Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Hard Openings

 


Rickendiver  (A 62842)

Sep 13, 2013, 7:27 PM
Post #1 of 11 (2699 views)
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Hard Openings Can't Post

Trying to figure out WTF is going on with my rig. Ive had 3 openings where it felt like maybe one of the risers was hanging up, followed by a HARD opening canopy. The last one riser whipped the shit out of me so much I was seeing stars for a little while under canopy, Pirateand I was lucky to land OK. My Rx Bobsters weren't so lucky, & my helmet has a nice gash in it. Im jumping an Infinity I-44 with a Pilot 168 that Ive packed the same way for 140 jumps with no drama of any kind until this. A couple of riggers at the DZ looked at my rig & didnt see anything obvious. Riser covers seem to release OK on the ground.
BTW-May be unrelated, but this all started happening right after my last reserve repack.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 13, 2013, 8:43 PM
Post #2 of 11 (2589 views)
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Re: [Rickendiver] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

" ... May be unrelated, but this all started happening right after my last reserve repack."

.................................................................................

You just answered your own question.
Different riggers pack more or less canopy into the top corners of the reserve container. Too much - or too little - bulk can change the geometry of your main riser cover tuck tabs.

Quiz your local riggers again.
Ask them if they pack -or less - bulk in the top corners than your last rigger.


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Sep 13, 2013, 8:51 PM
Post #3 of 11 (2571 views)
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Re: [Rickendiver] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Try a medium height (enough to reach terminal) solo belly jump with your riser covers open and see if you openings are better.


Rickendiver  (A 62842)

Sep 13, 2013, 9:50 PM
Post #4 of 11 (2535 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, I'll do that. I've used the same rigger since I bought it new, and this is the second I & R he's done on it. Maybe he did something different this time.
One thing I just noticed on my rig is that the risers, when stowed do not reach past the reserve pack tray. Is that problematic?


Rickendiver  (A 62842)

Sep 13, 2013, 10:12 PM
Post #5 of 11 (2519 views)
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Re: [SEREJumper] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks - But the openings in between the bad ones are all normal & good. After slammer #2, I changed my packing method to include double wrapping the grommet stows & routing the main risers over the intermediate tab instead of directly on top of the reserve risers. Then 14 great openings before slammer #3.
This one nearly ended me. The last thing I remember before lights out was some really intense back pain & getting bashed in the face. Still can't use some of my fingers!


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 14, 2013, 4:16 AM
Post #6 of 11 (2345 views)
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Re: [Rickendiver] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

 
What do you do with your lines when they exit the bottom of the riser trough and come into the main pack tray? What you should do is have them continue straight down in the same direction all the way to the very bottom corner of the pack tray, then make a 90 degree turn in toward the middle of the pack tray, with the left and right ends meeting up in the center. The whole time, the lines are following the seam of the bottom and sides of the pack tray. Once they meet in the center, they join up as 'one' again, and the remainder of the line up to the last stow on the bag can then be coiled up on the floor of the main pack tray. Does that make sense?

Here's why I mention this - what you don't want to do is have the lines make a 90 degree turn coming out of the riser trough and meet up in the center of the seam between the bottom of the reserve container and the floor of the main pack tray. The reason is that if the bottom of the reserve container is 'overhung', meaning that it's not a perfectly flat, vertical wall coming up from the floor of the main pack tray, and you run you lines under that overhang, they can get caught under there on the way out and it would feel just like a riser cover not releasing. On side would be free to unstow, and the other would hang up for an undetermined amount of time.

Even if you don't deliberately tuck your lines up under there, if you don't deliberately route them straight down to the bottom corner, you stand a chance of them getting hung up. You mentioned a fresh reserve repack and being the only new factor, so your lines might be an area to look into.

And yes, you should have enough unstowed, free line to make it all the down to the bottom corner, across to the middle of the container, and then still have a little slack before the last stow on the bag.

With regards to your riser covers themselves, I had some hang ups early on with my Infinity (like in the first 20 or 30 jumps), and this was on a Velo loaded up at 2.5 to 1, and I never had any problems with the openings aside from feeling a 'bump' in the process.

