Spread it around and get his dumbass on Friday Freakout!
disclaimer: the guy who pulled was on the same dive and apparently went low early, tracked off, and was never seen by anyone including the guy filming. guy filming has like 220 jumps, other guy had like 900.
Nov 7, 2013, 2:33 PM
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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Holy fuck, that is terrifying. Can we discuss all of the events that led up to this incident occurring to give new jumpers like me an idea of what to do to avoid finding ourselves in the same situation?
(This post was edited by mcstain on Nov 7, 2013, 2:39 PM)
Nov 7, 2013, 2:34 PM
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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Bignugget wrote:
the guy who pulled was on the same dive and apparently went low early, tracked off, and was never seen by anyone including the guy filming. guy filming has like 220 jumps, other guy had like 900.[/quote]
And THAT is why we don't track off early.
Nice footage, too. Pause it at the point where the two jumpers are closest to each other. Geez, that's close!
Nov 7, 2013, 2:56 PM
Post #7 of 51
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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"Hey guys, let's dirt-dive this!" "Okay, we're going to get 8(?) random people together and try to kill each other" "Sweet!" "Make sure your GoPro is on this is gunna be awesome!"
Nov 7, 2013, 2:56 PM
Post #8 of 51
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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Jesus. I don't even know what the "dive" was supposed to be. During the first part of the video everyone is just randomly wobbling around the sky like leaves. I assume they are inexperienced jumpers that were trying to get together? If so, it is a simple case of people who aren't comfortable/competent enough in freefall to jump with a group that big.
Nov 7, 2013, 3:40 PM
Post #10 of 51
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Re: [zerospinskier] There he was, about to die.
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the video doesn't show the whole dive, just the very end of it. I could tell you what they dive was suppose to be, but it isn't to important. Chuck pointed out the main point on how to handle the situation. If you go low on a formation don't track away early. The guy who did this had enough jumps to know this but I guess it slipped his mind. I'm glad nothing bad happened and it will serve yet another learning experience.
Nov 7, 2013, 4:09 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] There he was, about to die.
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Quote:
And THAT is why we don't track off early.
Another newbie here who never wants to be in this situation! Why is tracking off early a problem? In my untutored mind, tracking off takes you away from the group. Apparently, not so much. Can you guys give a super quick explanation for us beginners as to how a situation like this might have arisen?
(This post was edited by NickyCal on Nov 7, 2013, 4:09 PM)
Nov 7, 2013, 4:16 PM
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Re: [NickyCal] There he was, about to die.
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No one knows you are and you can't keep track of where everyone else tracks. At break off everybody needs a clear lane to track through. You also need to pull at the pre determined altitude.
Plan your dive and dive your plan. But if you go low be prepared to pull low. That's part of the risk you assume and why inexperience matters.
D
(This post was edited by Deisel on Nov 7, 2013, 4:18 PM)
Nov 7, 2013, 4:36 PM
Post #13 of 51
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Re: [zerospinskier] There he was, about to die.
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zerospinskier wrote:
Jesus. I don't even know what the "dive" was supposed to be. During the first part of the video everyone is just randomly wobbling around the sky like leaves. I assume they are inexperienced jumpers that were trying to get together? If so, it is a simple case of people who aren't comfortable/competent enough in freefall to jump with a group that big.
If I were guessing, a tracking jump that went up jump run. It looked like he was well away from the other members of his group. They mostly seemed to be off to his right. That canopy didn't seem to come from any of them.
Nov 7, 2013, 4:42 PM
Post #14 of 51
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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For the low timers, there is another way to get into this situation. Rather than conflict between jumpers in the SAME group... there can be conflict between jumpers in DIFFERENT groups. EXIT SEPARATION MATTERS!!!
When I looked down and saw the distressing image of a canopy blossoming below me, it was due to a novice sitflyer who slid down jump run under my 4-way belly team.
I kicked myself about it later because I had a bad feeling about her in the plane before exit. She was new to our DZ and obviously a low timer. Based on that experience I am now MUCH more curious about what other groups are doing. I frequently ask low-time solo freeflyers what they are doing and am told "I am just practicing my sit flying." Far too often these jumpers don't appreciate the challenges of falling straight down in a sit when solo, nor the need to orient themselves such that any sliding is ACROSS jump run rather than up or down jump run.
I remember the color of her canopy vividly! I will take that image to my grave.
Nov 7, 2013, 5:40 PM
Post #16 of 51
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Re: [Squeak] There he was, about to die.
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wow!!! insane video! glad everyone turned out ok!
ive always thought(was taught) if you are so low that you can't make it to the group then track off till pull altitude. any time ive gone low I would just leave. when I opened I was 1/4 to 1/2 mile away from everyone because I had more time to track than them. if you leave early and still cant out track your mates you need to go get coaching!
Nov 7, 2013, 6:17 PM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] There he was, about to die.
