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Things to check in a DZ..

 

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shaz10  (Student)

Feb 14, 2014, 7:50 AM
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Things to check in a DZ.. Can't Post

Before choosing a DZ for starting an AFF COURSE what things should be considered to be checked with them which are important for learning and safety.


ianyapxw

Feb 14, 2014, 8:05 AM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm also watching this because I'm choosing a DZ for AFF myself Smile.

Do you guys think it's a good idea to spend a day just checking out the DZ?


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 14, 2014, 8:28 AM
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Re: [ianyapxw] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Do you guys think it's a good idea to spend a day just checking out the DZ?

Do you spend a day on car lots when shopping for a new car?

Yes you should visit all those you are considering and feel them out for vibe, condition of planes and gear... ect.

The place look like this? http://houston.skydivespaceland.com/facilities-2/

Or dose the training area look like the attached?


(This post was edited by stratostar on Feb 14, 2014, 8:28 AM)
Attachments: Training area DZ.jpg (300 KB)


shaz10  (Student)

Feb 14, 2014, 8:30 AM
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Re: [ianyapxw] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

lol.. we r in same boat.Hoping to get some expert adviceCool.


shaz10  (Student)

Feb 14, 2014, 8:43 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

the attc pic of the training area no doubt iz scary like some zombie land.does such place really exist...?


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Feb 14, 2014, 9:29 AM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

shaz10 wrote:
the attc pic of the training area no doubt iz scary like some zombie land.does such place really exist...?

Just out of curiosity, what would you say is wrong with the picture? Those are hanging harnesses. They are used for training purposes. They are often (always?) old gear that is no longer safe to jump, and is set up to give realistic training to students. I'd rather see a bunch of "garbage gear" hanging from the ceiling than nothing. They are using pallets for platforms. Probably not the best idea, but certainly workable and cheap and easy to do.
Not every DZ can afford brand new gear and custom made platforms for ground training. It doesn't mean the DZ is unsafe.

And yes, I know where that pic came from.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Feb 14, 2014, 9:35 AM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

shaz10 wrote:
the attc pic of the training area no doubt iz scary like some zombie land.does such place really exist...?


Unimpressed
don't follow the news reports very much.... do you??Unsure


it's always best when more that ONE option is available... ESPECIALLY in skydiving Shocked

even if it's a 2 hour drive, it's sensible to "look around"... and if you're Not all that excited about what you see.... extend that driving timeframe. and though I came up, through Static line , and we had nothing BUT cessnas,,, those are tough planes (imo) for learning AFF... it's easier and better from a turbine, for a Few reasons...
anyway....good luck
jmy USPA # 9452


Fast  (D 28237)

Feb 14, 2014, 9:38 AM
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Re: [wolfriverjoe] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

wolfriverjoe wrote:
shaz10 wrote:
the attc pic of the training area no doubt iz scary like some zombie land.does such place really exist...?

Just out of curiosity, what would you say is wrong with the picture? Those are hanging harnesses. They are used for training purposes. They are often (always?) old gear that is no longer safe to jump, and is set up to give realistic training to students. I'd rather see a bunch of "garbage gear" hanging from the ceiling than nothing. They are using pallets for platforms. Probably not the best idea, but certainly workable and cheap and easy to do.
Not every DZ can afford brand new gear and custom made platforms for ground training. It doesn't mean the DZ is unsafe.

And yes, I know where that pic came from.

I agree, that doesn't speak the the quality of training in the least.

At a fancy shmancy place, the instruction is likely good but you may be treated like a number, they have to make money to pay for all that stuff after all. You also might be treated perfectly well.

I think that the best means of choosing a place is finding a dropzone that is close to you and has reasonable lift capacity for how much they book. Ask about how many jumps you can do, how long it takes students to get a license there and how they deal with prioritizing aff vs tandem.

Ask questions that are meaningful to you. Do you want a place that is 100% serious down to business and locks up the doors when they are done or do you want a place where people hang out, etc.

Also, please note asking online for opinions is like asking 100 different people if Ford or Chevy is better, make sure you've got a nose plug for all the bullshit and a fire retardant suit for the flames.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 14, 2014, 12:35 PM
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Re: [Fast] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I agree, that doesn't speak the the quality of training in the least.

At a fancy shmancy place, the instruction is likely good but you may be treated like a number, they have to make money to pay for all that stuff after all. You also might be treated perfectly well.

As a guy who learned at and worked at plenty of rental hangar operations...yes the quality of 'instruction' can be and often is as good as a fancy schmancy place.

However - even the smaller / club type operations have to 'make money on you' so that's not fair to say as a negative on a larger commercial dropzone.

