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Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise

 

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Boomerdog  (A 66054)

Oct 30, 2013, 8:33 AM
Post #426 of 721 (2844 views)
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Re: [FlyingRhenquest] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had to learn that ya can't stay on the sidelines. Sometimes ya have to show up and get in the game.

I do admire your campaign promises. They are both relevant and the one about the Congressman is well overdue.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 30, 2013, 2:28 PM
Post #427 of 721 (2644 views)
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Re: [Boomerdog] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Just read the lawsuit... It's one thing to type up a list of accusations, it's an other thing to prove them. This is just more of the Gibbsmonster's "scare" tactics.

Is there a leagal fund available for direct donation?


ctrph8  (D License)

Oct 31, 2013, 12:52 AM
Post #428 of 721 (2466 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

That is a very good question! I'd throw in if it meant the attorneys would go after her for harassment or whatever else they can come up with.



skyjumpenfool wrote:

Is there a leagal fund available for direct donation?


Boomerdog  (A 66054)

Oct 31, 2013, 1:30 AM
Post #429 of 721 (2458 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

I have read the lawsuit. Given the fact that it is the federal government and not the state who regulates navigable airspace, chances are the supremacy clause (federal trumps state) will in all likelihood, prevail. But the lady and her ilk think they have a case.


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Oct 31, 2013, 4:23 AM
Post #430 of 721 (2406 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the FAA interventions already, I would expect this to be summarily dismissed in the first couple of hearings.


ryoder  (D 6663)

Oct 31, 2013, 10:12 AM
Post #431 of 721 (2308 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Relevant to the claims of "trespassing" in the suit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights

I got a chuckle out of the article mentioning "spite poles".
I have actually seen these.
Many years ago I was taking flight lessons at 4IN9 (Wawasee Airport in Syracuse IN).
The moron who owned the land due West across the road from the threshold of Rwy 07/25, actually erected a set of tall vertical poles, (like utility poles), in the flight path of any a/c departing 25, or arriving on 07.

Of course the authorities promptly made the fool take them down.


chemist  (A License)

Oct 31, 2013, 12:44 PM
Post #432 of 721 (2180 views)
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Re: [ryoder] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

spite poles?! what a bastard!


BigMikeH77  (B 39490)

Oct 31, 2013, 2:33 PM
Post #433 of 721 (2086 views)
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Re: [chemist] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, because to some folks, having tall and intrusive poles on "your" property is less offensive than aircraft doing their thing.


Boogers

Oct 31, 2013, 2:48 PM
Post #434 of 721 (2064 views)
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Re: [ryoder] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

ryoder wrote:
I got a chuckle out of the article mentioning "spite poles".

It reminded me of the Germans placing poles in big open fields in France to prevent Allied gliders from landing in them on D-Day.


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 1, 2013, 4:55 AM
Post #435 of 721 (1907 views)
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Re: [Boogers] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently many people out there don't understand that the FAA trumps local government.

http://www.aopa.org/...T.mc_id=131101epilot

Quote:
Santa Monica Municipal Airport was founded in 1917, when few structures were present, and it has a storied aviation heritage. In the early 1920s, it was the home of Douglas Aircraft Co., which built the first houses near the field for its employees. Since then it has become surrounded by industrial and office buildings, and more homes have been built near both ends of its single, 5,000-foot runway.

Though those homes were built long after the airport was established, homeowners complain about noise and exhaust from aircraft using the airport.

In a statement, City Manager Rod Gould said city officials have met with the FAA and, proposed possibilities for changes, including operational changes. Gould stated that, The FAA representatives were polite and respectful. But, they were simply unwilling or unable to agree to any changes that could bring significant relief to Airport neighbors. They believe that the city is legally obligated to continue operating the Airport as it now operates and to keep operating it forever because of the post-War transfers."

The FAA has offered options to the city to enhance safety of the airport but the city has flatly rejected them.

I for one am GLAD the FAA isn't backing down on these things. More airports for us to use.

But same story, different book... houses built and bought decades after the airport was established and they're bitching about noise and smells associated with the airport. Crazy


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Nov 1, 2013, 7:00 AM
Post #436 of 721 (1859 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
houses built and bought decades after the airport was established and they're bitching about noise and smells associated with the airport
I was friends at one time with someone involved in an airport lawsuit. His contention (and he was a pilot) was that the difference in traffic amount was the problem. When they bought, there were 5-6 takeoffs a day; when they sued, there were 25-30 or more (on a residential runway).

