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Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion

 

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BrianM  (D 661)

Oct 18, 2013, 10:56 AM
Post #1 of 32 (5995 views)
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Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion Can't Post

Hello,

I've got my hands on a Singer 143W2 with a Camatron conversion. I have no idea what the conversion does - anybody know?

Also, it is missing the knob that sets the zigzag width on a normal 143W2 - I assume that is part of the conversion but don't really know. How do I set the zigzag width on this machine? The mechanism that moves the needle bar from side to side looks adjustable, but I don't want to start randomly adjusting stuff without knowing what I'm doing.

I've attached a few pictures.

Brian
Attachments: 1.jpg (189 KB)
  2.jpg (194 KB)
  3.jpg (202 KB)
  4.jpg (208 KB)
  5.jpg (174 KB)
  6.jpg (194 KB)


leon.hill

Oct 18, 2013, 1:30 PM
Post #2 of 32 (5810 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Sew a sample with it, see what it does and then see what the adjustment does. Camatron does specialty conversions for a production type environment. It may do a zig zag on part of the cam, then a straight stich, then zig zag, repeating over and over for what ever application it was intended for...Just go for it and tell us what it does.


Gene03

Oct 18, 2013, 2:04 PM
Post #3 of 32 (5775 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

From the looks of the sewn off sample, it appears to be a double throw zig-zag.


BrianM  (D 661)

Oct 18, 2013, 2:35 PM
Post #4 of 32 (5728 views)
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Re: [leon.hill] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Gene03 wrote:
From the looks of the sewn off sample, it appears to be a double throw zig-zag.

Correct, it is a double throw zigzag (308 stitch) - and I'm impressed that you can tell that from those photos!

leon.hill wrote:
Sew a sample with it, see what it does and then see what the adjustment does.

Yes, but the question is what exactly do I adjust? It's not the same as the Singer 143W2 manual, and Camatron doesn't have any info available. They suggested moving the adjustment knob - but there's nothing on there that I would describe as a "knob" (other than the stitch length and tension adjustments).

Loosening the nut that has been painted red (see 5.jpg) and sliding that end of that arm up and down should adjust the zigzag width (the vertical brass part that it is attached to swings like a pendulum, which is what creates the zigzag). It looks fairly obvious, but I figured it was worth asking before I do something I shouldn't. Wink If nobody knows for sure then I'll give it a try and see what happens. Smile

leon.hill wrote:
Camatron does specialty conversions for a production type environment. It may do a zig zag on part of the cam, then a straight stich, then zig zag, repeating over and over for what ever application it was intended for...Just go for it and tell us what it does.

Ah, interesting. Since this one seems to be a regular a double throw zigzag, same as the stock machine, I'm curious what the point of the conversion is. Different maximum width or something, perhaps?


leon.hill

Oct 18, 2013, 2:39 PM
Post #5 of 32 (5713 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Whatever it does, I'm excited to see how it all turns out.


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 18, 2013, 3:57 PM
Post #6 of 32 (5678 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

BrianM wrote:
Ah, interesting. Since this one seems to be a regular a double throw zigzag, same as the stock machine, I'm curious what the point of the conversion is. Different maximum width or something, perhaps?

My 143W2 is a single-throw ZZ.

Trade? Angelic


BrianM  (D 661)

Oct 18, 2013, 4:06 PM
Post #7 of 32 (5669 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

theonlyski wrote:
BrianM wrote:
Ah, interesting. Since this one seems to be a regular a double throw zigzag, same as the stock machine, I'm curious what the point of the conversion is. Different maximum width or something, perhaps?

My 143W2 is a single-throw ZZ.

Trade? Angelic

Hmmm... I may have been wrong about the stock 143W2 being double throw. I could have sworn I saw that in the manual, but now I can't find it. That would certainly explain the reason for the conversion.

I better keep this one - it's not mine, it's been loaned to me - though I suspect it may never end up going back. Smile


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 18, 2013, 4:24 PM
Post #8 of 32 (5644 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

BrianM wrote:
theonlyski wrote:
BrianM wrote:
Ah, interesting. Since this one seems to be a regular a double throw zigzag, same as the stock machine, I'm curious what the point of the conversion is. Different maximum width or something, perhaps?

