy to upload but I have been doing about 600-700 video jumps a year using velo's. My experience started with a reg 96 velo that searched left and right on opening and I ended up cutting away with line twists about every 200 jumps or so.

I then went to a comp velo 84 and have 1500+ video jumps on it. It opens great! No chops, barely a line twist. It opens on heading 90% of the time. (someone please knock on wood fast)

I also have a comp 75 that I occasionally have to use for video. I have used it at full terminal with both the full rds hooked up and un-hooked. It also opens great. Although it does open much harder than the 84 at full terminal.

My conclusion in my experience is that the comp does in fact open better than the regular velo. However, size and wing loading also have an effect on the openings. The less fabric the faster it opens and the less time the slider actually stays up at the canopy when opening which means less searching.

In reply to:


Titanman2789  (D License)

Feb 17, 2014, 3:26 PM
Post #22 of 25 (2983 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a standard slider on my comp velo 90. It opens way better than my regular velo 96. Switched out the removable slider so that I never run into a situation where a packer has to put it on. I don't trust other people to put on a removable slider. I don't watch my openings so I can't really show you what it's like


(This post was edited by Titanman2789 on Feb 17, 2014, 3:30 PM)


Luck  (D License)

Mar 13, 2014, 10:01 AM
Post #23 of 25 (2161 views)
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Re: [Titanman2789] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

http://youtu.be/N1DrFn3hVb0
Skip to 48 seconds


Jon26  (B 1190)

May 7, 2014, 9:22 PM
Post #24 of 25 (1221 views)
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Re: [matt3sa] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

I have 1500 jumps on my VC79 now with a wingloading that hovers around 2.5.
I use a regular slider with the poppers as i cant be bothered with a removable, let-alone full RDS system (I fly camera).
The openings are the best of any canopy i've ever used.
There is no 'searching', just the normal Velo 'wobble'.
I would describe it as a gentle wobble on the roll axis whilst remaining on heading. 'Searchy' canopies i have jumped tend to move around, sometimes agressively, on the yaw axis. My VC has never done this.
Often people will say that whatever gear they own is 'the best' out of pride and justification of their purchase. I know many people who claim to have great opening canopies that i have watched open in a way i would never label as such.
My VC, and my previous ones, have opened so well there is nothing else on the market i'd rather fly for camera or otherwise.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jul 21, 2014, 7:27 AM
Post #25 of 25 (472 views)
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Re: [Jon26] Terminal Comp Velo Openings Please Post Vids [In reply to] Can't Post

Comp Velocities open MUCH better than standard models at terminal. Replacing the RDS slider with a stock one makes them fantastic work canopies.



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