When I see a place like Spaceland - I think of choosing a restaurant in a strange town on a weeknight, the place that looks great, is clean & full of people MUST be doing something right.

Sure the food may be slightly better, cheaper, faster at a mom & pop diner, sometimes I gamble - & sometimes I wish I hadn't...usually, I just kinda KNOW the place that's busy is a safer bet.

An ever better example is stepping out of the Moscow airport, two choices for getting into the city. 15 year old well used though probably functional Nissan gypsy cab, or new BMW medallion encrusted taxi...

New surrounds & unfamiliar culture...like a n00b at a DZ -

I'd rather go with the guy who obviously does this everyday and is $ussessful - than take a shot with the guy showing 'questionable' commitment to the business. They both may have similar driving skills - but being new to it all, for me... simpler to go 1st class. Laugh

Granted it's not everyone's desire as a DZO to BE a Spaceland...that place is set up to run like a Swiss watch & took/takes a ton of work & very good people to make & keep it that way.

Yes...to afford the luxury of many clean & well maintained turbines, new state of the art student gear, spacious, clean & comfortable classrooms - you run a full time 7 day a week professional training facility.

You may 'feel' like a number initially because yes you're one of many going through the training, but I'd submit that the training quality you receive is no less than at a club with lower volume, and the difference in amenities at a commercial DZ by far outweigh any minor $avings you might see at a rental hangar op.

Also with a larger DZ & more people of diverse backgrounds to interact with...odds of becoming a well rounded student through the license progression is much higher.

I've jumped a lotta DZ's...I can travel anywhere in the country or world even at will - when my kid wanted to do a Tandem for his 21st birthday, he asked up in the midwest when we were 7 miles from a Cessna DZ - with pallets & old hanging harnesses in a rental hangar (not the one pictured)

- I waited a week & took him to Spaceland...nuthin' but the best for MY kid! Wink


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Feb 14, 2014, 1:47 PM)


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 14, 2014, 9:11 PM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

shaz10 wrote:
Before choosing a DZ for starting an AFF COURSE what things should be considered to be checked with them which are important for learning and safety.

Do they drink good beer or cheap shit?


GD64

Feb 15, 2014, 5:38 AM
Post #11 of 34 (6658 views)
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Do they provide guided crater tours?


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 15, 2014, 9:40 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I call foul. You remember when almost every DZ other than those in Cali and Florida looked somewhat like that - Even when the Nationals took place in Tahlequah (Skydiver Mecca); the DZ Operations didn't look like what Steve has built Spaceland to today.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Feb 15, 2014, 1:17 PM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Few things to check when going to a DZ for the first time
1) go on Google map and have a look on the DZ satellite picture. There are a lot of differences from a DZ to another. It's good to have a large landing area and alternate ones
2) prices and specials
3) lodging possibilities
4) elevation with respect to the sea level (smallest elevation is the best because you get more support from the air)
5) staff available (instructors, riggers, coaches...)
6) rental equipment possibilities
7) AAD mandatory or not
8) open week days
9) airplane fleet


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 15, 2014, 3:08 PM
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Re: [BIGUN] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

We've come a long way from the Fandango era... No still today not every place looks like Steve's or Rooks, but ah..... a little um, dusty and dated would be fair, would it not... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. AngelicTongue


sundevil777  (D License)

Feb 15, 2014, 4:55 PM
Post #15 of 34 (6325 views)
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

shaz10 wrote:
Before choosing a DZ for starting an AFF COURSE what things should be considered to be checked with them which are important for learning and safety.

Just let us know where you are, and you'll be able to get more useful info about the DZs that are a reasonable distance away.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Feb 15, 2014, 4:56 PM)


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Feb 16, 2014, 4:06 AM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

attached our info packet about our program.
Attachments: AFF-ISPInfoPacket2011.pdf (699 KB)


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 16, 2014, 5:50 AM
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Re: [stratostar] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

stratostar wrote:
We've come a long way from the Fandango era... No still today not every place looks like Steve's or Rooks, but ah..... a little um, dusty and dated would be fair, would it not... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. AngelicTongue

True.
We both remember when the DZO would get loud about the beer cans strewn all over and we'd have to pitch in and clean up Sunday nights.We have two single 182 DZs near me and both are well kept and have great Instructors... We have Mel Tilley and Greg Gerondale in the neighborhood. Both with 30ish years experience and Greg with a Gold Medal in Accuracy. Plus many more.

http://www.skydivetulsa.com

http://skydiveairtight.com

Both have their positives and negatives.

Airtight Pic - Biggest, prettiest Hangar in Oklahoma & those houses weren't there in the background ten years ago when we were building it.

Tulsa - Rented Hangar for now, but the openest area in the State and Dale's soon to compete with his own new large facility on 20 acres at that airport.