My 143W2 is a single-throw ZZ.

Trade? Angelic

Hmmm... I may have been wrong about the stock 143W2 being double throw. I could have sworn I saw that in the manual, but now I can't find it. That would certainly explain the reason for the conversion.

I better keep this one - it's not mine, it's been loaned to me - though I suspect it may never end up going back. Smile

I think there's a 143W6 maybe that's a double throw.


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Oct 18, 2013, 5:21 PM
Post #9 of 32 (5614 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

The 143W2 was a single throw (304) until it recieved the Cametron conversion to a double throw (308). The Cametron asdds the cam on the back and the mis-colored parts. Cametron is apparently the successor to Gelman as the conversion was known as a Gelman Mod. I have 2 of these. Their lift is low but they are fast and reliable.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Oct 19, 2013, 6:25 AM
Post #10 of 32 (5482 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

John,
Singer 143s were made in a variety of different stitches from the Singer factory; not just a 304 stitch.

The singer 143W-SV8 is a 308 stitch machine that is made exactly like a 143W1, W2, or W3.

Camatron and Gellman are two different companies that both made make sewing machine conversions .
Camatron is known best for bartacker speciality conversions,
while Gellman is known best for speciality conversions on standard flat bed sewing machines.

Both companies made the 304 to 308 conventions. The 143W was converted by both companies and I have one of each in the shop.Both are great machines BTW.

The foot lift can be made to 5/8" and to match the sewing capabilities. simply use a 135 X 17 needle instead of the 135 X 7 needle.


Cheers,
MEL


****Edited to add info because flight attendants made me shut down my phone before I was finished!


(This post was edited by masterrigger1 on Oct 19, 2013, 10:41 AM)


accumack  (D 4825)

Oct 21, 2013, 11:55 PM
Post #11 of 32 (5175 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

you adjust the width by the red nut in picture 5 down is wider up is narrower


BrianM  (D 661)

Oct 28, 2013, 12:22 PM
Post #12 of 32 (4907 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks to everyone for all the info. Sorry for taking so long to post, I had no time to play with it until the weekend. Then I didn't have the proper needles, so had to go buy some of those - then discovered the timing was way off. I've never adjusted timing on any machine, but the 143 manual describes how to do it, and with a bit of trial and error I was able to get it running well.

Yes, the red nut sets the zigzag width. The adjustment range is quite a bit more than the machine is capable of - the needle starts hitting stuff it shouldn't and breaking. I learned that the hard way. Good thing needles are cheap! Smile It also explains the small white paint mark that somebody put there - it's right at the widest useable setting.

The attached picture is a quick test with a few different zigzag widths. Ignore the white thread in the bottom right corner, the tension was way off when I first started sewing and was pulling the white bottom thread through (I just used what was alread on the bobbin). The bit that looks like a straight stitch along the top is actually a very narrow zigzag, not quite straight.

I haven't done anything more than a few test runs yet, but so far it seems to be running very smoothly. I'm looking forward to using it for a few repairs this week.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.


Gene03

Oct 29, 2013, 4:34 PM
Post #13 of 32 (4790 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

The attached picture is a quick test with a few different zigzag widths. Ignore the white thread in the bottom right corner, the tension was way off when I first started sewing and was pulling the white bottom thread through (I just used what was alread on the bobbin). The bit that looks like a straight stitch along the top is actually a very narrow zigzag, not quite straight.

AHEM.


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 30, 2013, 5:00 AM
Post #14 of 32 (4732 views)
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Re: [Gene03] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Gene03 wrote:
The attached picture is a quick test with a few different zigzag widths. Ignore the white thread in the bottom right corner, the tension was way off when I first started sewing and was pulling the white bottom thread through (I just used what was alread on the bobbin). The bit that looks like a straight stitch along the top is actually a very narrow zigzag, not quite straight.

AHEM.

No pictures are attached Tongue


Gene03

Oct 30, 2013, 5:56 AM
Post #15 of 32 (4697 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

never mind, wrong post.