Multiply that to commercial airport levels, and the WW1 airfield down the road that ends up as an Air Force base becomes more of an issue.

One should be able to anticipate the effects of increased traffic when making a purchase; I tend to think these lawsuits are generally bullshit. But, just like everything else, it's not always just stupid people vs. smart people.

Wendy P.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 1, 2013, 8:13 AM
Post #437 of 721 (1814 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't most areas have a waiver of sorts for home buys to sign?
I saw the one for the Longmont area and that one makes it clear that air traffic may in fact increase.
They still buy the home near the airport.
CrazyCrazyCrazy


theonlyski  (D License)

Nov 1, 2013, 8:32 AM
Post #438 of 721 (1809 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
Don't most areas have a waiver of sorts for home buys to sign?
I saw the one for the Longmont area and that one makes it clear that air traffic may in fact increase.
They still buy the home near the airport.
CrazyCrazyCrazy

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4528403#4528403

I live 7-8 miles from the closest two non-towered airports and about 12 to MacDill and Tampa International.

I hardly ever hear planes flying and if I do, it's cause they're cruising low.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Nov 1, 2013, 9:27 AM
Post #439 of 721 (1788 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
Don't most areas have a waiver of sorts for home buys to sign?
CrazyCrazyCrazy

I have several friends who live near MSP Airport. The Airport commission offered (certain) homeowners new siding, new roof, new windows, etc. All these were designed to midigate noise. The stipulation was, they had to sign an agreement they (or any future owner) would never sue the airport. This agreement went onto their abstract for deed for future buyers. Smile


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Nov 1, 2013, 10:51 AM
Post #440 of 721 (1741 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

I live close to Ellington Field; I didn't get anything to sign. When people are practicing for the airshow, or when the shuttle program was more active, we'd have to interrupt phone calls when jets were taking off (particularly considering that they often fly them in pairs). I'm told that in the 1970's you could get sonic booms, too.

The airport was already there; in the 1970's, it was an Air Force base. But I'll admit that when the pilots are all frisky and doing touch and go's in the jets, I can get sick of it. For me, it's a such-is-life thing. But in this "the world must mold itself to my perceived needs" era, I can see where people are surprised when the house gets noisy sometimes.

Doesn't justify being a dipshit, but sometimes understanding where they come from makes for a less confrontational discussion with the ones who aren't just bent on raising hell.

Some are beyond hope. One can only hope that their next home is next to a Harley dealership Sly

Wendy P.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 1, 2013, 11:00 AM
Post #441 of 721 (1760 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Harley exhaust tones make me smile too!
Cool



I remember a show on HGTV where they were giving advice to potential home buyers. Giving the advice of stopping by the house at random times to get a feel for the neighborhood.
They used a couple who had bought a home on the approach path at a large international airport. Apparently the large jets come in only 100ft or so over the house. "It was so quiet in the neighborhood when we looked at the house!"
Laugh


vpjr  (D 14158)

Nov 1, 2013, 5:52 PM
Post #442 of 721 (1671 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

I also do not like the "We were here first" argument used by either party. It gives it weight were there shouldn't be any. Sounds like a 9 year olds argument. Things change and not always the way we want. I bought my property with an interstate 1/4 mile away. When I looked at it the wind was blowing the noise away. The wind shifted and then I can hear the noise. Sometimes a lot of traffic and there will be more not less in the future. But I dont hear any of it while climbing to altitude in my Cessna 206. One neighbor doesnt like the sound of my airplanes but doesnt hear the highway? I told them they had every right to buy the property before me and control what happens with it. They could buy me out now for the right price and plant flowers for all I care. I have the right to use the airspace just like they have the right to drive down the Hwy in front of my house. We both have to suck up change.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Nov 1, 2013, 6:01 PM
Post #443 of 721 (1663 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
They used a couple who had bought a home on the approach path at a large international airport. Apparently the large jets come in only 100ft or so over the house. "It was so quiet in the neighborhood when we looked at the house!"
Laugh

When I lived in Seattle Beavers and Otters flew base leg past my apartment window on their way to a Lake Union landing. I liked that a lot (especially Beavers with the original 985 radials).

