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Question about container features.

 


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 16, 2013, 3:03 PM
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Question about container features. Can't Post

So I've been trying to find a used rig for a while and so far no luck. I'm still looking but just in case I can't find anything that will work, I've started thinking about getting a new container with used main and reserve. I know what main I want, and reserve etc... except container. Preferably something tha would be read in less than 2 months.

I've been looking at different container and many of them have different options. I have a few questions: are magnetic riser covers important? What about articulated hip rings? Wtf is that anyway, how do they help I mean? Cut in laterals? Is stainless steel important to have? Kill line options, and what not?

What I'm trying to ask is, what options would you say are a necessity and which ones would fall under luxury? I'm just looking for stuff I need rather than simply luxurious needs.


(This post was edited by Kalrigan on Oct 16, 2013, 3:08 PM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 16, 2013, 3:29 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Kalrigan wrote:
So I've been trying to find a used rig for a while and so far no luck. I'm still looking but just in case I can't find anything that will work, I've started thinking about getting a new container with used main and reserve. I know what main I want, and reserve etc... except container. Preferably something tha would be read in less than 2 months.

I've been looking at different container and many of them have different options. I have a few questions: are magnetic riser covers important? What about articulated hip rings? Wtf is that anyway, how do they help I mean? Cut in laterals? Is stainless steel important to have? Kill line options, and what not?

What I'm trying to ask is, what options would you say are a necessity and which ones would fall under luxury? I'm just looking for stuff I need rather than simply luxurious needs.

Kind of surprised you're having trouble finding something used. Are you hard to fit?


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 16, 2013, 3:44 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I'm 5'10 and 155 lbs. I'm looking for a container that would hold a 150-170, if comes with a main hoping for a Pilot 168. For some reason everything I've found is either bigger or smaller, nothing that would have worked. Well except this one mirage but the guy wanted $5400.


(This post was edited by Kalrigan on Oct 16, 2013, 3:45 PM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Oct 16, 2013, 3:50 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Kalrigan wrote:
Well I'm 5'10 and 155 lbs. I'm looking for a container that would hold a 150-170, if comes with a main hoping for a Pilot 168. For some reason everything I've found is either bigger or smaller, nothing that would have worked. Well except this one mirage but the guy wanted $5400.

Try this too. Seems to have a good rotation of new listings.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SkydivingGear/


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 16, 2013, 4:24 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

chuckakers wrote:
Kalrigan wrote:
Well I'm 5'10 and 155 lbs. I'm looking for a container that would hold a 150-170, if comes with a main hoping for a Pilot 168. For some reason everything I've found is either bigger or smaller, nothing that would have worked. Well except this one mirage but the guy wanted $5400.

Try this too. Seems to have a good rotation of new listings.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SkydivingGear/

Oh sweet, that will help.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Oct 16, 2013, 5:05 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of the things you mentioned are not necessary, certainly in a first rig.

Magnetic riser covers, latest solution to a problem that didn't exist for lots of us. Hip rings give the rig more flex and maybe more comfort but usually don't notice the difference when I go back and forth. cut in laterals latest 'hot' option but don't worry about it for now. You want a kill line but that's the pilot chute and easily changed. It's a part often replaced anyway. Stainless is just for looks, not function. If you jumped on the ocean shore routinely maybe a little useful.

At a high level some of these things are useful. But you won't be at that level for a rig or two. Get a functional rig and save the extra money for jumps.

You want an RSL, (not necessarily a skyhook), the right size harness for you and container for the canopies you SHOULD jump, Bottom of container Pilot chute pouch, kill line Pilot chute, and that's it. Everything else is luxury.

Find a rigger that both you and the seller agree on and have them act as an escrow agent. Get the rig, get money, inspects the rig, communicates with buyer, if acceptable, forwards rig and money, if not returns rig and money. All for a fee but well worth it.


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 16, 2013, 5:22 PM
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Re: [councilman24] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

councilman24 wrote:
Most of the things you mentioned are not necessary, certainly in a first rig.

Magnetic riser covers, latest solution to a problem that didn't exist for lots of us. Hip rings give the rig more flex and maybe more comfort but usually don't notice the difference when I go back and forth. cut in laterals latest 'hot' option but don't worry about it for now. You want a kill line but that's the pilot chute and easily changed. It's a part often replaced anyway. Stainless is just for looks, not function. If you jumped on the ocean shore routinely maybe a little useful.

At a high level some of these things are useful. But you won't be at that level for a rig or two. Get a functional rig and save the extra money for jumps.