(This post was edited by Gene03 on Oct 30, 2013, 6:01 AM)


BrianM  (D 661)

Oct 30, 2013, 8:46 AM
Post #16 of 32 (4629 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Oops. I hate it when I do that! Here's the picture.
Attachments: 2013-10-27 10.31.21_resize.jpg (362 KB)


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Nov 12, 2013, 4:24 AM
Post #17 of 32 (4387 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is another 143W machine for sale on EBay.

Looks like a decent machine.

http://www.ebay.com/...;hash=item19e3c644ca

MEL


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 12, 2013, 11:09 AM
Post #18 of 32 (4306 views)
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Re: [masterrigger1] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,

And here is another machine for those new riggers; Singer 500A.

I have been using this type of machine for over 40 yrs. I once built an entire container with it.

http://www.ebay.com/...sd%3D111195604170%26

JerryBaumchen


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Nov 12, 2013, 3:04 PM
Post #19 of 32 (4209 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Jerry,
That would be the "Rocketeer" as it is otherwise known.
Yep,great machine just like the Singer 401A and Singer 403.

I have each of the above and used the 401A in my earl years as my only Zig-Zag machine. It too has the decorative 4 point, three stitch pattern built into it.
This is one more stitch than the 308 pattern and works just as well if not better.

MEL


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 12, 2013, 3:19 PM
Post #20 of 32 (4190 views)
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Re: [masterrigger1] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,

Quote:
This is one more stitch than the 308 pattern and works just as well if not better.

Yup. I short-lined a lot of ParaCommanders with that 'one more stitch' pattern. Never had a problem.

As I said, some new, young rigger should grab this up.

JerryBaumchen


monkycndo  (D License)

Nov 12, 2013, 5:32 PM
Post #21 of 32 (4168 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

JerryBaumchen wrote:
Hi Mark,

And here is another machine for those new riggers; Singer 500A.

I have been using this type of machine for over 40 yrs. I once built an entire container with it.

http://www.ebay.com/...sd%3D111195604170%26

JerryBaumchen

$200 for a 401A or 500A is way over priced. I picked mine up for $75. Since I have a Bernina 217 to replace it, I am about to sell my 500A to another jumper for what I paid. Saw one recently for $50. If you wait, you can find them for under $100.


jerolim  (F License)

Nov 13, 2013, 1:19 AM
Post #22 of 32 (4105 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

This machine works well with type 5 thread and sews trough type 7 webbing ?


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 13, 2013, 8:40 AM
Post #23 of 32 (4028 views)
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Re: [jerolim] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi jerolim,

Quote:
This machine works well with type 5 thread and sews trough type 7 webbing ?

No, I have only ever sewn 'E' thread with one.

It seems that in today's vernacular, the term 'container' means both harness & container. I'm old school; a container is a container only.

JerryBaumchen


(This post was edited by JerryBaumchen on Nov 13, 2013, 11:35 AM)


jerolim  (F License)

Nov 14, 2013, 2:55 AM
Post #24 of 32 (3930 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh sorry, English is not my mother language,.. Was this container cordura or parapack? Did you connect it on harness with this machine ?

Somebody said that 401 can go trough trouser leather belt,...

I was trying to find out what was this machine capable of.

As I already have E thread machine (ex. Yugoslavian Bagat), that can go trough a lot of stuff, but it struggles with 3-4 layers of PC bridle for example, so there is a lot of stuff that I can't repair with it.
I am looking for stronger machine to purchase somewhere from Europe (to reduce shipping costs),..


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Nov 14, 2013, 10:31 AM
Post #25 of 32 (3878 views)
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Re: [jerolim] Singer 143W2 Camatron conversion [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi jerolim,

Quote:
English is not my mother language

And Croatian is not mine. Tongue No apology necessary.

The container was ParaPack; however, my current machine ( Singer 500A ) will go through 1,000 denier Cordura, but not many layers.

Quote:
401 can go trough trouser leather belt

It would probably have to be a very thin leather.

You have my address. Send me a sample of what you want to sew ( the worst case ) and I'll try to run it though my 500A. Nothing like a little test to really know.

JerryBaumchen

PS) If I get some time later today I'll try 4 layers of Type 4 bridle material and see what happens.


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