You describe being hit with the risers in various places, so I'm thinking that you're getting tossed around pretty good before the riser releases, and I just don't think a riser cover would do that. With one riser cover open and one closed, the difference in length is not sufficient to create that type of leverage to move you around that much, especially with a rig that has 140 trouble-free jumps in the bag. Now if one riser (or line group) was hung up under the corner of the reserve container, that another story and a difference between the risers 4 or 5 times greater than a hung riser cover.

Quote:
I changed my packing method to include double wrapping the grommet stows

FYI - tighter line stows will not slow down your opening. If the lines are tight enough that they cannot 'fall' out of the bands, that's good enough. As long as they stay in place long enough to allow proper staging of the deployment, they're doing their job. You're not going to be able to make a rubber tight enough to slow the pilot chute, and even if you did, it's the pack job inside the bag that makes the opening, not the speed at which it get's to line stretch.

Note that many manufacturers now offer D-bags with locking stows only, and a pouch to hold the loose, coiled lines that remain. There is zero drag on the PC from the lines as they play out of the pouch, and people report great openings with these bags.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Sep 14, 2013, 4:19 AM)


Rickendiver  (A 62842)

Sep 14, 2013, 10:51 AM
Post #7 of 11 (2128 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

davelepka wrote:
You describe being hit with the risers in various places, so I'm thinking that you're getting tossed around pretty good before the riser releases, and I just don't think a riser cover would do that. With one riser cover open and one closed, the difference in length is not sufficient to create that type of leverage to move you around that much, especially with a rig that has 140 trouble-free jumps in the bag. Now if one riser (or line group) was hung up under the corner of the reserve container, that another story and a difference between the risers 4 or 5 times greater than a hung riser cover.

This is really making a lot of sense - I'm looking at the reserve pack tray, and seeing a few wrinkles in the corners where lines could catch on, where perhaps before the last reserve repack the bulk may have been distributed to more fill the bottom corners. I'll be sure and route the lines as you described from now on!
If I did this right, there should be a pic attached showing where my risers sit in relation to the reserve pack tray. Not sure if this may be contributory to the lines snagging.

BTW- Thanks to you and everyone else for taking time out of your day to help me on this
Attachments: Infinity Pack Tray 4.jpg (45.7 KB)


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 14, 2013, 11:15 AM
Post #8 of 11 (2108 views)
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Re: [Rickendiver] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll pack and jump your rig next week if you're there. We'll sort it out if there is a gear issue. If you don't go next weekend, arrange for me to get your rig.

I could use a second rig for the day anyway Wink

I've looked at this rig and there is nothing obvious. The canopy is distributed well and it's not over stuffed in anyway.

When you're able, I'll watch you pack just so I know exactly what you do. I know you pack fine however I've never watched directly so let's do that and I'll go take a beating for you :D


Rickendiver  (A 62842)

Sep 14, 2013, 1:48 PM
Post #9 of 11 (2005 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Tim!
You're awesome, man


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Sep 14, 2013, 3:18 PM
Post #10 of 11 (1983 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dave,

Quote:
The reason is that if the bottom of the reserve container is 'overhung', meaning that it's not a perfectly flat, vertical wall coming up from the floor of the main pack tray,

You and Ricken both have Infinitys. I am not sure that your 'overhung' means, but the bottom reserve wall of an Infinity reserve container ( the wall that seperates the reserve container from the main container ) slopes upward towards the top of the reserve container.

You mention: " . . . vertical wall coming up from the floor of the main pack tray . . . " We are dealing with a non-rigid material; fabric. It really never comes up vertically on any rig; but the design of an Infinity is that it does slope upward.

Just so he understands ( I hope ),

JerryBaumchen


RMURRAY

Sep 16, 2013, 2:19 AM
Post #11 of 11 (1672 views)
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Re: [Rickendiver] Hard Openings [In reply to] Can't Post

was speed at deployment time a factor? PD has a good summary of the items that can affect hard openings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVAoiLl2B6M


(This post was edited by RMURRAY on Sep 16, 2013, 2:27 AM)



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