You want an RSL, (not necessarily a skyhook), the right size harness for you and container for the canopies you SHOULD jump, Bottom of container Pilot chute pouch, kill line Pilot chute, and that's it. Everything else is luxury.

Find a rigger that both you and the seller agree on and have them act as an escrow agent. Get the rig, get money, inspects the rig, communicates with buyer, if acceptable, forwards rig and money, if not returns rig and money. All for a fee but well worth it.

That's great to know, thanks a lot for the informative post. I'll definitely try and find used, but my time is running out. A lot of Canadians hit up Z-hills in Feb, and if I get a rig I would be able to go. Hence I'm trying to find one ASAP.


mattjw916  (D License)

Oct 16, 2013, 6:45 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just add in that a "fully articulated" harness is more comfortable and if you plan on freeflying (ever) you will want at least hip rings. Cut in laterals are also more freeflyer centric... I also prefer the large style chest strap (type 8) because it's easier to loosen under canopy.

+1 on RSL (or Skyhook), agree about the magnetic risers, and stainless hardware... kill-line pilot chute is mandatory IMO but easily swapped out along with whatever PC handle style you like.

My first rig (an oldish used Mirage G3) was pretty basic and just had hip rings but served me well... it didn't even have mini-risers... Tongue

After I jumped it for a couple years I knew what I wanted and ordered a custom made, decked out G4 (fully optioned for the most part). The fit and comfort was like night and day. I'll own it forever. Cool


JeffCa  (B License)

Oct 16, 2013, 7:19 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Kalrigan wrote:
I'll definitely try and find used, but my time is running out. A lot of Canadians hit up Z-hills in Feb, and if I get a rig I would be able to go. Hence I'm trying to find one ASAP.

Rigging Innovations (Genera) and Jump Shack (Shadow Racer) each make a basic-options container for about $1,500. You get a container that is custom-built for your size and for your canopies, for a good price. My Shadow Racer was ready in 4 weeks. There is also the just-add-harness Javelin option on stock containers, ready in just a couple of weeks, but that will be more expensive.


DrDom  (Student)

Oct 16, 2013, 9:38 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Can someone explain a kill-line pilot chute? Not sure what this is and wont be at the DZ for a bit...

cheers :)


ChuckMartin  (D License)

Oct 16, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Re: [DrDom] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

DrDom wrote:
Can someone explain a kill-line pilot chute? Not sure what this is and wont be at the DZ for a bit...

cheers :)

Collapsible. It makes it so the pilot chute brakes down or collapse. It reduces the drag on the canopy after your main has opened. On larger canopies this is not a problem but for people that want to get more speed taking away that drag really helps. Most people use them after they come off student status. Most DZ's don't use these on student gear because when you start packing it yourself it is one more thing to remember. Some people go as far as getting a RDS (Removable Deployment System) that can take off the slider, pilot chute, and D bag.


RyanFYF  (C 41792)

Oct 17, 2013, 8:43 AM
Post #12 of 20 (2266 views)
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am 5'11" and weigh 145 and I know what you mean about hard to find. I have a vector3 with a PDR160 and Sabre2 150 and cypress AAD I might sell. How much are you looking to spend? This is all in excellent condition and the reserve has 0 jumps and the main has around 65 jumps on it.


jhh166  (B License)

Oct 17, 2013, 9:58 AM
Post #13 of 20 (2204 views)
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Re: [ChuckMartin] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

ChuckMartin wrote:
DrDom wrote:
Can someone explain a kill-line pilot chute? Not sure what this is and wont be at the DZ for a bit...

cheers :)

On larger canopies this is not a problem.

I kind of disagree. I think the constant pulling on the center cell by the pilot chute can make a difference in some critical situations on big canopies as well. I know its not much but it can be the difference in making a canopy collapse in turbulence or stall in certain flight conditions where the pilot is maneuvering close to a stall configuration.

Think of a time you were in turbulence I bet the last thing you wanted was someone or something to start pulling on the center cell.

I may be wrongits just the way I think in regards to collapsible or non-collapsible pilot chutes.


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 17, 2013, 11:24 AM
Post #14 of 20 (2110 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

mattjw916 wrote:
I'll just add in that a "fully articulated" harness is more comfortable and if you plan on freeflying (ever) you will want at least hip rings. Cut in laterals are also more freeflyer centric... I also prefer the large style chest strap (type 8) because it's easier to loosen under canopy.

+1 on RSL (or Skyhook), agree about the magnetic risers, and stainless hardware... kill-line pilot chute is mandatory IMO but easily swapped out along with whatever PC handle style you like.