In Sunnyvale C130 pilots making their 3 required landings for proficiency fly over my place descending with their gear down on their way into Moffet Field which is pretty neat too. Base leg on a right hand approach is the only thing which makes sense, although officially they have a left hand pattern there.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Nov 1, 2013, 6:04 PM)


ryoder  (D 6663)

Nov 1, 2013, 7:09 PM
Post #444 of 721 (1604 views)
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Re: [normiss] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

normiss wrote:
I remember a show on HGTV where they were giving advice to potential home buyers. Giving the advice of stopping by the house at random times to get a feel for the neighborhood.
They used a couple who had bought a home on the approach path at a large international airport. Apparently the large jets come in only 100ft or so over the house. "It was so quiet in the neighborhood when we looked at the house!"
Laugh

When I was a co-op student working at General Dynamics / Fort Worth, I scoured the entire NW quadrant of the city, looking for the best apt prices, and happily moved into one just a mile from what is now called "NAS Joint Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth".
Then a tanker took off.Crazy
I was one mile due South of the threshold of the 12,000' Rwy 17/35.
I couldn't even hear my television when KC-135's or F-16's departed 17.
I had already signed the lease, and it was just for 4-5 months, so I put up with it.

I had two more work terms down there, and found an apt to the West which was under the downwind leg of the pattern, but the noise wasn't bad at all, and it was a shorter bike ride into work.


FlyingRhenquest  (B 37920)

Nov 1, 2013, 9:09 PM
Post #445 of 721 (1571 views)
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Re: [ryoder] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

ryoder wrote:

When I was a co-op student working at General Dynamics / Fort Worth, I scoured the entire NW quadrant of the city, looking for the best apt prices, and happily moved into one just a mile from what is now called "NAS Joint Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth".
Then a tanker took off.Crazy
I was one mile due South of the threshold of the 12,000' Rwy 17/35.
I couldn't even hear my television when KC-135's or F-16's departed 17.
I had already signed the lease, and it was just for 4-5 months, so I put up with it.

Dad was always stationed at some SAC base or other. Back in the '70's and '80's, they'd still drop a sonic boom over the continental USA. It'd be three or four times a week you'd hear one of those over Robins AFB, and occasionally as far out as Macon. Whenever he went on alert, we'd all go down to the visitor's facility on the flight line and watch the fighters take off (And shoot straight up at the end of the runway.)

I miss that. I tried to get something on the airport side of town, but they were all either HOAs or really run down. I'd live within throwin' distance of the runway if I could. I can't get enough of that. Airplanes are better neighbors than my neighbor's barking dogs. I could legitimately complain about those -- Longmont has a "nuisance animals" ordinance. But I don't. Because I'm not a stinky little bitch.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 2, 2013, 6:55 AM
Post #446 of 721 (1504 views)
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Re: [FlyingRhenquest] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

Hahn AFB, 69-73
Base housing just off the runway....F-4's popping a sonic boom when they are scrambled to Russia.
Typically 3-4am.
Always loved it.


jonstark  (D 8298)

Nov 2, 2013, 8:26 AM
Post #447 of 721 (1476 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

The FAA has provided "guidance" to communities with airports looking to develop adjacent land. This guidance has no legal basis and is only the opinion of the FAA. It is not binding and is only advisory.

This "guidance" states that it is "an inappropriate land use" to situate housing adjacent to an airport as community planners try to figure out how to to accommodate increasing populations. The FAA contention is that the adjacent home owners will complain and impose curfews and restrictions based on noise issues.

Communities with airports are now using that guidance to prohibit "through the fence" residential aviation or fly-in communities from being established.

Thankfully this has been recently revisited with fly-in communities in mind. The guidance now states that it is OK for fly-in communities to set up adjacent to an airport but that the FAA still believes that to allow the general public to develop housing there is not appropriate.

Just another example of people using their own interpretations of suggestions or guidance as rule of law to restrict the privileges of a minority.

jon


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Nov 2, 2013, 2:47 PM
Post #448 of 721 (1395 views)
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Re: [jonstark] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

In Gander, where I grew up, our house was 1.5 miles off the end of the runway. All day every day, 500-700' traffic, 747's, C5's, DC-10's, Giant Antinov's, you name it, all day, every day.

You actually got used the the windows and dishes rattling. It was so normal, it bothered nobody. And I certainly do not remember anyone every making complaints about it.

You can decide you are OK with it, or you can decide you are not OK with it. Either way, you are right.
Attachments: Gander.jpg (605 KB)


monkycndo  (D License)

Nov 2, 2013, 4:26 PM
Post #449 of 721 (1371 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

You're Canadian. You folks are too polite to complain.


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 2, 2013, 7:26 PM
Post #450 of 721 (1320 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] Longmont City Council will take up skydiving noise [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaugh
Awesome.


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