See pics
Attachments: Skydive Airtight.JPG (153 KB)
  Skydive Tulsa.JPG (125 KB)


PiLFy  (A License)

Feb 16, 2014, 3:30 PM
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Re: [BIGUN] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Airtight Pic - Biggest, prettiest Hangar in Oklahoma & those houses weren't there in the background ten years ago when we were building it."

Nice Houses there in the background, & awfully close... Out of curiosity, do any of the Owners call & bitch about the noise?


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Feb 16, 2014, 6:02 PM
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Re: [shaz10] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are in the USA, I suggest that being a "Group Member" of the United States Parachute Association (USPA) is a good basic criterion for a DZ.

Group members have pledged to adhere to the USPA Basic Safety Requirements (BSR). In most of the USA, unless a DZ is following those requirements, there are very, very few rules to help you have a good/safe experience.

For example, there would be no requirement that your instructors have been trained and evaluated. (Yes, some folks will say that the AFF instructor rating program is weak.... but it is WAY better than nothing.)

There would be no rules regulating the kind of equipment you will jump, beyond the very basic FAA rule regarding a reserve parachute. There would be no rule about helmet, altimeter, reserve static line, or automatic activation device.

The BSRs are NO guarantee... but they are a start.

The USPA Group Member DZs are listed here:

http://www.uspa.org/...bid/321/Default.aspx


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 16, 2014, 7:09 PM
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Re: [PiLFy] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

PiLFy wrote:
"Airtight Pic - Biggest, prettiest Hangar in Oklahoma & those houses weren't there in the background ten years ago when we were building it."

Nice Houses there in the background, & awfully close... Out of curiosity, do any of the Owners call & bitch about the noise?

Not that I'm aware of. The airport was built by the Feds back when Tulsa International was built around WWII.
It served as a bailout airport for TIA if one had an engine out or other emergency procedure and remains in effect today.


Boogers

Feb 17, 2014, 10:37 AM
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Re: [BIGUN] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Attachments: Skydive Tulsa.JPG (125 KB)

Um, according to that wind arrow and wind flag, he's landing downwind with a tandem passenger, and too low to hook it 180 degrees...


(This post was edited by Boogers on Feb 17, 2014, 10:39 AM)


topdocker  (D 12018)

Feb 18, 2014, 11:00 AM
Post #22 of 34 (5322 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Boogers wrote:
Quote:
Attachments: Skydive Tulsa.JPG (125 KB)

Um, according to that wind arrow and wind flag, he's landing downwind with a tandem passenger, and too low to hook it 180 degrees...

Or it is no wind or low wind and that is the standard landing direction for those conditions.

top


Boogers

Feb 18, 2014, 2:18 PM
Post #23 of 34 (5255 views)
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Re: [topdocker] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

topdocker wrote:
Boogers wrote:
Quote:
Attachments: Skydive Tulsa.JPG (125 KB)

Um, according to that wind arrow and wind flag, he's landing downwind with a tandem passenger, and too low to hook it 180 degrees...

Or it is no wind or low wind and that is the standard landing direction for those conditions.

top

Well, that could be. But the wind arrow and the wind flag agree with each other (see red circles). The flag is not limp. And it seems like a good idea to land into whatever wind you've got. Or into whatever direction the wind was last blowing, in case it comes back up again. And on a no-wind day, a wind arrow is usually turned into the desired direction of landing to avoid confusion. So I find this picture a bit confusing in that respect.


Attachments: Downwind.JPG (109 KB)


juggalo  (D License)

Feb 28, 2014, 6:50 PM
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Re: [jimmytavino] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

jimmytavino wrote:
shaz10 wrote:
the attc pic of the training area no doubt iz scary like some zombie land.does such place really exist...?
In reply to:

Unimpressed
don't follow the news reports very much.... do you??
Unsure

You all are nit picking DZs here
Some are shiney and bright some are not.
doesn't have anything to do with safety and training. I've worked at both.
even the shiny places have there problems with "16's"
watching the news??

But always check a place out. Be smart and use common sense.





it's always best when more that ONE option is available... ESPECIALLY in skydiving Shocked

even if it's a 2 hour drive, it's sensible to "look around"... and if you're Not all that excited about what you see.... extend that driving timeframe. and though I came up, through Static line , and we had nothing BUT cessnas,,, those are tough planes (imo) for learning AFF... it's easier and better from a turbine, for a Few reasons...
anyway....good luck
jmy USPA # 9452


stayhigh  (F 111)

Mar 1, 2014, 9:05 AM
Post #25 of 34 (4438 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Things to check in a DZ.. [In reply to] Can't Post

that looks way higher than 200 feet and you can hook tandems lower than that, depending on weight and size of the canopy.


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