My first rig (an oldish used Mirage G3) was pretty basic and just had hip rings but served me well... it didn't even have mini-risers... Tongue

After I jumped it for a couple years I knew what I wanted and ordered a custom made, decked out G4 (fully optioned for the most part). The fit and comfort was like night and day. I'll own it forever. Cool

I would honestly love to get something articulated, hip rings and what not even for a first rig, magnets and stainless steel I can pass on.

RyanFYF wrote:
I am 5'11" and weigh 145 and I know what you mean about hard to find. I have a vector3 with a PDR160 and Sabre2 150 and cypress AAD I might sell. How much are you looking to spend? This is all in excellent condition and the reserve has 0 jumps and the main has around 65 jumps on it.

To be frank, I don't think I'm ready for a 150. I mean I'm very comfortable on a 170, but there is a lot for me to learn still. I don't know how comfortable I would be dropping to a 150 right now. I don't wanna rush things, especially when it comes to my safety.

I appreciate the offer, if I change my mind I'll let you know.


-ftp-

Oct 17, 2013, 12:35 PM
Post #15 of 20 (2048 views)
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

Kalrigan wrote:

To be frank, I don't think I'm ready for a 150. I mean I'm very comfortable on a 170, but there is a lot for me to learn still. I don't know how comfortable I would be dropping to a 150 right now. I don't wanna rush things, especially when it comes to my safety.

I appreciate the offer, if I change my mind I'll let you know.

a 170 might fit, and someone looking to downsize might trade you their 170 for the 150...just a thought.


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 17, 2013, 2:26 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll just add in that a "fully articulated" harness is more comfortable and if you plan on freeflying (ever) you will want at least hip rings. Cut in laterals are also more freeflyer centric... I also prefer the large style chest strap (type 8) because it's easier to loosen under canopy.

I think the primary benefit of harness rings is that they make it easier to replace/repair parts of the harness. I think the other claimed benefits are largely accepted without evidence. It is easy to find pics of people flying with hip rings that don't accomplish their intended purpose. Upper rings are even more ridiculous.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 17, 2013, 3:35 PM
Post #17 of 20 (1895 views)
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Re: [jhh166] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

jhh166 wrote:
ChuckMartin wrote:
DrDom wrote:
Can someone explain a kill-line pilot chute? Not sure what this is and wont be at the DZ for a bit...

cheers :)

On larger canopies this is not a problem.

I kind of disagree. I think the constant pulling on the center cell by the pilot chute can make a difference in some critical situations on big canopies as well. I know its not much but it can be the difference in making a canopy collapse in turbulence or stall in certain flight conditions where the pilot is maneuvering close to a stall configuration.

Think of a time you were in turbulence I bet the last thing you wanted was someone or something to start pulling on the center cell.

I may be wrongits just the way I think in regards to collapsible or non-collapsible pilot chutes.

Jumped big canopies with standard pilot chutes for 20 some years before there ever WAS a collapsible option...turbulence isn't an issue.

Heck I've hung all kinds of crap up there...Wink

http://www.dropzone.com/..._banner__105829.html


mattjw916  (D License)

Oct 17, 2013, 4:38 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree the comfort is subjective at best but as Ferris would say, "If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up." Wink

The only reason I really recommend hip rings is that it should let your legs pivot more freely when head-up because you aren't bending the MLW (and it's a little more comfy sitting on a bench in a plane).

A properly sized harness is more important than any of the options IMO... no one likes taking a chest strap to the face/chin on opening. Laugh Or more seriously, not having your handles where they're supposed to be when you need them most. Smile


(This post was edited by mattjw916 on Oct 17, 2013, 4:39 PM)


Kalrigan  (B License)

Oct 17, 2013, 9:37 PM
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Re: [mattjw916] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

The more I see people talking about hips rings the more I want them. :(


Hellis

Oct 17, 2013, 11:57 PM
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Re: [Kalrigan] Question about container features. [In reply to] Can't Post

About the kill-line pc.
I think you should get one if you buy new. It's not very expensive.

Even if a 170 is not a smal canopy for you, if/when you sell it the next guy might load the canopy more and might chose a different rig because yours does not have it.
It's a habbit, you will most likely get a rig with a kill-line some day. If you learn the habbit of pulling the PC while "young" it's probably easier.
A rig that is made for a 170 can easily be downsized to a 150, and possibly also a 140. And depending on if the 170 was a "squeeze" you could get a 135. I would not want a normal PC on a such smal canopy.


The rig is an investment not only for now, think ahead also.
You might not need the extras now, but one day you might regret it.
Talk to people on the DZ who has orderd new gear and owned it some time, what do they think was a good decision and what do they regret.



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