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GLIDEANGLE wrote:
For the low timers, there is another way to get into this situation. Rather than conflict between jumpers in the SAME group... there can be conflict between jumpers in DIFFERENT groups. EXIT SEPARATION MATTERS!!!
When I looked down and saw the distressing image of a canopy blossoming below me, it was due to a novice sitflyer who slid down jump run under my 4-way belly team.
I kicked myself about it later because I had a bad feeling about her in the plane before exit. She was new to our DZ and obviously a low timer. Based on that experience I am now MUCH more curious about what other groups are doing. I frequently ask low-time solo freeflyers what they are doing and am told "I am just practicing my sit flying." Far too often these jumpers don't appreciate the challenges of falling straight down in a sit when solo, nor the need to orient themselves such that any sliding is ACROSS jump run rather than up or down jump run.
I remember the color of her canopy vividly! I will take that image to my grave.
Sit fly can track you down jump run, under previously exited 4-way belly fliers? Shouldn't she be faster falling then belly team? And much less drifted too?
Nov 7, 2013, 6:25 PM
Post #18 of 51
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Re: [ridebmxbikes] There he was, about to die.
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ridebmxbikes wrote:
wow!!! insane video! glad everyone turned out ok!
ive always thought(was taught) if you are so low that you can't make it to the group then track off till pull altitude. any time ive gone low I would just leave. when I opened I was 1/4 to 1/2 mile away from everyone because I had more time to track than them. if you leave early and still cant out track your mates you need to go get coaching!
what happens if you track up or down jump run and track into another group?
Nov 7, 2013, 7:34 PM
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Re: [Deisel] There he was, about to die.
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Quote:
Plan your dive and dive your plan. But if you go low be prepared to pull low.
Clearly the best approach is to plan your dive and dive your plan. However, situation in the video looks like a result of funneled formation with a “camera guy” who ended up above his “funneled” mates . Wouldn't it be better for the “camera guy” to a). make sure that he got a clear air space above him and b). simply pull in place ( as opposed to a 10 sec of tracking into a mine field of his mates scattered everywhere below him).
Perhaps the rule "if you go low be prepared to pull low" could be expanded with "if you stay high be prepared to pull high"
Nov 7, 2013, 8:29 PM
Post #21 of 51
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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A couple of other points that the guy with the camera did not set the finest example on:
When you track away at the end of a skydive, your head MUST be on a swivel. Look to each side, look back between your legs. In this case, the threat was right in front of him and virtually invisible, but he still should have been looking around.
When you open your parachute on every skydive, especially a larger formation group, LOOK AROUND the sky and get on your risers, ready to avoid hitting anyone. Going straight for your slider while screaming 'Oh shit' is NOT going to help you avoid a collision.
I agree he was not to blame. But he can take his own positive steps before bad habits set in.
Nov 7, 2013, 9:52 PM
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Re: [nigel99] There he was, about to die.
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This video scared me for 2 reasons
firstly it could have very easily been a double fatality
secondly because having recently gone low on a formatation and had an experience jumper track over me around break off I could have been that guy.
I had not really concidered the correct procedure to follow until now. I handeled it by continuing to track, and then pulled when i saw him deploy. I got into some trouble about opening low, undercanopy at 1900. I went low becasue I lost altitude awareness ,it was not my plan to open low. In the hopes of avoiding this in future, what should I had done. If I pulled at the correct height this may have happenned
Nov 7, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Re: [ridebmxbikes] There he was, about to die.
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ridebmxbikes wrote:
wow!!! insane video! glad everyone turned out ok!
ive always thought(was taught) if you are so low that you can't make it to the group then track off till pull altitude. any time ive gone low I would just leave. when I opened I was 1/4 to 1/2 mile away from everyone because I had more time to track than them. if you leave early and still cant out track your mates you need to go get coaching!
If you end up low, you should work on getting back up first. But either way you need to stay with the group. If the plan was a belly jump, but you go low and track off, who knows if the group randomly decided to start tracking together for the rest of the jump. You have no way of knowing where they are. You need to stay with them no matter what they do.
The ultimate root of this problem is getting on jumps that are too big and over your experience level. It is more fun to stick to smaller, more simple jumps with goals you can actually accomplish anyway. You will be able to learn and get better that way.
Nov 8, 2013, 12:23 AM
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Re: [Bignugget] There he was, about to die.
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A close call indeed, congrats to all involved for surviving that jump! The points about tracking and awareness are all valid of course. But correct me if I'm wrong, it looks to me as if the guy in the blue canopy already pulled low and the camera guy did so as well. Just as he's past the blue canopy and looks back, you can already see other canopies open way above the blue one. Also, when he's collapsing the slider, you can see on his alti that the camera jumper is already down at 1500. I think that's pretty low, even if he had to avoid the other guy (which was more luck than anything else).
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